Would you drop Hanley?

[chicken 2,624]

18 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

Id drop Hanley for AO and kabak

Folks keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything from Kabak to suggest that he could lead a back four. He struggled positionally and to react against Watford. He was directly involved in at least 2 out of the 3 goals.

[Ward 3 372]

25 minutes ago, chicken said:

Folks keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything from Kabak to suggest that he could lead a back four. He struggled positionally and to react against Watford. He was directly involved in at least 2 out of the 3 goals.

It was his 1st game I suppose, but I give AO and kabak a go for sure tomorrow night. I'm not saying Hanley is a bad player by any stretch but do you think he's a bit too comfortable and think he is safe? 

[chicken 2,624]

36 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

It was his 1st game I suppose, but I give AO and kabak a go for sure tomorrow night. I'm not saying Hanley is a bad player by any stretch but do you think he's a bit too comfortable and think he is safe? 

No. Equally though, I wouldn't want Kabak or Omobamidele to have any confidence they may have dented. Kabak signed on the last day of the transfer window and both he and Omobamidele were on international duty. I think giving them a bit more time to train together might be prudent before thrusting a 21yr old into a position of organising our defence with a 19yr old next to him. It's not like Aarons or Williams are barking out the orders either.

It's more likely Gibson is switched for Hanley at this point I feel.

[Monty13 2,234]

I’m not sure what it achieves? In fact could be immensely damaging. Personally I don’t think he’s played any worse than any other CB and he has much better pace than Gibson and more experience than the rest. 

Defending is a team effort, the goals we have conceded have rarely just been the fault of the back line or individual CB from what I’ve observed.

Much more important we allow a settled pair some games in a run together IMO.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Monty13

[Yella Army 57]

I'd drop Hanley with no issues whatsoever. For me kabak should be in the starting 11 from now on. What I saw on Saturday was glimpses of sheer quality. Once he is up to speed match fitness wise, he will easily be our best CB. The fact that Hanley was given the nod to play left side, suggests to me that Kabak will only play right side and therefore that means omo or Gibson must partner him. My preference in terms of starting CBS is: Kabak, Omo, Gibson, Hanley, Zimmerman. 

 

From what I have seen, omo is a truly stunning talent who looks every bit better than Godfrey defensively as CB has been his natural position for many years. I wouldn't be surprised to see Omo sold to a club bigger than Everton within the next 2-3yrs.

 

Therefore it has to be a bold move and we either play Kabak and Omo or alternatively play Kabak, Omo & Gibson as part of a back 3. Hanley simply is a top drawer champs CB but wouldn't make it into any other prem starting 11.

[Indy 3,300]

1 minute ago, Yella Army said:

Therefore it has to be a bold move and we either play Kabak and Omo or alternatively play Kabak, Omo & Gibson as part of a back 3. Hanley simply is a top drawer champs CB but wouldn't make it into any other prem starting 11.

Absolutely, I don’t think Hanley would a actually make the bench for any other premiership club.

[All the Germans 1,077]

I've never really rated Hanley. He is decent in the championship but I don't think he's good enough for Premier League. I'd rate him higher than Zimmerman (now) but that's it for me.

[birchfest 397]

hmmm quite a split then. I'm quite torn really, like I said,  I think he is capable of being a bottom half Prem defender but he isnt quite up to speed yet. Such a hard judgement call, one that could either be a masterstroke or seriously bad news.

[paddycanary 539]

If we could get some semblance of consistent control around midfield for longer than 10/15 minute spells & better protection for the full backs from the wide attackers when under the cosh, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. For me, a fit and match-sharp Hanley is good enough for this level (e.g. the period immediately before the Covid lockdown & subsequent capitulation when he was injured.) At this juncture, I think he should be starting but that may well change as the season develops.

Gibson disappearing is a bit of a worry - hopefully he feels he has something to prove. 

Omobamidele is a great prospect but it's asking a lot for him to be expected to take a leadership role in a central position at this stage, particularly as the pressure is starting to build.

Kabak will hopefully deliver and may well nail a spot over the next few weeks, but he hasn't played much recently and is also still learning his craft.

Poor Zimmermann just can't catch a break. Since Haller pole-axed him, he hasn't really had any opportunity to get a run of games going and I fear we're never going to see more than a few token appearances from him in the future, if that. Sad.

I liked having one left-footed centre back. I don't see Farke altering to a "3 at the back" formation on a regular basis - perhaps the occasional game or a tactical switch during a game. Sorensen is another option here for spells during games. Similar to Chicken's musings above, I don't think it solves our conundrum of being competitive through the middle third. It could well end up leaving Pukki even more isolated and perhaps leave the back 3 exposed anyway as the full backs are expected to provide the width (see Watford's second goal on Saturday - Sarr still scored with 4 yellow jerseys in the box. Hanley was just as culpable as the rest but it was a poor team goal to concede from the moment Sissoko controlled the ball)

[Canary Jedi 579]

Would I drop Hanley? Jesus I doubt I could even lift him! 😂

[Ward 3 372]

4 hours ago, chicken said:

No. Equally though, I wouldn't want Kabak or Omobamidele to have any confidence they may have dented. Kabak signed on the last day of the transfer window and both he and Omobamidele were on international duty. I think giving them a bit more time to train together might be prudent before thrusting a 21yr old into a position of organising our defence with a 19yr old next to him. It's not like Aarons or Williams are barking out the orders either.

It's more likely Gibson is switched for Hanley at this point I feel.

Yeah fair point my friend, but wouldn't tomorrow night be a good opportunity for them to play against a decent pool side? Aarons is very quiet and only seems to say something when the balls in the net... too late then, but krul is a solid leader, he could be good for the young CBs, as much as I love timmy k, I'd go with Gunn 🤔

[robert choice 24]

Everyone knew this was a desperate problem and yet we go again with Hanley, Zimbo and an albeit brilliant young lad.

 

We needed a tank, instead we got a fleet of Skodas.

[birchfest 397]

4 minutes ago, robert choice said:

Everyone knew this was a desperate problem and yet we go again with Hanley, Zimbo and an albeit brilliant young lad.

 

We needed a tank, instead we got a fleet of Skodas.

Urm, well thats a bit odd.. for a start Zimmerman is now 5th choice so not sure what your issue is there. Just leaving out Gibson and Kabak too? weird.

[robert choice 24]

25 minutes ago, birchfest said:

Urm, well thats a bit odd.. for a start Zimmerman is now 5th choice so not sure what your issue is there. Just leaving out Gibson and Kabak too? weird.

Gibson is a lightweight and Kabak is far from proven.

 

Easily satisfied doesn't win matches. Check out the league table.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,165]

50 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

Yeah fair point my friend, but wouldn't tomorrow night be a good opportunity for them to play against a decent pool side? Aarons is very quiet and only seems to say something when the balls in the net... too late then, but krul is a solid leader, he could be good for the young CBs, as much as I love timmy k, I'd go with Gunn 🤔

Funny that - it would appear that people who work closely with Aarons every day think the exact opposite!

3:14 to 4:01 here.

 

[7HAR1980 102]

Yes, without doubt. 

Hanley gives 100% every game. No one can take that away from him. But, he is not a Premier League quality centre back. The main ingredients a centre back needs in this league are pace and power. Hanley has neither enough of either quality to compete at this level unfortunately. 

What he does have is leadership. But again, you just can not get by in the Premier league with just that.

I firmly believe if we were to play Kabak and Omobamidele they would form an excellent pairing and eventually compliment each other very well. Both have the power and pace needed but would definitely need time to find their leadership qualities.

If they are good enough they are old enough.

[Ward 3 372]

8 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Funny that - it would appear that people who work closely with Aarons every day think the exact opposite!

3:14 to 4:01 here.

 

Wouldn't of guessed to be fair, like you say they work closely with him everyday 🤘

[Jim Smith 2,317]

2 hours ago, 7HAR1980 said:

Yes, without doubt. 

Hanley gives 100% every game. No one can take that away from him. But, he is not a Premier League quality centre back. The main ingredients a centre back needs in this league are pace and power. Hanley has neither enough of either quality to compete at this level unfortunately. 

What he does have is leadership. But again, you just can not get by in the Premier league with just that.

I firmly believe if we were to play Kabak and Omobamidele they would form an excellent pairing and eventually compliment each other very well. Both have the power and pace needed but would definitely need time to find their leadership qualities.

If they are good enough they are old enough.

Hanley is our quickest centre back. I don’t think he lacks power either. Where he does have a weakness is his positioning at times, tending to chase the ball. 

[shefcanary 2,408]

To the OP, yes, Omo & Kabak is the future!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

11 hours ago, paddycanary said:

If we could get some semblance of consistent control around midfield for longer than 10/15 minute spells & better protection for the full backs from the wide attackers when under the cosh, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. For me, a fit and match-sharp Hanley is good enough for this level (e.g. the period immediately before the Covid lockdown & subsequent capitulation when he was injured.) At this juncture, I think he should be starting but that may well change as the season develops.

Gibson disappearing is a bit of a worry - hopefully he feels he has something to prove. 

Omobamidele is a great prospect but it's asking a lot for him to be expected to take a leadership role in a central position at this stage, particularly as the pressure is starting to build.

Kabak will hopefully deliver and may well nail a spot over the next few weeks, but he hasn't played much recently and is also still learning his craft.

Poor Zimmermann just can't catch a break. Since Haller pole-axed him, he hasn't really had any opportunity to get a run of games going and I fear we're never going to see more than a few token appearances from him in the future, if that. Sad.

I liked having one left-footed centre back. I don't see Farke altering to a "3 at the back" formation on a regular basis - perhaps the occasional game or a tactical switch during a game. Sorensen is another option here for spells during games. Similar to Chicken's musings above, I don't think it solves our conundrum of being competitive through the middle third. It could well end up leaving Pukki even more isolated and perhaps leave the back 3 exposed anyway as the full backs are expected to provide the width (see Watford's second goal on Saturday - Sarr still scored with 4 yellow jerseys in the box. Hanley was just as culpable as the rest but it was a poor team goal to concede from the moment Sissoko controlled the ball)

I agree with this as well. The fact that once again Farke/Webber seem to have a complete blind spot over defensive midfield does not help. The defenders are having to face players  running at pace at them and are often dragged out of shape because they don’t have a “shield” in front of them giving them protection, we could do worse than play Normann and Sorensen together for a few games to try and get a grip of this area. 

[king canary 7,606]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Hanley is our quickest centre back. I don’t think he lacks power either. Where he does have a weakness is his positioning at times, tending to chase the ball. 

For me his issues are mainly mental- he's got a tendency to switch off and lose sight of whats going on around him/where the attackers are. At championship level he can get away with it, at this level top strikers take advantage. 

[7HAR1980 102]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Hanley is our quickest centre back. I don’t think he lacks power either. Where he does have a weakness is his positioning at times, tending to chase the ball. 

How do you figure Hanley is our quickest center back? Omobamidele and Kabak are quicker in my opinion based on watching them in games.

I agree that his positioning is definitely one of his biggest downfalls. 

[7HAR1980 102]

10 minutes ago, king canary said:

For me his issues are mainly mental- he's got a tendency to switch off and lose sight of whats going on around him/where the attackers are. At championship level he can get away with it, at this level top strikers take advantage. 

I agree with this also. He switches off, realises he's not positionally correct and then is too slow to get back. The premier league is much quicker over shorter distances than the championship which is where he struggles.

[Luke M 4]

I’d keep him. Our squad is still adapting to the Prem.

[sgncfc 1,228]

I'd like to see Kabak and AO start tonight. But then I'd also like to see Sorensen and Normann in front of them. I suspect neither will happen.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

In a word yes, very good in the championship but this step up seems too much for him at the moment. Perhaps a little unfair on what else is around him. 
 

I would rather Gibson was ahead of him in terms of playing time as he adds much more in terms of distribution than poor Grant. 
 

on another note how is he only 29 he looks like he should be on the verge of retirement 

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

On 20/09/2021 at 16:47, chicken said:

Folks keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything from Kabak to suggest that he could lead a back four. He struggled positionally and to react against Watford. He was directly involved in at least 2 out of the 3 goals.

Hanley was also involved in two of the three goals. Hopefully tonight we see what Farke has in mind for next game.

[Indy 3,300]

8 hours ago, king canary said:

For me his issues are mainly mental- he's got a tendency to switch off and lose sight of whats going on around him/where the attackers are. At championship level he can get away with it, at this level top strikers take advantage. 

Absolutely, no question about his heart and effort but it’s his lack of awareness which catches us out every game at this level.

[Ward 3 372]

After watching that on sky, yes. Not good enough. Laboured, dives in and misses the tackle or give away a foul and doesn't get back in time. Looks like he has lead in his boots as he doesn't seem to jump often.

[birchfest 397]

Yes for me now. I thought back 3 looked promising, though Mumba should have cut out the cross for their 2nd. 

 

Everton I go with:

Aarons     Gibson    Kabak     Omobamidele    Giannoulis