EMBARASSED BY THUGS IN THE N&P LOWER

[Al Yellow 0]

Sadly you still don''t have to scratch the surface of football too hard to see the worst side of humanity.

 

Small minded bigotry, tribalism (Worthy outers vs Keep the faithers, anyone?), lack of sportsmanship, greed and (by far worst of all) racism all have had a place in the Carrow Road soap opera this season.

 

They say history repeats itself ........ I hope not.

 

 

[Kolin Kob 0]

i am disgusted.

there are people in this world who have real issues to worry about: poverty, victimisation etc. So many people face great hardships just to stay alive yet do not use violence to get what they want.

Milan, on the other hand, claims you would be willing to kick out your wife just because she supports a different team. Meanwhile, Dicky is suggesting that violence against Ipswich fans should be tolerated. Others make similar comments and suggestions. This is incredibly stupid bigotry which I am angered enough by to post for the first time in a number of months.

I really hope that the World Cup does not come to England for a very long time, because it is becoming increasingly clear to me that the mentality surrounding football in Britain is largely one of masculine aggression and bigotry. I used to think that Norwich was one club where this doesn''t go on so much. It seems I was wrong.

It wouldn''t surprise me if some of the people posting on this board were some of the same people attacking Portuguese people in Thetford during Euro 2004.

again, i am disgusted.

[Eastonpromise 0]

[quote user="baldyboy"]

wow! what a stir i caused with this post. it wasnt my intention to stir up a hornets nest but seems i did.However, it appears to me that a lot of people dont read the original posts when replying after all, i said the ipswich fans were celebrating a goal. they were NOT giving any Norwich fans any grief as some of you seem to think, nor did my wife give any abuse, even to me.

it just shows how sad some people are to say some of the things that have been said and that they dont value human life at all. how many of you, if you were dying and needed mouth to mouth would rather die thatn get help from an ipswich fan? would you ask before accepting their offer of help or rather die? that would be interesting to know the answer to.

i would never turf my wife out for being a "scummer" as many of you call her. that is one thing she most definitely is NOT. i dont consider football to be the most important thing in life and it never would be, especially when seeing some of the things i have seen in recent years. (i am in the military and have seen service in the gulf, before anyone asks) at no time did i refuse to carry out my duty because i was not wanting to help these sad people i just did it because i had to.

some people on here should really think long and hard about the comments they make before submitting them as they can be quite offensive if taken out of context.

i will think long and hard before i post again i think

[/quote]I am with you on this, I have a fiance who is a ITFC fan, and it does not cause any problems, I am beginning to think long and hard about posting anything on this forum now,  you either get critised for daring to suggest there is more to life than football, or ignored because your post count is not in the hundreds, I have a full time job and a busy social life, I don''t have the time or the football knowledge to make 100''s of posts. Does this make me any less of a norwich fan. My heart and passion is NCFC, however there are 2 things which i love more than football and one of them is my beautiful Ipswich supporting Fiance. Sorry if for some of you this means my passion is the wrong way round.

[greenTshirt 2]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"][quote user="baldyboy"]

i will think long and hard before i post again i think

[/quote]


I am beginning to think long and hard about posting anything on this forum now,  you either get critised for daring to suggest there is more to life than football, or ignored because your post count is not in the hundreds,

 
[/quote]

 

Baldyboy - this has been a crucial thread - I''m glad you started it. And the same to you Easternpromise. And the same rules apply to everyone whether they are a regular poster or come on here from time to time.

I think, the balance of this thread is on the positive side, with a minority thinking it''s ok for the tribalism to totally rule their lives, give fellow supporters a slap or throw their wives out for supporting the opposition.

In the main we are all  passionate supporters and that''s to be encouraged. But actually, I think it''s more fun to be around oppostion fans whoever they may be so you can get a good bit of banter going, p*ss taking etc but without the need for slappage. But in the current football environment, we all recognise the need for respect if we sit with the opposition (a friend of ours sat with the Millwall fans recently and witnessed the punch up among their own fans).

But the problem is for a minority of people, it''s not about the football however much they bleat on about it. For them it''s about being part of a tribe to abuse the opposition - the football/sport aspects are secondary.

[Saint Canary 0]

Good posts from Eastern Promise & GreenTShirt.  I hope you both find time to post more often in the future.

"it''s not about the football however much they bleat on about it. For them it''s about being part of a tribe to abuse the opposition"

An excellent summary.  It''s all about being in a gang and beating your chest.

 

[Eastonpromise 0]

[quote user="greenTshirt"]

And the same to you Easternpromise.

[/quote]Its Eastonpromise - anyone would think u had no idea who i was!!!!

[Banus Canary 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

Milan Marcus - if people like you were put in a cage, blah blah blah................

Football is my sport, Norwich is my team. But I also like to have a life. You should try one.[/quote]

Mook, Milan  is obviously very passionate about the club, put him

and guys with a similar level of passion / loyalty in a cage (bit

harsh) and you''re left with a very fickle bunch of supporters. 

As for having a life, I don''t see that his view on away supporters

would effect his lifestyle, I share his level of passion and am

disgusted when away fans cheer in our stand it happened when Milwall

came down, its pathetic, but my opinion has no bearing on me having a

life outside football, perhaps you should put a little thought into

your posts so I don''t have to waste my time reading them.

[milan marcus 0]

Blimey you guys need to chill out....I love the Mrs but then she does''nt support the Town......  Fair play to Trent as you say mate each to their own.  I really do hate the scummers but that does not mean I am loony hooligan.  If you like your football nice and soft and siting down chatting to the away fans next to you then good luck however I suggest you watch Rugger.  Football is about the buzz and the banter not discussing global peace.  As for the muppet who keeps going on about active service and duty to Queen and country I would be happy to to put my service on the table with you anyday.  I am in the middle east at the moment where are you?

[YankeeCanary 0]

Jeez, even when you try to be a Saint it backfires.

[Eastonpromise 0]

i get the impression that a lot of Norwich fans are married to, or in my case soon to be married to Ipswich FansAm i correct in this assumption

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"]i get the impression that a lot of Norwich fans are married to, or in my case soon to be married to Ipswich Fans

Am i correct in this assumption
[/quote]

Adds a bit of spice to the relationship I would reckon!!!

[Eastonpromise 0]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"]i get the impression that a lot of Norwich fans are married to, or in my case soon to be married to Ipswich FansAm i correct in this assumption[/quote]

Adds a bit of spice to the relationship I would reckon!!!

[/quote]It is also very quiet on at least 2 days a season

[Plastic Scouser 0]

[quote user="milan marcus"]Blimey you guys need to chill out....I love the Mrs but then she does''nt support the Town......  Fair play to Trent as you say mate each to their own.  I really do hate the scummers but that does not mean I am loony hooligan.  If you like your football nice and soft and siting down chatting to the away fans next to you then good luck however I suggest you watch Rugger.  Football is about the buzz and the banter not discussing global peace.  As for the muppet who keeps going on about active service and duty to Queen and country I would be happy to to put my service on the table with you anyday.  I am in the middle east at the moment where are you?[/quote]

Milan

I think Beelsie has been there & done that a long time ago with regards to active service.   What is worrying as other posters have said is that there is an unacceptable level of menace in some of the postings on this subject.   Now whether that''s just bravado or actual intent could be debated until the cows come home, but the fact that it''s there is bad enough.   Given that there are so many sheep out there, I wonder what would happen if the stupid few actually started something...

[westoncanary. 0]

I can only speak from my own experience, but about 9(?) seasons ago we played WBA away in an evening game. My mate is WBA fan and had 2 free tickets, but they were in the home section, being a tightwad and skint at the time it was too good to pass up, so reluctantly I took my place, colours hidden with the Baggies.  Andy Hunt scored after 1 minute to put them one up, here we go, I thought, one of those nights again!!  We went on to win 4-1 in the end, but not once did I celebrate a goal, I may have been cowardly but also out of respect to the home fans and not wanting any nasty trouble to start I thought it was better to sit on my hands. 

[At last? 0]

Anyone see "Life on Mars" on BBC1 on Monday night?

If you didnt, you should try to catch the rerun.

Puts all of this in context.

[macdougalls perm 0]

FTFW,

I would like to make it clear that in no way, shape or form was I condoning violence, I merely meant that if an away fan in a home section of a ground cannot control his reaction in celebrating a goal, why on earth should the home fans be able to control their impulse to express their displeasure (verbally, I would add!). IMO there is a huge distinction between wanting to retaliate verbally to such provocation and wanting to physically attack the ''provoker'', and its a distinction that many posters on this thread seem unwilling to recognise. Fighting over football is reprehensible and can only be to the detriment of the game, but to celebrate a goal amongst the opposing fans during a derby game and not to expect to receive any verbal abuse seems, to me, to be naive in the extreme. 

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

MP,

Point taken.

p.s. Suggett''s perm was better.

[Bird Table 0]

It''s been a good topic this. It''s also allowed a couple of posters to identify themselves as complete morons.

[Mello Yello 2,294]

[quote user="Marmite"]It''s been a good topic this. It''s also allowed a couple of posters to identify themselves as complete morons.[/quote]

Weren''t ''The Osmond''s'' complete Mormons? Very successful group in the 70''s........and Marie was pretty tasty!

[Eastonpromise 0]

but no one has answered a fundamental question, why is football so different to other sports that fans have to be segregated to stop trouble?and why is it you can watch cricket all day, drink loads and have no trouble, yet at football grounds you cannot drink alcohol in view of the pitch?

[milan marcus 0]

Eastern to be fair I think alcohol and football is what my posts are about. 

 

At the end of the day footballs background is working class not middle class however in recent years more of the middle class have got into football but don’t understand its roots.  Cricket and rugger were never going to watched by the working class in the numbers that football attracts.  The roots of football have always been about the rivalry of different cities and towns competing in the best sport in the world.  This rivalry does to a certain extent reflect tribalism and this is why the passion and buzz of football beats all other spectator sports.  The reason why alcohol and football do not mix is due to the effect alcohol has on tribalism.  Unfortunately this is where tribalism turns to violence but you cannot separate this from football you never will and that is what so many fail to understand on this board.  You need to control and educate but you cannot separate it because if you do you create the prawn sandwich effect and move football away from its roots to reflect a sport that will eventually lose its way. Cricket and Rugger are about the sport not the tribalism and that’s why it’s a totally different environment

  

I don’t care how many people think I am a moron but I for one never want to sit next to an away fan and discuss tactics and shake hands at the end of the game.  This does not make me a yob it just makes me someone who enjoys their football in a different way to you.  If you want to enjoy your football and sit down and not get excited and eat prawn sandwich’s then good for you but please don’t sit next to me especially if you are an scummer. 

 

I wonder how many of the let’s bring peace to the world brigade have ever been to Portman Road and if they have have they set in the home section in their captain canary outfit…I wonder if your friends from Suffolk would be so happy to see you?

 

Up the city… 

 

[Eastonpromise 0]

[quote user="milan marcus"]

 I don’t care how many people think I am a moron but I for one never want to sit next to an away fan and discuss tactics and shake hands at the end of the game.  This does not make me a yob it just makes me someone who enjoys their football in a different way to you.  If you want to enjoy your football and sit down and not get excited and eat prawn sandwich’s then good for you but please don’t sit next to me especially if you are an scummer. 

 

[/quote]Which stand do you sit in?  I will make a mental note to avoid it next season, I prefer to sit next to people who have respect for all the human race, Not just the ones who happen to support Norwich City Football Club

[beelsie 0]

Of course you do,nt care what other people think of you or your ilk.  Also it does make you a yob because all people who behave in this manner are yob''s  whether they be Norwich or Ipswich supporters.

There is a dictionary explanation should you care to read it.  It means that you are not in control of your actions.  You say that you do''nt care what people think of you, perhaps you can tell the readers why you wrote this last piece, as an explanation of your behaviour.  You blame the effect of drink,  there is nothing wrong with alchohol.  There is a great deal wrong with the brain of a person who imbibes it, yet ca''nt handle it in any quantity and remain a sane and reasonable person.

You have the audacity to bring class into the discussion saying that it is a game of the working classes, Many years ago I watched football standing at the Nest and at Carrow road with more than thirty thousand spectators at time and women and children were present, they were from all walks of life and opposing supporters were in amongst the home crowd, there was never a hint of trouble from any of them, no one objected when an opposing supporter felt good because his team had scored against us. HE saw fit to demonstrate his pleasure and we expected he would do.

Yet nowadays, YOB''s of your ilk feel it is an affront to you as a  spectator for someone to applaud  his team as you applaud yours.  I am also sure that wherever I go now and in the future, my behaviour will be impeccable and people of whatever race, creed, or following, will be pleased to have me in there midst.  Because whatever class I happen to be and whatever I drink, I will be able to take it and not make an ass of myself.  Self control is a necessity and if you are as you say, and I doubt it,  a member of the armed forces you will have lear''nt during your initial training that a man in battle without self control, is a liability to his comrades and an asset to his enemies.  OTBC

[mighty yellow 0]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"][quote user="milan marcus"]

 I don’t care how many people think I am a moron but I for one never want to sit next to an away fan and discuss tactics and shake hands at the end of the game.  This does not make me a yob it just makes me someone who enjoys their football in a different way to you.  If you want to enjoy your football and sit down and not get excited and eat prawn sandwich’s then good for you but please don’t sit next to me especially if you are an scummer. 

 

[/quote]

Which stand do you sit in?  I will make a mental note to avoid it next season, I prefer to sit next to people who have respect for all the human race, Not just the ones who happen to support Norwich City Football Club
[/quote]

I agree with m m. I think all viloence is totally pointless, but I cant sit next to oppostion fans. I like to treat oppostion fans as friends rather than enemies.

During the game making stupid songs up about why they''re shite is fun and they will do it back. Taking the piss when they under peform and mocking them when you destroy them. It''s all good natured fun, and is a reason i believe the segregation is good at creating an atmosphere unlike any other in sport.

Unfortunately, this does occasionly turn to violence, which I completely disagree with. However, if this behaviour could be cut out I believe that the way football is at the moment creates a healthy atmosphere which we can all enjoy.

[milan marcus 0]

Beelise

 

Different world different place mate maybe not as good as the one you lived in but still a different place. 

 

Good luck to your views as I said enjoy your football the way you like it but unfortunately  for you just because I don''t want to sit next to a scummer does not make me a yob.  I just like the buzz and the banter and don''t want away fans in my face if they score against us.  I will however be proposing you to become Saint Beelise. 

 

P.S enjoy your prawn sandwich

 

Up the city....

[Plastic Scouser 0]

Which makes it so sad that you''ll never appreciate the buzz and banter of a test match against the Aussies or a rugby match against the Welsh.   At either of those two sporting occasions you can get totally sloshed if you want to, sit next to a whining convict or a Welsh sheep sh**ger and spend the whole game singing songs about the opposition or taunting the shortcomings of the teams.   Oh, and the chances are you''ll also be in a pretty classless crowd too - there are probably more people from the chattering classes at your average Carra Rud match than at a test match - especially if it''s held oop north!

Beelsie - take no notice.  You''d have thought that someone allegedly taking the Queen''s pound would have respected your views...

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

hmm, interesting thread for change on here ;-)

I''m there with mm and my, take away ANY threat of violence and I think the banter, excitement etc etc will inevitably be lost too. I don''t engage in or have actually seen any in 30 years of watching city, but I have seen and engaged in plenty of banter, got angry and got angry at away fans in the home end (like the Villa fans, laughing in the Barclay end the day of the  battle of Carrow rd) I want them out unless they can behave in a very non-confrontational and respectful way. It''s like someone taking the pi** out of you in your own home. 99.9% of fans know it''s part of the game of supporting and it never turns into anything serious. The 0.1% will get into fights wherever they are or whatever they were doing. I simply don''t believe that there is as much passion or fun at some game where everyone sits together and are "friends". I suspect if you looked at the figures there is similar levels of violence at cricket , rugby and football matches. Just part of the long standing political game of denigrating football fans.

[Ken Aries 0]

This must be approaching the longest thread on this forum now, isn''t it?

[oh huckerby 0]

my god, i can''t beleive abusive behavour goes on in the N&P,

come join us in the barclay!!!

[At last? 0]

[quote user="stephen nobbs"]This must be approaching the longest thread on this forum now, isn''t it?[/quote]

 

Better than that daft "cheesboard" thread last year.,