Erickson medical assistance

[pete 319]

Good news he is in hospital.

Given medical assistance looked to be extensive CPR for many minutes.  Plenty of chest depressions from staff however no sign of a defibrillator for up to a number of minutes after collapse, not such good news.  

[Canary Jedi 579]

Great to hear he is recovering. Doesn’t matter which player or which club, to happen to anyone is tragic. Wishing him a speedy recovery 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

2 hours ago, pete said:

Good news he is in hospital.

Given medical assistance looked to be extensive CPR for many minutes.  Plenty of chest depressions from staff however no sign of a defibrillator for up to a number of minutes after collapse, not such good news.  

 

He may not have had a shockable rhythm until you saw the defibrillation. I wouldnt criticise the medical assistance I would hail it. He is alive because of it. 100% successful outcome

[Ian 1,129]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

He may not have had a shockable rhythm until you saw the defibrillation. I wouldnt criticise the medical assistance I would hail it. He is alive because of it. 100% successful outcome

Absolutely agree. Clearly saved a life, so seems churlish to criticise as a layman.

[Evil Monkey 52]

Defibs are not to restart the heart like the telly would have you believe, but to shock the heart into returning to a regular rhythm. That's how I understand it, anyway. By all accounts the medical assistance was top class, as was the quick reactions of his team mates and Anthony Taylor. 

[hogesar 9,673]

3 minutes ago, Evil Monkey said:

Defibs are not to restart the heart like the telly would have you believe, but to shock the heart into returning to a regular rhythm. That's how I understand it, anyway. By all accounts the medical assistance was top class, as was the quick reactions of his team mates and Anthony Taylor. 

All fully deserving of praise and credit. Ironically perhaps, a football stadium is probably one of the best places for such an unfortunate event. The wait for medical help at your own home for example, would never be so quick for obvious reasons!

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

8 minutes ago, Evil Monkey said:

Defibs are not to restart the heart like the telly would have you believe, but to shock the heart into returning to a regular rhythm. That's how I understand it, anyway. By all accounts the medical assistance was top class, as was the quick reactions of his team mates and Anthony Taylor. 

Yes, it is a de-fibrillator (ie to stop fibrillation) - for use when the heart has gone into a shockable rhythm (Ventricular Fibrillation or Ventricular Tachycardia).

Cardiac arrest is either VF/VT or a non-shockable rhythm (PEA or Asystole) - If non-shockable the goal is CPR and drugs until a shockable rhythm is achieved or spontaneous circulation returns.

If the heart is in a shockable rhythm, ie fibrillating, then shocking it is to take it out of fibrillation - reset if you like into sinus (normal) rhythm

Edited June 12, 2021 by The Great Mass Debater

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

All fully deserving of praise and credit. Ironically perhaps, a football stadium is probably one of the best places for such an unfortunate event. The wait for medical help at your own home for example, would never be so quick for obvious reasons!

When I was working in a hospital in New Zealand we had a patient who went into cardiac arrest halway across a pedestrian crossing. This particular patient was extremely lucky that the person behind them just happened to be one of our Consultant Cardiologists. True story

[duke63 542]

There is an app you can download that will tell you where  the nearest defib to you is. Download it. It might save someone's life one day.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

5 minutes ago, duke63 said:

There is an app you can download that will tell you where  the nearest defib to you is. Download it. It might save someone's life one day.

Dont try to get one from a GP surgery however. There was a spate of people running into surgeries and saying there was someone needing assistance and they needed the defib then nicking them so they wont release them. They will of course send a medic out to assist any emergency event

Edited June 12, 2021 by The Great Mass Debater

[Mello Yello 2,293]

Haven't ventured into the City much - do they still use the paramedics on a pushbike?.....Ideal for the City centre......

[AJ 1,221]

I thought the same to begin with but apparently it's fairly normal to continue with CPR for as long as it takes to get to a defibable state. It's unclear whether they used the defibrillator or not, there was one on one of the stretcher guys backs so it was there after the first few minutes

[Evil Monkey 52]

Just now, AJ said:

I thought the same to begin with but apparently it's fairly normal to continue with CPR for as long as it takes to get to a defibable state. It's unclear whether they used the defibrillator or not, there was one on one of the stretcher guys backs so it was there after the first few minutes

It's one of those things that needs to be requested or obtained at the immediate outset of any medical emergency, regardless of whether or not its required at that moment or is used at all. Every school, business, bus stop, phone booth, church, etc should have one and it needs to become more common that people know where their nearest one is, because today had shown that you just never know... 

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

10 minutes ago, AJ said:

I thought the same to begin with but apparently it's fairly normal to continue with CPR for as long as it takes to get to a defibable state. It's unclear whether they used the defibrillator or not, there was one on one of the stretcher guys backs so it was there after the first few minutes

I’m pretty sure it was used when the cameras were up close and personal. There was one rapid chest movement which suggests so. 

[Greavsy 2,415]

19 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I’m pretty sure it was used when the cameras were up close and personal. There was one rapid chest movement which suggests so. 

Agreed, he was definitely "shocked" when on the pitch. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

22 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Yes, it is a de-fibrillator (ie to stop fibrillation) - for use when the heart has gone into a shockable rhythm (Ventricular Fibrillation or Ventricular Tachycardia).

Cardiac arrest is either VF/VT or a non-shockable rhythm (PEA or Asystole) - If non-shockable the goal is CPR and drugs until a shockable rhythm is achieved or spontaneous circulation returns.

If the heart is in a shockable rhythm, ie fibrillating, then shocking it is to take it out of fibrillation - reset if you like into sinus (normal) rhythm

Yep. I did an Emergency first aid course a couple of years ago, some of the defib machines will actually speak to you and say to do the compressions rather than shock someone if they don't detect a heartbeat once you've attached the pads (which went nowhere near where I would have guessed they went, BTW. One goes on the side and the other on the opposite chest to make the shock go through the heart).

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

Just to add to this, if anyone ever has to use a defib, even if you haven’t been on a first aid course, then it is very explanatory, just do what it tells you.

[York Canary 28]

Don’t know what it’s like down there, but up here if you call 999 and there is a comminity defib within a certain distance of the patient’s location (200m if I’ve remembered correctly) and they are likely to need one then you will be given the code to unlock the cabinet and retrieve the defib.
We have them in most large public places like the supermarkets, train stations etc. and on the outside of our ambulance stations, GP surgeries and so on. 
 

One brilliant scheme that was started here and is now nationally undertaken (and has been internationally run) is Restart a Heart Day.. an annual event where secondary school pupils from participating schools are taught CPR by volunteers. The long-term hope is that CPR/emergency first aid will become a normal part of the curriculum. Norway has traditionally been the most successful place for out-of-hospital cardiac arrest survival and this is partly due to a high rate of bystander CPR, which is what we’re trying to replicate here. 

Definitely worth learning if you can and much less intimidating than you think.

I will say that if you ring 999 you will be guided through CPR regardless (including how to use a defib, although as stated above they usually speak to you and tell you what to do), but it can never hurt to have that knowledge already and to have simulated that scenario before you may have to face it. 

[York Canary 28]

21 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Agreed, he was definitely "shocked" when on the pitch. 

Definitely saw this and today the team doctor stated one shock was delivered successfully

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

Absolute ****ing scum!!!!! 

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1449447/buxted-football-club-euros-vandal-defibrillator-kit-christian-eriksen-appeal-ont

[Upo 91]

Either it was ventricular tachycardia that turned into ventricular fibrillation or normal rhytm straight to fibrillation. It means chaotic heart muscle activation which is unable to pump blood efficiently. Shocking it stops that chaotic activity, and the hope is that heart picks up its normal sinus rhytm, which is an orderly activation that makes heart muscle contract "in order" and blood flow starts. For a "healthy" heart, a single jolt often is enough. It does not mean starting up a stopped heart. It means stopping a chaotic electrical activation in heart. That allows normal rhytm to resume. Meanwhile CPR is performed to keep circulation going. CPR is the key to survival without brain damage.

Should Eriksen been defibrillated within 2 minutes or so, he probably could've walked off the field himself. CPR may cause ribs to crack, but he is a strong athlete.

Resuscitation took considerably longer to start than optimal. To my eyes it looked 1.5 to 2 minutes. The medical staff should have sprinted like Usain Bolt when the player collapsed and did not move. At the latest when the players started waving in distress. Seconds count. They were not prepared. Defibrillator took minutes to arrive. However, once they knew what was happening, they did ok with CPR and that bought them time. But why on Earth did they have no a defa unit with them or near them? They should be all over the place in a huge venue like the stadium.

We can thank our lucky stars it was under 20C and the first half of a game Denmark was dominating and in control of the ball.  Eriksen hadn't run a long stretch before collapsing. That would have meant high body temperature and exhaustion of O2 in blood -> It would likely result in serious brain damage in couple minutes.

We do not know what the extent of damage caused by lack of circulation is, but him regaining conciousness in 1st jolt and sending txt messages hours after is very encouraging.

The situation must have been very traumatic and distressing to his teammates. CPR and defibrillation can be very scary looking even without it being your friend there. The players performed admirably given the situation and even managed to play competitively afterwards. It was the wrong decision to play, but that was not the players' fault. They were given terrible options. The organizers should've rescheduled completely.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Upo

[Pete Raven 276]

On 12/06/2021 at 22:51, Mello Yello said:

Haven't ventured into the City much - do they still use the paramedics on a pushbike?.....Ideal for the City centre......

They returned last summer only to be ditched a few months later given lockdown meant footfall in the city centre was very low.

They are returning this summer, initially in tourist hotspots on the north Norfolk coast.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

4 hours ago, Upo said:

Either it was ventricular tachycardia that turned into ventricular fibrillation or normal rhytm straight to fibrillation. It means chaotic heart muscle activation which is unable to pump blood efficiently. Shocking it stops that chaotic activity, and the hope is that heart picks up its normal sinus rhytm, which is an orderly activation that makes heart muscle contract "in order" and blood flow starts. For a "healthy" heart, a single jolt often is enough. It does not mean starting up a stopped heart. It means stopping a chaotic electrical activation in heart. That allows normal rhytm to resume. Meanwhile CPR is performed to keep circulation going. CPR is the key to survival without brain damage.

Should Eriksen been defibrillated within 2 minutes or so, he probably could've walked off the field himself. CPR may cause ribs to crack, but he is a strong athlete.

Resuscitation took considerably longer to start than optimal. To my eyes it looked 1.5 to 2 minutes. The medical staff should have sprinted like Usain Bolt when the player collapsed and did not move. At the latest when the players started waving in distress. Seconds count. They were not prepared. Defibrillator took minutes to arrive. However, once they knew what was happening, they did ok with CPR and that bought them time. But why on Earth did they have no a defa unit with them or near them? They should be all over the place in a huge venue like the stadium.

We can thank our lucky stars it was under 20C and the first half of a game Denmark was dominating and in control of the ball.  Eriksen hadn't run a long stretch before collapsing. That would have meant high body temperature and exhaustion of O2 in blood -> It would likely result in serious brain damage in couple minutes.

We do not know what the extent of damage caused by lack of circulation is, but him regaining conciousness in 1st jolt and sending txt messages hours after is very encouraging.

The situation must have been very traumatic and distressing to his teammates. CPR and defibrillation can be very scary looking even without it being your friend there. The players performed admirably given the situation and even managed to play competitively afterwards. It was the wrong decision to play, but that was not the players' fault. They were given terrible options. The organizers should've rescheduled completely.

I thought that too. Even if it turned out they weren't needed they should have rushed over to be nearby. Of course, sod's law, it happened about as far away as it possibly could have done from where they and the Danish physios etc were.

[AJ 1,221]

I think we need to allow for human through/emotion. Not many people would expect a fully fledged international at the peak of his career, a man who has gone through the rigorous health (and very importantly heart) testing that they do in Italian sport, to suddenly encounter a heart problem. It was hard to see in real time what happened, the way he went down from the dugout it probably wasn't clear what had happened. In reality I felt everyone actually reacted very quickly - the Danish captain went to him and made sure his airway was clear whilst the ref quickly realising that the situation was bad instantly called for the medics. The Danish team doctor said that when they arrived at Eriksen there was a pulse and he was breathing, so at that point his brain was still getting Oxygen, but that he deteriorated quickly from there and that's when they started administering CPR, and therefore the defib would not have been required until CPR was successful to a point where the defib could be used. And it was clearly on the pitch whilst the CPR was being administered. 

In reality not much could have been better when the events unfold in real time - it's very easy to point the finger when you're not in that situation with the emotion and fear running through you. The medics all did their job, the fact that he's alive shows that. Obviously time will tell if there's any lasting affects to his wellbeing, but the fact he's alive, facetiming his teammates are obviously very positive signs.

 

[cornish sam 953]

5 hours ago, Upo said:

Either it was ventricular tachycardia that turned into ventricular fibrillation or normal rhytm straight to fibrillation. It means chaotic heart muscle activation which is unable to pump blood efficiently. Shocking it stops that chaotic activity, and the hope is that heart picks up its normal sinus rhytm, which is an orderly activation that makes heart muscle contract "in order" and blood flow starts. For a "healthy" heart, a single jolt often is enough. It does not mean starting up a stopped heart. It means stopping a chaotic electrical activation in heart. That allows normal rhytm to resume. Meanwhile CPR is performed to keep circulation going. CPR is the key to survival without brain damage.

Should Eriksen been defibrillated within 2 minutes or so, he probably could've walked off the field himself. CPR may cause ribs to crack, but he is a strong athlete.

Resuscitation took considerably longer to start than optimal. To my eyes it looked 1.5 to 2 minutes. The medical staff should have sprinted like Usain Bolt when the player collapsed and did not move. At the latest when the players started waving in distress. Seconds count. They were not prepared. Defibrillator took minutes to arrive. However, once they knew what was happening, they did ok with CPR and that bought them time. But why on Earth did they have no a defa unit with them or near them? They should be all over the place in a huge venue like the stadium.

We can thank our lucky stars it was under 20C and the first half of a game Denmark was dominating and in control of the ball.  Eriksen hadn't run a long stretch before collapsing. That would have meant high body temperature and exhaustion of O2 in blood -> It would likely result in serious brain damage in couple minutes.

We do not know what the extent of damage caused by lack of circulation is, but him regaining conciousness in 1st jolt and sending txt messages hours after is very encouraging.

The situation must have been very traumatic and distressing to his teammates. CPR and defibrillation can be very scary looking even without it being your friend there. The players performed admirably given the situation and even managed to play competitively afterwards. It was the wrong decision to play, but that was not the players' fault. They were given terrible options. The organizers should've rescheduled completely.

Just on that point, I read something that quoted one of the medical staff saying that when they initially got to him he was breathing and there was a pulse, as soon as that disappeared they started CPR. If this is accurate then the Resuscitation couldn't really have started any sooner surely?

[Mello Yello 2,293]

54 minutes ago, Pete Raven said:

They returned last summer only to be ditched a few months later given lockdown meant footfall in the city centre was very low.

They are returning this summer, initially in tourist hotspots on the north Norfolk coast.

I thang yoo.... 

[Mello Yello 2,293]

I'm just pleased and so relieved for the outcome.....A tournament remembered for the survival of a player from a totally rare and unexpected serious medical event and now hopefully we can now witness some cracking football....and not to be remembered for the tragic loss of an international Scandinavian player.....

My praise, adulation and respect to all concerned  - who made it the former.....

[York Canary 28]

1 hour ago, cornish sam said:

Just on that point, I read something that quoted one of the medical staff saying that when they initially got to him he was breathing and there was a pulse, as soon as that disappeared they started CPR. If this is accurate then the Resuscitation couldn't really have started any sooner surely?

Correct.

If he was breathing effectively and his heart was in a normal rhythm then you would not start resuscitation. Therefore, those 2 mins wouldn’t be a delay. 
 

However, there are situations where a pulse may be present, but the heart is actually in an unstable rhythm that is unsustainable and needs defibrillation e.g. “pulsed” ventricular tachycardia. This is where the defib being present earlier to a s s ess the heart’s rhythm may have been beneficial 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by York Canary

[Upo 91]

53 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Just on that point, I read something that quoted one of the medical staff saying that when they initially got to him he was breathing and there was a pulse, as soon as that disappeared they started CPR. If this is accurate then the Resuscitation couldn't really have started any sooner surely?

May have been (probably was) agonal breathing. That is not breathing, but reflex from brain stem. That can mislead initial responders. Probably one reason why it took so long. They were not prepared, but it's difficult to blame them too much.

Occasionally a pulse may go through arteries if the spasming heart manages squeeze something out.

He was "dead" before he hit ground. Resuscitation should've begun within 30 seconds or at most a minute. Took too long.

[Mello Yello 2,293]

7 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Absolute ****ing scum!!!!! 

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1449447/buxted-football-club-euros-vandal-defibrillator-kit-christian-eriksen-appeal-ont

What a pair o' fuggin tools.....