Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bill

Goalkeepers

Recommended Posts

We currently have Krul and McGovern available.... with Oxborough looking to go out on loan at Salford

So the question is, do we need another keeper ?

My thought is a definite no.

Whatever the risks of injuries we will have time to bring in an emergency keeper, and money spent is money sat on the bench - and I'm sure McGovern is up to the Championship, if needed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Yes. 

If Krul gets injured, I wouldn't have much confidence in McGovern as number one for an extended period of time. 

Yeah I was surprised to see both Mair and Oxbrough going out on loan.

The other issue is that McGovern technically takes up one of the non-homegrown spaces. Wonder if there are any English keepers looking to be a back up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah I was surprised to see both Mair and Oxbrough going out on loan.

The other issue is that McGovern technically takes up one of the non-homegrown spaces. Wonder if there are any English keepers looking to be a back up?

To be honest, I wasn't surprised to see them both loaned. They'll benefit more from senior football than the Under-23s.

I think McGovern is seen nowadays as an emergency number three and a part-time coach, so we'll be looking to bring someone in to challenge Krul. Probably an experienced free agent who can still 'do a job' but wouldn't kick up a stink about being a number two.

I'm not sure how many players fit this mould though. Vito Mannone, David Stockdale, Rob Elliott and Stephen Henderson are all free agent goalkeepers who might fit the bill. 

Alternatively, there's a list of English-based goalkeepers here who are in the final year of their contract and could be available for a small fee:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/detailsuche/spielerdetail/suche/22764875

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely yes. Ideally would like competition for Krul as that seemed to have a positive impact on his performances last season. McGovern ok as emergency backup but nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Absolutely yes. Ideally would like competition for Krul as that seemed to have a positive impact on his performances last season. McGovern ok as emergency backup but nothing more.

I agree. McGovern is only useful in an absolute emergency; such as both the first and second choice keepers are injured and he has to fill in for a (hopefully very) short time. To have him in the match day squad on a regular basis is not good enough and as stated above, a complete waste of a non homegrown spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As international teams take 3 goalkeepers to tournaments it would be crazy to only have 2 for a season-- or even half a season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Absolutely yes. Ideally would like competition for Krul as that seemed to have a positive impact on his performances last season. McGovern ok as emergency backup but nothing more.

Quite, assuming Oxborough goes on loan and perhaps even if he doesn't. If we left ourselves with just Krul and McGovern and the former got injured we would have a sub-standard keeper.

We could only apply for an emergency loan if both were injured, and have to trust there was someone half decent who was available, and even then the authorities might ask why it was we had only got two keepers when probably every other club in the division will have three.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the above logic if McGovern is not up to deputising for Krul then he should not be here

Taking 3 keepers to an international, is not the same as paying for three keepers for a season, two of who will spent their time sat doing nothing. With PL money probably afford the cost, with Championship money those wages would be better spent o another outfield player

As to the quality of those without a contract - I think that status tells us what we need to know.

And as stated we would be far better to rely upon an emergency keeper were both first choice keepers be injured

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bill said:

By the above logic if McGovern is not up to deputising for Krul then he should not be here

Taking 3 keepers to an international, is not the same as paying for three keepers for a season, two of who will spent their time sat doing nothing. With PL money probably afford the cost, with Championship money those wages would be better spent o another outfield player

As to the quality of those without a contract - I think that status tells us what we need to know.

And as stated we would be far better to rely upon an emergency keeper were both first choice keepers be injured

But he's also here in a coaching capacity whilst offering a no-fuss 3rd choice option whilst our young players are gaining experience on loan, all whilst on moderate wages. That's sensible.

But he's not good enough to be second choice and we'll certainly be signing a GK this window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he is not good enough as 2nd choice then he is not good enough as any choice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm Jamal Blackman anyone? Either on loan or for a small fee? By reports I've read he is decent with his feet as well, so may fit the farke style? He may see us as attractive as well and may feel he has time on his side to eventually take over from krul while still knowing he has a fair bit of experience over Mair and oxborough.

Think he played for shef utd prior to henderson, but unsure about this year?

 

Any other thoughts on personnel?

 

But I'd agree, going in with just krul and McGovern would be mental.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bill said:

If he is not good enough as 2nd choice then he is not good enough as any choice

That's not quite how it works. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just now, hogesar said:

That's not quite how it works. 

eh ?

if he is expected to be called upon to the first team he needs to be good enough,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yep, we definitely need another in. McGovern just isn't up to scratch. Happy to have him in the building as coach/emergency keeper #3 but no way he should be second choice. Makes a tonne of sense to get someone who fits the homegrown quota here too.

Edited by kick it off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

eh ?

if he is expected to be called upon to the first team he needs to be good enough,

But there is generally a different level of expectancy with your 3rd choice, than your 1st choice, and second choice. It's sort of why they're third choice! No goalkeepers who are good enough for the upper half of the championship are happy to not even sit on the bench most of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McGovern is 36 and out of contract next summer. He’s never been a great player for us and so I can only see him being released when his contract expires. With Oxborough and Mair both out on loan we need to sign another keeper - either on loan as backup or as a replacement for McGovern when he goes 

Many times in the past I’ve seen people think 2 keepers is enough but we do need to sign another. Yes 2 is enough for the match squad, 1 for the starting XI and 1 for the bench but it’s essential to have 3 in the club squad - what do we do if Krul breaks his leg/picks up knee ligament damage on the opening day of the season and McGovern gets sent off in the next game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only logical solution to this, taking into account that both our younger HG keepers are away for the season, is that a HG #2 will be coming in some capacity.

This of course could all completely change if Krul leaves- I understand he is our third highest earner and he made subtle mention in his interview RE the Barry Butler trophy that 'I want to stay but if the club see it as a financial issue it's out of my hands' which gives me pause.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely need competition for Krul.   McGovern can't distribute at all and isn't a particularly good keeper either.     We need proper cover and if Oxborough is going out on loan then no doubt we will get some.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, NeymarSmith said:

Hmmm Jamal Blackman anyone? Either on loan or for a small fee? By reports I've read he is decent with his feet as well, so may fit the farke style? He may see us as attractive as well and may feel he has time on his side to eventually take over from krul while still knowing he has a fair bit of experience over Mair and oxborough.

Think he played for shef utd prior to henderson, but unsure about this year?

 

Any other thoughts on personnel?

 

But I'd agree, going in with just krul and McGovern would be mental.

Good shout, he played well whilst on loan at Sheff Utd, good stopper but a tendency for the odd clanger.  Chelsea hold his contract which as a 26 year old means they must see some value in him.   Given Lampard is apparently in the market for a replacement for Kepa with Cabalero there as well he is well down pecking order.  The issue will be they would want guaranteed game time if he is loaned; if sold Blackman would probably want to be No. 1 too.  I think I've talked myself out of this!  😆

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on a lot of things 

can our young keepers be recalled ? 
can we sign a emergency loan keeper ? 
if not I would sign another McGovern is not good enough to be no1 if Krul is injured long term 

 

McGovern is No3 ok on bench if Krul is injured And No2. Is playing 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Long time away but probably time I stuck my head back in.

Clear and obvious answer is "yes".

1st counter point - loans and recalls: If Oxborough and Mair are considered to be in need of experience, probably at lower levels, then I think it is safe to say that they are not considered to be ready for first team football just yet. With that in mind, would we have loaned them out with a recall? Oxborough maybe but Mair? Probably not.

Then you have another issue. If you have both of those with a recall, in case the loan doesn't work out etc, or so you can switch loans if a better option comes up to develop them, and you get an injury and want an emergency loan, the likelihood is the league will turn the request down and point to the keepers you have on recall. So then you end up with a keeper you don't think is ready yet.

Both scenarios far from ideal.

2nd counter point - get a keeper in now as competition for Krul and you get them bedded into the team, the style of play, knowing the defenders in front of them and the expectation of being a player at NCFC in the current set up. An emergency loan means that they may have a day to try and adapt to the surroundings including other players. We also may not have a lot of choice, it may be a keeper who is out of contract or who is 2nd or 3rd choice somewhere else.

3rd counter point - mainly re Bill. You are hopeful that your third choice is never called into action. Mainly because it means something has happened to both your 1st and 2nd choice keepers, which is not a situation you want to find your team in. Third choice keepers often are older keepers in the last few seasons of their careers or youngsters with very little experience. These days, usually the former. It's why Andy Marshall was at Villa until he was 38ish and at Millwall when 39. And how Robert Green managed to experience winning the Europa League in 2019 aged 39.

It's not that they are not good enough, it's that like youngsters, they are unlikely to be able to replicate performances of a high enough standard consistently. You just need them as an emergency back up that you hope you never need.

There are no if's, no buts and no maybe's. That is just simply how things are. You have typically two in a match day squad in case of an injury or red card. You have three in a squad to cover that eventuality in the next game when you need one on the bench. Youngsters don't get match day experience without playing. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding recalls, loanees to other EFL clubs can only be recalled during a transfer window, but there is an exception for goalkeepers:

 

55.1.5 Notwithstanding the provisions of Regulation 55.1.1, a Standard Loan of a goalkeeper (but not otherwise) may be subject to a recall clause exercisable at any time.  Any recall may only be implemented:

(a) in extenuating circumstances and with the consent of The League, such extenuating circumstances to be determined in The League's absolute discretion; or

(b) where the Club seeking to exercise the recall has only one Professional Goalkeeper available (applying the criteria set out in Regulations 57.1.1 to 57.1.3 below).  The recall will be subject to not less than 24 hours’ written notice.

A goalkeeper shall not be permitted to resume any Standard Loan following the exercise of a recall.

Guidance

Under Regulation 55.1.5(b), the Club seeking to recall a goalkeeper from another EFL Club due to injury(ies) to other goalkeeper(s) will be required to submit independent medical evidence to substantiate the basis for the recall.  The EFL will not require independent evidence when recalling a player from non-league, but will require a signed confirmation of injuries from the Club doctor.

If all parties are in agreement to an earlier recall, this will be permitted notwithstanding the last sentence of Regulation 55.1.5(b)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Much as I remember City going into 1984/5 with just one senior keeper (we had to get Corrigan on loan when Woods got injured) I think it’s unsafe to go into a season without three keepers you would be prepared to see on the pitch. No 3 would usually be the youngster now it’s the old timer making up the home grown numbers. Has Remi Matthews found a new club yet?

Edited by DanTheMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Welcome back @chicken

👍👍

Good to see you are still active on here Nigel! Hope things are all good with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...