Spending £18m on Sargent & Tzolis is great...but...

[hogesar 9,674]

35 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Farke didn't rate him enough to play as CDM in the Championship.

You feel Farke has got it all wrong and Sorensen will be CDM in the Premier League, without playing there for us up til now?

You feel that Farke is entirely right to not give him experience playing in that role, just throwing him in the deep end on Saturday?

If he thought Sorensen was any good, he'd have played him.

I mean, we needed him to fill a LB problem for a period of time, and we had signed a specialist DM in Skipp who we had probably agreed playing time with to come to us in the first place.

[BobLoz3 492]

... have you ever tried marmite with cream cheese on toast? 

 

Oh, sorry, I thought that's what we were doing... My bad 

[king canary 7,607]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I mean, we needed him to fill a LB problem for a period of time, and we had signed a specialist DM in Skipp who we had probably agreed playing time with to come to us in the first place.

Also I think Sorenson had a pre season disrupted by injury when he was signed too- he was in some ways unlucky that by the time he was fit enough to contribute, Skipp had nailed down the CDM position and went pretty much the entire season without injury or suspension, meaning Sorenson never really got a shot. 

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

Sorensen isn't particularly physical, quick or aggressive. He's calm and composed on the ball and can obviously cover a number of positions but I can't see him being the PL defensive midfielder.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

16 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Sorensen isn't particularly physical, quick or aggressive. He's calm and composed on the ball and can obviously cover a number of positions but I can't see him being the PL defensive midfielder.

💅🔨

[AJ 1,221]

The problem is Skipp was just a little TOO good, that makes him both impossible to get back, and impossible to replace on a limited budget with a like for like player. The fact we haven't signed anyone to play that position (Gilmour, maybe?) gives me hope we're still in talks to get him back but it is hard to say just how likely that appears to be. If Farke was that worried about the position we would have splashed some serious cash to sign someone there. The reality is with Buendia going and our lack of striking options other than Pukki we needed to spend in those areas and unfortuantely those kinds of player need sizeable fee's, on that merit I feel we have reinvested the Buendia money very well in Tzolis, Sargent and Rashica, they are 3 good investments. We do still look a bit weak in the middle, but we've still got a loan spot to use and we must have a little bit of cash left over

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

Gilmour isn't like Skipp at all. The midfield being a 3 allows us to not have an out and out defensive midfieler. We basically have Gilmour + 2 busy allrounder types. I would imagine we're still planning on getting one for when we want to play with a 2.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

36 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Sorensen isn't particularly physical, quick or aggressive. He's calm and composed on the ball and can obviously cover a number of positions but I can't see him being the PL defensive midfielder.

Dunno there. 11 yellow cards in his last season with Esbjerg tells me that if you ask him to put a foot in, he will. Alternatively, if you ask him to stand his ground and just jockey the man on the ball, he'll do that as well.

Denmark - J. Sørensen - Profile with news, career statistics and history - Soccerway

Edited August 13, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[chicken 2,625]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

What is 'known' is that a midfield containing any/both McLean and Rupp will be completely overrun , as it was 2 seasons ago, not sure if Gilmour has the physique to be that kind of midfielder.

Rupp and McLean didn't play CM together two seasons ago. Rupp arrived in January and played his first game at least, on the wing.

Our CM back then included Tettey who you'd oddly rather have.

Gilmour has a similar physique to Skipp. Skipp doesn't have the frame of Sorensen - he's not as tall for starters.

I really do get baffled by people going on about physique when Skipp is hardly Bradly Johnson in stature. He's not even close to 6'. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,759]

10 minutes ago, chicken said:

Rupp and McLean didn't play CM together two seasons ago. Rupp arrived in January and played his first game at least, on the wing.

Our CM back then included Tettey who you'd oddly rather have.

Gilmour has a similar physique to Skipp. Skipp doesn't have the frame of Sorensen - he's not as tall for starters.

I really do get baffled by people going on about physique when Skipp is hardly Bradly Johnson in stature. He's not even close to 6'. 

Not just about height...Gilmour is nothing like Skipp

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

Skipp was quick, strong and has more defensive awareness than any of our other options. Gilmour is a straight up playmaker, he won't shirk challenges but he's no way near as powerful a runner as Skipp.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Gilmour's basically a Leitner upgrade. Still suspect people are sleeping on Lungi. He should be close to getting the DM slot tomorrow. I actually hope he does - he's earned a crack in what he considers his best position. And if anyone's nerveless and composed enough to do a very sound job on a very good player in Bryan Mbeumo in a good Brentford side on his debut - playing out of position - then I have complete faith he'll be a diligent and focused presence in his preferred position, regardless of opposition.

Whether he proves to be good enough is another thing entirely, but damn, he's deserved a go.

[chicken 2,625]

24 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Not just about height...Gilmour is nothing like Skipp

In what way? You were talking about physique.

[GenerationA47 752]

8 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Gilmour's basically a Leitner upgrade. Still suspect people are sleeping on Lungi. He should be close to getting the DM slot tomorrow. I actually hope he does - he's earned a crack in what he considers his best position. And if anyone's nerveless and composed enough to do a very sound job on a very good player in Bryan Mbeumo in a good Brentford side on his debut - playing out of position - then I have complete faith he'll be a diligent and focused presence in his preferred position, regardless of opposition.

Whether he proves to be good enough is another thing entirely, but damn, he's deserved a go.

These are fair points.

Tomorrow would certainly be the definition of the deep end but- we have no other and it looks like it’s going to be another season of mix n match to some extent.

  Hopefully he - and all the rest - are fit and well now.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

4 hours ago, Canary Jedi said:

Probably won’t happen until near deadline day, just the speed the market is moving unfortunately

Yep Webber said this quite a while ago but it seems to have passed many people by. Don't be surprised if the last two or three signings are right at the last minute. 

As for Sorensen, it's not as black and white as some are making out. He is a fairly young and developing member of the squad whose opportunities in midfield were limited last season for various reasons but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he will play a role until a signing is made. I think he is behind others in the pecking order but he might well be utilised due his defensive capabilities.

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

Skipp was quick, strong and has more defensive awareness than any of our other options

Skipp, to me, had that more Rugby based physicality - not a massive guy, but you could see he was solid.  And remember him in the Stoke match getting head injury - stood up and smiled like there was nothing wrong, but you could see he was out of it and medics had to get him down again.

Tough **** who's willing to put his body on the line no matter what, huge determination and heart too.  You can be 7 foot tall and a push over if you're not willing to take a knock.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Google Bot

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Ward 3 said:

Don't like Billing personally. Don't think he's all that. Grimes has been pinged around a bit on here. I dont think mowatt was a bad player too but he's left Barnsley and he's now at either Bournemouth or WBA, I guess WBA and followed the gaffer

Grimes and Mowatt are not defensive midfielders, Grimes is more of a box-to-box like Howson and Mowatt is a playmaker.

We don't need Grimes because we have Melou and McLean and we don't need Mowatt because we have Gilmour.

 

[Mason 47 1,379]

Pretty confident that we are contentedly sat waiting for the DM pieces to fall into place for us, and it'll progress when the market moves a bit more. 

'RE Lungi, I think it's pertinent to look at the media content around Omo (we would like a Cb but Andy is looking suitable) compared to the centre mid speculation (we need another defensive cm option)

[Monty13 2,234]

4 hours ago, Indy said:

Sorensen is certainly decent enough, proved he is good enough to warrant a go.

If he has you’d think he would have started in that position in pre-season at least once.

[chicken 2,625]

Yup, and the club have said they are not interested in adding more players and certainly don't want a DM or a CB. Nope, not at all.

[Ward 3 372]

22 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Grimes and Mowatt are not defensive midfielders, Grimes is more of a box-to-box like Howson and Mowatt is a playmaker.

We don't need Grimes because we have Melou and McLean and we don't need Mowatt because we have Gilmour.

 

Yes but we only have gilmour for 1 season. Will be in the same scenario as we are now when skipps gone. Did I say we should get either player? No. I said grimes has been mentioned on here, and said I like mowatt.

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

33 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Skipp, to me, had that more Rugby based physicality - not a massive guy, but you could see he was solid.  And remember him in the Stoke match getting head injury - stood up and smiled like there was nothing wrong, but you could see he was out of it and medics had to get him down again.

Tough **** who's willing to put his body on the line no matter what, huge determination and heart too.  You can be 7 foot tall and a push over if you're not willing to take a knock.

Spot on, fantastic player.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

19 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

Yes but we only have gilmour for 1 season. Will be in the same scenario as we are now when skipps gone. Did I say we should get either player? No. I said grimes has been mentioned on here, and said I like mowatt.

Right well stay on topic then, what defensive midfielder's do you like?

For me, if its not Skipp then we should be looking for the new Tettey in the bankrupt French league.

[Petriix 2,835]

You can't read anything into our pre-season due to the Covid outbreak; we are obviously behind where we'd want to be but you can only hope that training has given them the opportunity to figure out how to approach these opening games. I would go so far as to say that our first two games are amongst the least important in our campaign in terms of results and we should really be focussing more on getting the new players embedded in our system and getting everyone up to speed. If we pick up a point or two then it's a bonus.

The Bournemouth cup game is also pretty inconsequential and I see it more as a chance to get the finishing touches to our preparations before the real season starts against Leicester then Arsenal - still tough games, but we'll be better prepared by then. So we've got three matches in which to make up for the disjointed pre-season and to finalise roles and positions.

We still really don't know how Sorensen would fair at CDM because he's not really played there for us. He might well not start, but I could see him being used from the bench if we need an extra player in there, but he's also shown great versatility in the positions he's played. I think he's better than many give him credit for and he will likely continue to improve.

Gilmour is also a bit of an unknown. everyone is clamouring for Skipp or decrying our failure to replace him. But let's not forget that he was a massive unknown at the start of last season and it's arguable that only through training and playing with us did he actually develop to the level he had reached by the end of the season. There is nothing to stop Gilmour following a similar trajectory and adding some of that steel to his game. He obviously has a great footballing brain (similar to Skipp in that regard) so he might also surprise one or two with how he develops.

Arguably centre back is our biggest area of concern, given the previous injuries suffered by the players currently pencilled in for the starting berths. I have been a massive Zimmerman fan, but he appears to be a shadow of his former self right now. I'm not worried about Omobamidele but I am concerned that we are a couple of injuries away from  Zimmerman starting and having no backup. We really need to sign someone here.

[Haus 259]

15 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Right well stay on topic then, what defensive midfielder's do you like?

For me, if its not Skipp then we should be looking for the new Tettey in the bankrupt French league.

Cant be that Bankrupt if PSG signed Messi 

[Monty13 2,234]

4 minutes ago, Haus said:

Cant be that Bankrupt if PSG signed Messi 

PSG aren’t bankrupt, the rest of the league is.

[Ward 3 372]

59 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Right well stay on topic then, what defensive midfielder's do you like?

For me, if its not Skipp then we should be looking for the new Tettey in the bankrupt French league.

Calm down. I think we'll get kante

[Newtopia 517]

7 hours ago, king canary said:

Generally clubs don't sell players they gave a contract extension to only a couple of months earlier.

True, I just think he is 23 now so he must want to be playing regularly in midfield, so he has the most successful career he can, rather than being a fans favourite who provides back up at left back.

[king canary 7,607]

5 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

True, I just think he is 23 now so he must want to be playing regularly in midfield, so he has the most successful career he can, rather than being a fans favourite who provides back up at left back.

Yeah but you'd imagine he's had conversations with Farke and Webber about his playing time before he agreed his new deal.

I'm not sure I see him starting week in week out but I think he may get more game time than some think. 

[Newtopia 517]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Yeah but you'd imagine he's had conversations with Farke and Webber about his playing time before he agreed his new deal.

I'm not sure I see him starting week in week out but I think he may get more game time than some think. 

True, and I think you are right they will have talked, yet at the moment he is clearly behind, Gilmour, Lee’s-Melius, McLean, Rupp, and Dowell, for those central areas, and it is hard to see exactly how he fits into the jigsaw.