Press considers resumption unlikely

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Why is money more important than football? Null and void seems fair to me. 

 

Simple answer to that is that it's not.

[Badger 2,405]

6 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

There's a financial angle whichever solution they decide to take on.

The question will be whether they can negotiate any kind of palatable financial solution that doesn't mean playing.

If they can find that then the next issue to resolve in European places and then that's the end of the problems for the current season.

The BIG problem comes if next season is impacted heavily as clubs cannot continue to function without crowds.

Yes, you are right.

I'm guessing (and it is only that) that we might get a better financial deal if we play behind closed doors rather than voiding the season. From our own narrow perspective the worst outcome would be voiding the season but deciding relegation/ promotion on some average points scheme. We go down, and with less money that we had budgeted for.

Agree about next season too - all budgets will have assumed that there's be crowds! I guess everyone is praying for a successful vaccine, but the worst case scenario is likely to see a collapse of many clubs without support and some sort of genuinely co-ordinated response, rather than the current PR exercise.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

6 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Simple answer to that is that it's not.

That's what I think. 

The safest way for health reasons is null and void.

The fairest way for football is null and void.

 

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

That's what I think. 

The safest way for health reasons is null and void.

The fairest way for football is null and void.

 

Yep, it's what most sane people think but looks like the powers that be don't see it that way and to hell with the health side of it!?

[Flying Dutchman 744]

4 hours ago, T said:

Rather than press and punter opinion I prefer to take my info from the people who make the decisions who say closed door games to finish the season are conceivable. It needs the cases to be under control and widespread testing available at which point commonsense would be to allow closed door games. 

I have to say this is the most likely outcome, should the season finish. 

But getting fully fit squads without the risk of players and staff being infected is very unlikely across the board, meaning null and void does become somewhat realistic.

How many players need to test positive for even a behind closed doors game to be called off on an individual basis I wonder?

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, you are right.

I'm guessing (and it is only that) that we might get a better financial deal if we play behind closed doors rather than voiding the season. From our own narrow perspective the worst outcome would be voiding the season but deciding relegation/ promotion on some average points scheme. We go down, and with less money that we had budgeted for.

Agree about next season too - all budgets will have assumed that there's be crowds! I guess everyone is praying for a successful vaccine, but the worst case scenario is likely to see a collapse of many clubs without support and some sort of genuinely co-ordinated response, rather than the current PR exercise.

Fortunately as other leagues have demonstrated, you cannot just relegate a team without finishing a season.

Plus the PL is a separate business to EFL so unless they finish their season there cannot be any promotions irrespective of what some fans keeping muting about Leeds and West Brom being promoted. That cannot happen as the legal implications of that would probably bankrupt the EFL as there are many teams who can still claim that they can be promoted.

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

1 hour ago, All the Germans said:

He pressed the 6 before the 7. He meant to write 76, 38 games twice (it took all my willpower to not mention it in my message).

Ah ok, I think 57 will be better, especially with all the behind closed doors games they are trying to push

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

I do not see this season being played to a finish. The Mail had a lengthy piece a few days ago on the horrendous logistical problems of playing matches behind closed doors, with hundreds of people (I have seen estimates from 200 to 500) required at each game. And this for 11 rounds of matches over four divisions. Hundreds of games.

What I can just about see happening is the Premier League being played to a finish in total isolation from the rest of the pyramid, and probably at a few neutral venues, so destroying the integrity of the competition, to achieve two things. Firstly to satisfy the TV companies and secure that money, and secondly to sort out the European qualifying places to secure that money for next season.

[T 190]

6 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

I have to say this is the most likely outcome, should the season finish. 

But getting fully fit squads without the risk of players and staff being infected is very unlikely across the board, meaning null and void does become somewhat realistic.

How many players need to test positive for even a behind closed doors game to be called off on an individual basis I wonder?

Agreed. I woiuld have thought no positive tetss given asympotomatic risk. I would only say it is conceivable that we hve closed door games not that we will or won't as it depends on how things develop. And I haven't seen any info on when the risk is likely to be low enough. If Germany talking about early June at earliest and UK is a few weeks behind Germany in theepedemic development it would probably mean agreement to extend the competition in to the summer. . 

[Monty13 2,234]

54 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear, you seem to be arguing with yourself

football cannot 'cut it's cloth' while it still has these current player contracts.... that is the whole point

What is your point? That the PL would above all else like to see games completed and get all it’s money? Literally no one disagrees that that’s what they’d like to happen.

Doesn’t change the fact that if that can’t happen, which looks increasingly likely, something has to be done either collectively or by individual clubs to cover the shortfall. Thats just reality. The fact is the only place that shortfall can be regained for a lot of clubs, especially outside the PL, is from players.

 

[JF 694]

26 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I do not see this season being played to a finish. The Mail had a lengthy piece a few days ago on the horrendous logistical problems of playing matches behind closed doors, with hundreds of people (I have seen estimates from 200 to 500) required at each game. And this for 11 rounds of matches over four divisions. Hundreds of games.

What I can just about see happening is the Premier League being played to a finish in total isolation from the rest of the pyramid, and probably at a few neutral venues, so destroying the integrity of the competition, to achieve two things. Firstly to satisfy the TV companies and secure that money, and secondly to sort out the European qualifying places to secure that money for next season.

Yes I think there is a slight chance of that happening which brings me to my question earlier in the thread. If the PL is played out as you’ve described and we finish in the bottom 3 but the championship doesn’t finish it’s fixtures then where do we stand on relegation? I would presume the EFL would have broken the contract on promotion and relegation as they didn’t complete their fixtures, even though they will try to conclude on a Ppg basis 

[All the Germans 1,075]

33 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

What I can just about see happening is the Premier League being played to a finish in total isolation from the rest of the pyramid, and probably at a few neutral venues, so destroying the integrity of the competition, to achieve two things. Firstly to satisfy the TV companies and secure that money, and secondly to sort out the European qualifying places to secure that money for next season.

Whilst I agree with you, I am somewhat sympathetic to the people working at the Premier League; their job is to get the best for their organistation. They do have to try to safeguard the money for this and future seasons, it is understandable what they are doing, because, it's their job.

It's equally understandable everyone else questioning the motives of putting money before safety, but what would I do if my job was to maintain the contracts and keep the money coming in for my company (which, in a different industry, it is), I'd do everything I could - within the rules and regulations of the country - to protect the interests of the company.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

2 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Whilst I agree with you, I am somewhat sympathetic to the people working at the Premier League; their job is to get the best for their organistation. They do have to try to safeguard the money for this and future seasons, it is understandable what they are doing, because, it's their job.

It's equally understandable everyone else questioning the motives of putting money before safety, but what would I do if my job was to maintain the contracts and keep the money coming in for my company (which, in a different industry, it is), I'd do everything I could - within the rules and regulations of the country - to protect the interests of the company.

Agree but every other company that is trying to get going again will have to adhere to strict social distancing measures and I assume prove they can.

You can't do that in a sport like football unless either every player is in some kind of suit that can protect them or it's non-contact which makes it pointless (I'm being ironic here just for clarity) 😂

[nutty nigel 7,534]

20 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Whilst I agree with you, I am somewhat sympathetic to the people working at the Premier League; their job is to get the best for their organistation. They do have to try to safeguard the money for this and future seasons, it is understandable what they are doing, because, it's their job.

It's equally understandable everyone else questioning the motives of putting money before safety, but what would I do if my job was to maintain the contracts and keep the money coming in for my company (which, in a different industry, it is), I'd do everything I could - within the rules and regulations of the country - to protect the interests of the company.

There's no doubt that's true. But the fans are the soul of football and football clubs. Or they were ....

[Jim Smith 2,317]

3 hours ago, All the Germans said:

He pressed the 6 before the 7. He meant to write 76, 38 games twice (it took all my willpower to not mention it in my message).

I didn’t actually. Everyone (except a couple of teams) has currently played 29 haven’t they so 29 plus 38. Appreciate that would mean some teams have played harder sides twice whilst some others haven’t so yes perhaps 76 would be better!

[All the Germans 1,075]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I didn’t actually. Everyone (except a couple of teams) has currently played 29 haven’t they so 29 plus 38. Appreciate that would mean some teams have played harder sides twice whilst some others haven’t so yes perhaps 76 would be better!

Apologies, I made the wrong assumption! I think if we are going to do a 2 season, season, it has to be 76 ames, so that everyone plays everyone four times.

12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

There's no doubt that's true. But the fans are the soul of football and football clubs. Or they were ....

That stopped long ago. Fans are consumers and as long as we continue to consume,  they cannot or will not change, unless it benefits them to do so. As long as they get the money in - ultimately from the fans by a variety of means - they care little what we think, only what we (continue to) pay.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

5 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Apologies, I made the wrong assumption! I think if we are going to do a 2 season, season, it has to be 76 ames, so that everyone plays everyone four times.

That stopped long ago. Fans are consumers and as long as we continue to consume,  they cannot or will not change, unless it benefits them to do so. As long as they get the money in - ultimately from the fans by a variety of means - they care little what we think, only what we (continue to) pay.

To a degree.

It's true to say a lot of fans have really brought in to it. Money, and specifically other people's money, is very important to many fans now. And there are definitely more tv fans than fans in the stadium. 

[All the Germans 1,075]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

To a degree.

It's true to say a lot of fans have really brought in to it. Money, and specifically other people's money, is very important to many fans now. And there are definitely more tv fans than fans in the stadium. 

Nothing wrong with a TV fan! I live 200+ miles away! Agree wholeheartedly that people are very interested in others money and even quicker to spend it for them.

Edited April 26, 2020 by All the Germans

[nutty nigel 7,534]

9 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Nothing wrong with a TV fan! I live 200+ miles away! Agree wholeheartedly that people are very interested in others money and even quicker to spend it for them.

I agree there's nothing wrong with you🙃

[nutty nigel 7,534]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I agree there's nothing wrong with you🙃

All joking aside the tv game and stadium game are very different experiences only united by the game stats after the game. If that makes sense. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Yep, it's what most sane people think but looks like the powers that be don't see it that way and to hell with the health side of it!?

I question whether the powers that be do have or wield any power.

Courtesy of Double N and others we have seen videos of when we competed with and often were better than many teams we cannot match at all.

Now, a cartel of clubs who are obsessed with the CL are changing this game into a version of F1. And they tell the powers that be what is going to happen not the other way round.

I am getting more concerned every time I here the pundits talking about playing behind closed doors and totally ignoring the real reason professional football exists. The fans.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

4 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere but would a fairish solution not be to extend the season over two years so the prem becomes a 67 game season and everyone continues from their current position so that in effect you skip to next season but Liverpool have a big gear start as do Leeds and WBA in the champ? Whereas we obviously start 7 points adrift. 
 

sure there are imperfections with the above bit surprised it’s not been mooted. 

Someone suggested this on another thread a couple of weeks ago. It does mean that the efforts of the current season don't go unrewarded but will the EPL want to do it bearing in mind that Liverpool have virtually won it before the season even starts? 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Someone suggested this on another thread a couple of weeks ago. It does mean that the efforts of the current season don't go unrewarded but will the EPL want to do it bearing in mind that Liverpool have virtually won it before the season even starts? 

Surely the other issue here is contractual. A lot of bonuses, fees, clauses, etc etc are tied around the traditional notion of a football season. Extending it into two years is going to cause a lot of legal wrangling over what those clauses mean in light of an extended season like that. 

[Van wink 2,994]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I do not see this season being played to a finish. The Mail had a lengthy piece a few days ago on the horrendous logistical problems of playing matches behind closed doors, with hundreds of people (I have seen estimates from 200 to 500) required at each game. And this for 11 rounds of matches over four divisions. Hundreds of games.

What I can just about see happening is the Premier League being played to a finish in total isolation from the rest of the pyramid, and probably at a few neutral venues, so destroying the integrity of the competition, to achieve two things. Firstly to satisfy the TV companies and secure that money, and secondly to sort out the European qualifying places to secure that money for next season.

"What I can just about see happening is the Premier League being played to a finish in total isolation from the rest of the pyramid, and probably at a few neutral venues"

When I had my very nice "how are you" call from the club last week we had a long chat about this, the option appeared to be playing all the games at St Georges, having all the EPL clubs down there and playing the outstanding games over a few weeks using the number of pitches they have there. One of the big concerns was the risk, for example, of thousands of Liverpool fans trying to make their way down there on the days that they were playing. 

[The Real Buh 3,432]

The schism in football was coming anyway but all of this will deeply scar football forever. 
 

It’s a scar that won’t heal, maybe ever. I think the money and the BS of particularly the premier league has been laid bare. The immorality of it all is sickening. 
 

The schism is between fans that don’t care about any of the financial inequality or the immorality, who laugh at it all and will accept it all, and those who have reached their limit. They love football but want a purer less polluted version of the game.

[JF 694]

9 minutes ago, Van wink said:

"What I can just about see happening is the Premier League being played to a finish in total isolation from the rest of the pyramid, and probably at a few neutral venues"

When I had my very nice "how are you" call from the club last week we had a long chat about this, the option appeared to be playing all the games at St Georges, having all the EPL clubs down there and playing the outstanding games over a few weeks using the number of pitches they have there. One of the big concerns was the risk, for example, of thousands of Liverpool fans trying to make their way down there on the days that they were playing. 

The latest plan I’ve seen is Manchester City’s training ground for teams up north, St George’s park and Wembley but as I’ve said a few times now I’d like to know where we stand regarding relegation with all this? The integrity of the competition has gone, we will now play our remaining ‘home’ matches in a neutral behind closed doors venue and if the championship doesn’t conclude but the PL does how can the relegation/Promotion contract that’s in place not have been broken? 

[Van wink 2,994]

I don’t think the club believe any of this will happen, it’s all over for this season.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

I don’t think the club believe any of this will happen, it’s all over for this season.

That's why it won't happen.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

I don't think extending the season into the next would be a great outcome for NCFC. Already 7 points adrift and a very tight financial position would make it very difficult for us to strengthen the squad. Also the vultures would swoop on our perceived better players, making it even worse. Almost certain relegation but we'll get another season of EPL TV revenue.

I still believe the season will be cancelled with no promotion or relegation. A BCD mini league/play-off might be possible for European places, but on the basis that domestic leagues will not complete throughout Europe then the situation could be resolved by just allowing those clubs which qualified for this season to take part in the next.

[JF 694]

5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I don’t think the club believe any of this will happen, it’s all over for this season.

I don’t think it will either but there is a outside chance that this 3 stadium plan may actually happen, don’t underestimate the PL’s desire to get their remaining money and it will do everything it can to make it happen. If the government think this will “boost” the nation as reports are suggesting then we will play our remaining matches this way. What the Championship do to complete their season is a concern for us though as I see no way teams can be relegated from a league that did finish it’s fixtures into one that didn’t