Things I feel we learnt from last night.

[Hardhouse44 289]

1) Todd is a class act. Still rough around the edges in areas but he is a midfielder who gets in to goal scoring areas and despite missing several changes last night the goals will come. We’re a better side with him in the team.

2) Playing Rupp and Skipp in CM at home at least is too conservative and we need to have a more creative and expansive player in there. If I were to keep one on recent showings Rupp would be the man.

3) Mario needs to feature much more at this level, especially at home. His creativity and eye for goal is what we are crying out for.

4) Emi needs to be more involved. Some lovely touches at times last night but not often enough.  Need to find the right position to bring out his total potential.

5) Teemu is lacking confidence and form and last night’s position didn’t do anything to help that. 
 

6) Without Hernandez or pancetta! we lack pace and somebody to run at defenders, not easy to shoehorn one of these in to the team as others are rightfully taking up the position but pace always bothers defenders. (Obviously Hernandez is injured at present)

All in all last night was by far the best we’ve played so far this season. We have to take more of our chances and unpick the defensive line ups that will come to Carrow road this season. 

 

OTBC
 

 

[lake district canary 4,831]

2 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

1) Todd is a class act. Still rough around the edges in areas but he is a midfielder who gets in to goal scoring areas and despite missing several changes last night the goals will come. We’re a better side with him in the team.

2) Playing Rupp and Skipp in CM at home at least is too conservative and we need to have a more creative and expansive player in there. If I were to keep one on recent showings Rupp would be the man.

3) Mario needs to feature much more at this level, especially at home. His creativity and eye for goal is what we are crying out for.

4) Emi needs to be more involved. Some lovely touches at times last night but not often enough.  Need to find the right position to bring out his total potential.

5) Teemu is lacking confidence and form and last night’s position didn’t do anything to help that. 
 

6) Without Hernandez or pancetta! we lack pace and somebody to run at defenders, not easy to shoehorn one of these in to the team as others are rightfully taking up the position but pace always bothers defenders. (Obviously Hernandez is injured at present)

All in all last night was by far the best we’ve played so far this season. We have to take more of our chances and unpick the defensive line ups that will come to Carrow road this season. 

OTBC

Agree with most of that - the only one I would query is Teemu lacking confidence and that last night's position didn't help. I thought he looked sharp and fit, the two main requirements that he needs to get on the scoring road again - and his hold up play is just as excellent as always, wherever he is on the pitch.

[vos 176]

Hardhouse 44. In  my view you are spot on with every point. We have a very slow buildup and tend to play in front of the opposing two rows of four. Time and time again we were picked off once we got to near the penalty area. We desperately need someone with strength and pace in midfield to break through the first line of four then we have sufficient quality to score goals. I accept that our goal came from quick one two passing but most of the time that tactic was not getting anywhere. Yes they had a very defensive set up. I hope I am proved wrong but Teemu just looks out of sorts and his pace and enthusiasm are just not there at the moment.

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

37 minutes ago, vos said:

Hardhouse 44. In  my view you are spot on with every point. We have a very slow buildup and tend to play in front of the opposing two rows of four. Time and time again we were picked off once we got to near the penalty area. We desperately need someone with strength and pace in midfield to break through the first line of four then we have sufficient quality to score goals. I accept that our goal came from quick one two passing but most of the time that tactic was not getting anywhere. Yes they had a very defensive set up. I hope I am proved wrong but Teemu just looks out of sorts and his pace and enthusiasm are just not there at the moment.

Confidence is lacking with Pukki when in with a shooting opportunity but little else. 

[Number9 272]

4 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

1) Todd is a class act. Still rough around the edges in areas but he is a midfielder who gets in to goal scoring areas and despite missing several changes last night the goals will come. We’re a better side with him in the team.

2) Playing Rupp and Skipp in CM at home at least is too conservative and we need to have a more creative and expansive player in there. If I were to keep one on recent showings Rupp would be the man.

3) Mario needs to feature much more at this level, especially at home. His creativity and eye for goal is what we are crying out for.

4) Emi needs to be more involved. Some lovely touches at times last night but not often enough.  Need to find the right position to bring out his total potential.

5) Teemu is lacking confidence and form and last night’s position didn’t do anything to help that. 
 

6) Without Hernandez or pancetta! we lack pace and somebody to run at defenders, not easy to shoehorn one of these in to the team as others are rightfully taking up the position but pace always bothers defenders. (Obviously Hernandez is injured at present)

All in all last night was by far the best we’ve played so far this season. We have to take more of our chances and unpick the defensive line ups that will come to Carrow road this season. 

 

OTBC
 

 

1) Todd certainly gets about and puts his heart into it.

2) I got bored of watching Rupp go in circles because he was on the left yet can't kick the ball with his left foot. At least Skipp played some creative passes forward to try things, some didn't come off but at least he tried. 

3) Mario didn't look very happy, perhaps because he's not getting game time?

4)Emi was heavily involved, watch again and keep your eyes on him.

5)Pukki shouldn't be starting games, his job is to score goals and he gas been a passenger recently. 

6)We had Xavi and Aaron's starting, maybe look at crossing to Hugill and Idah rather than trying to walk it through eight defenders in the centre. 

[sgncfc 1,330]

If you watched Rupp last night and didn't think he had a good game then you need to start watching a different sport, because you know very little about this one. A point which is proven by what you then say about Pukki being a passenger. 

[hogesar 10,766]

1 hour ago, Number9 said:

 

2) I got bored of watching Rupp go in circles because he was on the left yet can't kick the ball with his left foot. At least Skipp played some creative passes forward to try things, some didn't come off but at least he tried. 

You should probably pay attention to the fact that every single fan and pundit disagrees with you. Also, Skipp didn't play any creative passes. The only chance creating passes from either came from Rupp.

[Six Pack 105]

Pukki does have the speed and close ball control that is required when playing against close defensive formations as yesterday. I was happy to see him out there. We have an advantage with the likes of him, Buendia, Cantwell, Rupp and Vrancic passing accurately in compressed areas.

It's ashame that Cantwell didn't square the ball to Pukki when that chance came up in the 1st half. If he had scored then, it would have improved his confidence no end.

[hogesar 10,766]

14 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

If you watched Rupp last night and didn't think he had a good game then you need to start watching a different sport, because you know very little about this one. A point which is proven by what you then say about Pukki being a passenger. 

👍👍

Unfortunately when some fans vocally criticise a player so much they then refuse to see any good in some sort of stubborn way of making them feel their initial viewpoint was right.

[Surfer 1,547]

I thought the tikka takka style attack was almost perfect last night, just a fraction off timing wise, but give them couple more weeks and that front four will be unstoppable. Emi the pick of the front four for me. 

[Number9 272]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

You should probably pay attention to the fact that every single fan and pundit disagrees with you. Also, Skipp didn't play any creative passes. The only chance creating passes from either came from Rupp.

Have another look, your assertion is incorrect. 

[seanthecanary 168]

I would add that the game confirmed that Hanley is going to cost you goal scoring chances in games. There was a moment towards the end of the game when Birmingham were down to 10 men where he seemingly ducked under a ball in the middle of our own box, gifting a chance to the opposition. 

[Number9 272]

Skipp played far more passes forward to the attacking players in advanced areas of the pitch than Rupp did.

Majority of Rupps passes were straight back two or three yards to the player who gave him the ball. A tiny fraction of his passing was forwards, the bulk of it was sideways or backwards. 

Imagine being one of the attacking players running up the pitch and a midfielder constantly stops, turns round in a circle because he can't kick with his left foot,  and then gives it back towards his defence.

Skipp probably had a lower stat of 'successful passes' because he tried to thread several balls through defensive lines to attacking players. They didn't all reach their intended destination but at least he was trying to create opportunities. 

Much like the way Emi probably has a lower pass completion stat than Rupp or McLean. 

 

[king canary 8,758]

RE point 6- when you're playing a team like Birmingham who have set up to defend deep, pace is not that important. If we'd have played Placheta he would likely have struggled to get into the game with very little space to run into and use his best asset.

[hogesar 10,766]

59 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Skipp played far more passes forward to the attacking players in advanced areas of the pitch than Rupp did.

Majority of Rupps passes were straight back two or three yards to the player who gave him the ball. A tiny fraction of his passing was forwards, the bulk of it was sideways or backwards. 

Imagine being one of the attacking players running up the pitch and a midfielder constantly stops, turns round in a circle because he can't kick with his left foot,  and then gives it back towards his defence.

Skipp probably had a lower stat of 'successful passes' because he tried to thread several balls through defensive lines to attacking players. They didn't all reach their intended destination but at least he was trying to create opportunities. 

Much like the way Emi probably has a lower pass completion stat than Rupp or McLean. 

 

You're seeing what you want to see rather than what actually happened. That's all I can say. Skipp doesn't try to 'thread several balls through defensive lines'. Rupp doesn't either, but he does pass forward and get on his bike for the one two and advances into good positions, hence the fact he gets shots off every game.

[king canary 8,758]

Some context on Rupp/Skipp/forward passing

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

13 minutes ago, king canary said:

RE point 6- when you're playing a team like Birmingham who have set up to defend deep, pace is not that important. If we'd have played Placheta he would likely have struggled to get into the game with very little space to run into and use his best asset.

I agree, not least because Farke had other subs to make that made sense. But even with teams that defend  in numbers and depth as Birmingham did the game tends to open up eventually, as tiredness sets in. In other such games there might be a case for bringing Placheta on earlier than was the case on Tuesday.

[king canary 8,758]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I agree, not least because Farke had other subs to make that made sense. But even with teams that defend  in numbers and depth as Birmingham did the game tends to open up eventually, as tiredness sets in. In other such games there might be a case for bringing Placheta on earlier than was the case on Tuesday.

As much as I like Farke, I'd argue there is almost always a case to argue for bringing his subs on earlier.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I’m genuinely surprised at the number of people saying Emi needs to be more involved. Watch that game again and count the number of key passes he made that led directly or indirectly to good chances (or should have done).

the only think he does need to do is stop throwing his arms up when he gets dispossessed and chase back quicker but he was heavily involved throughout and whilst Cantwell (who also played well bar the finishing) is more eye catching most of the moments of genuine quality involved Buendia. 

[Move Klose 303]

16 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

1) Todd is a class act. Still rough around the edges in areas but he is a midfielder who gets in to goal scoring areas and despite missing several changes last night the goals will come. We’re a better side with him in the team.

2) Playing Rupp and Skipp in CM at home at least is too conservative and we need to have a more creative and expansive player in there. If I were to keep one on recent showings Rupp would be the man.

3) Mario needs to feature much more at this level, especially at home. His creativity and eye for goal is what we are crying out for.

4) Emi needs to be more involved. Some lovely touches at times last night but not often enough.  Need to find the right position to bring out his total potential.

5) Teemu is lacking confidence and form and last night’s position didn’t do anything to help that. 
 

6) Without Hernandez or pancetta! we lack pace and somebody to run at defenders, not easy to shoehorn one of these in to the team as others are rightfully taking up the position but pace always bothers defenders. (Obviously Hernandez is injured at present)

All in all last night was by far the best we’ve played so far this season. We have to take more of our chances and unpick the defensive line ups that will come to Carrow road this season. 

 

OTBC
 

 

I dont think pace was the problem, when a team defends in such high numbers and sit deep I'm not sure getting down the wing and using your pace is really that achievable.

We had 2 players basically playing as wingers anyway in Aarons and Quintilla.

[hogesar 10,766]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Some context on Rupp/Skipp/forward passing

Interesting, thanks.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

16 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

1) Todd is a class act. Still rough around the edges in areas but he is a midfielder who gets in to goal scoring areas and despite missing several changes last night the goals will come. We’re a better side with him in the team.

2) Playing Rupp and Skipp in CM at home at least is too conservative and we need to have a more creative and expansive player in there. If I were to keep one on recent showings Rupp would be the man.

3) Mario needs to feature much more at this level, especially at home. His creativity and eye for goal is what we are crying out for.

4) Emi needs to be more involved. Some lovely touches at times last night but not often enough.  Need to find the right position to bring out his total potential.

5) Teemu is lacking confidence and form and last night’s position didn’t do anything to help that. 
 

6) Without Hernandez or pancetta! we lack pace and somebody to run at defenders, not easy to shoehorn one of these in to the team as others are rightfully taking up the position but pace always bothers defenders. (Obviously Hernandez is injured at present)

All in all last night was by far the best we’ve played so far this season. We have to take more of our chances and unpick the defensive line ups that will come to Carrow road this season. 

 

OTBC
 

 

Agree with some, not so with others.

1. Yep. The only caveat I would say is that he needs to either work a little more on his defensive off-the-ball output, but he does provide a creativity in his movement and sense of space that no-one else, probably not even Buendia, has. That makes him dangerous as he's usually available for balls played forwards. But if you're going to accommodate Buendia and Cantwell together, it needs a more conservative central two, which leads me to the next point.

2. Nope. This was the one I totally disagreed with. When Vrancic came on for Skipp we did look more creative, but we also looked far more vulnerable down the middle as evidenced by the panic late on. Rupp's not a pure defensive midfielder, he's a balanced box-to-box midfielder with an eye for a forward pass. He doesn't have that eye for a forward ball to the level of Vrancic or Leitner (but as we're finding out, he's a bit underrated here), but can outrun and outwork the pair of them with ease. Out-tackle them as well.

3. He's difficult to shoehorn in but agree in principle. Particularly with his set-pieces. I would say he's best with a speedster on the pitch as Vrancic loves that floated diagonal ball, and a speedster on the wing is the ideal outlet. He's good at channel balls as well, so should bring Cantwell and Pukki in. You'd need a formation change, or a far more mobile ultra-defensive midfielder. 4-3-2-1 would suit Vrancic better. Let Rupp and Skipp secure it behind him, but he should play more like a number 8 so still has the room for those passes. He's not fast enough for further up the field.

4. Can agree here. Long-term, he's a classic number 10. Possibly even a creative 8. I'd say he and Cantwell should be behind a sole striker, with a more cautious midfield three behind them. Vrancic for the passes and Rupp/McLean for the box-to-box work could stick, but then there's a heck of an onus on the full-backs.

5. Largely agree, but I think he needs a rest. He's essentially played non-stop when throwing in his Finland exploits and also played through an array of niggling injuries. Hugill's looking keen and ready and you could argue both could use a goal from open play too.

6. True in essence, but pace against deep blocks such as what Birmingham employed is nullified somewhat simply as there's less space to power into at speed and less margin for error in the passes. Pace is a better counter-attacking weapon (see Jamie Vardy / Leicester for details). It's also better to throw on later on against tiring defences. That's why I've said before that any formation with both Hernandez and Placheta starting is a bad idea. 30 minutes to go when level or chasing - absolutely.

It was a good performance as players are getting more accustomed to each other and the passing is speeding up. Pure running pace is always a seriously handy tool in the bag, but always remember, the ball will out-speed any player.

[Number9 272]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

You're seeing what you want to see rather than what actually happened. That's all I can say. Skipp doesn't try to 'thread several balls through defensive lines'. Rupp doesn't either, but he does pass forward and get on his bike for the one two and advances into good positions, hence the fact he gets shots off every game.

Rupp does move forward and shoot. 

He doesn't score, normally his shots go straight into the keeper, compare with McLean for example who aims for the bottom corners.

He doesn't make assists. 

Skipp doesn't get forward as much and shoot, he did put quite a few ball through against Birmingham. As I understand, Skipp is supposed to be DM rather than AM anyway?

[hogesar 10,766]

1 hour ago, Number9 said:

Rupp does move forward and shoot. 

He doesn't score, normally his shots go straight into the keeper, compare with McLean for example who aims for the bottom corners.

He doesn't make assists. 

Skipp doesn't get forward as much and shoot, he did put quite a few ball through against Birmingham. As I understand, Skipp is supposed to be DM rather than AM anyway?

To say Rupp doesn't score or assist at this level is a bit disingenuous considering the amount of games played and the fact he would have had an assist had Stiepermann not shot straight at the keeper against Rotherham. 

He'll only need 2 goals and 1 assist to equal what Leitner did for us in our championship winning season.

[Number9 272]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

To say Rupp doesn't score or assist at this level is a bit disingenuous considering the amount of games played and the fact he would have had an assist had Stiepermann not shot straight at the keeper against Rotherham. 

He'll only need 2 goals and 1 assist to equal what Leitner did for us in our championship winning season.

I understand that opinions are cool and we both have different ones.

Rupp has consistently hit shots straight at the keeper and not provided assists in any game he played this year.

It's not quite November, plenty of time yet.

 

[Fr. Chewy Louie 140]

9 minutes ago, Number9 said:

I understand that opinions are cool and we both have different ones.

Rupp has consistently hit shots straight at the keeper and not provided assists in any game he played this year.

It's not quite November, plenty of time yet.

 

How many assists/goals has Emi provided this year? Not many more than that.

[curious yellow 184]

Even last season Rupp had a great work-rate, things have started to click for him. 

I think we are just getting used to playing in empty grounds, Gibson is very vocal and this is a great help, he should be a great asset, I hope we can keep him. 

[king canary 8,758]

3 hours ago, Number9 said:

Rupp does move forward and shoot. 

He doesn't score, normally his shots go straight into the keeper, compare with McLean for example who aims for the bottom corners.

He doesn't make assists. 

Skipp doesn't get forward as much and shoot, he did put quite a few ball through against Birmingham. As I understand, Skipp is supposed to be DM rather than AM anyway?

He made the goal on Tuesday.

He doesn't get a relatively meaningless 'assist' stat for it but his was the key work.

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

Master Rupp’s confidence must be sky high now. No disrespect to Kenny(he needs a break)  but it didn’t look like Norwich were  carrying a player on Tuesday. I’m expecting the fine tuning to work even better against Wycombe which should see more converted chances. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

Norwich play a double pivot in midfield and both Rupp and Skipp have licence to go forward, if the other is covering behind them.

The roles aren't split to an attacking one and a defensive one, this I think is why Farke has said he sees Vrancic for the 10 role, rather than the two central midfield roles as Mario probably doesn't have the athleticism to do that role.