Corona Virus main thread

[sonyc 5,526]

26 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

No one can categorically prove the eyesightgate to a legal definitive. It's just nobody I have heard in my life, would take their wife ( on her birthday) and child on a 50 mile round trip if I was testing my eyesight. I would not go that far, and take a break at a beauty spot, if I was that keen on getting back to support the Country. He makes 'critical' decisions every day, but please don't say that he would be emotionally overwhelmed with making a decision about his family. It doesn't take a couple of hours round trip to decide if you can drive 4 hours. Which doctor gave him the go ahead? Was it a zoom type appt? Diagnosis? Conversation? Was it his own doctor? I guess, with his position, he might not have to wait a fortnight like the great unwashed.

Most people waited to hear what Cummings had to say before making their minds up, and most of us know when we are being taking the P out of, LDC. Like you said, the more you analyse it, the more stupid it looks.

He himself said he makes lots of mistakes a day. He's in the wrong job with so much at stake, would you not think?

You just have to marvel at all of this and ask why, if you were 100% convinced you'd done nothing wrong why you would construct a carefully worded 7 to 8 page typed letter, drafted by a lawyer, then sit in the back garden of 10 Downing Street and hold court. 

Why not just speak to the press more informally or in a normal interview? Why not release a statement quietly? If you really couldn't be bothered that is. Or if you wanted to really make yourself the centre of attention and get the whole country watching you, you create a Rose Garden speech.

So, now, ignoring all the was he/wasn't he questions ...because folk seem decided on that....

(1) what on earth could be the reason for Cummings doing that?

(2) which PM in our lifetime would permit/allow/facilitate this kind of event? And as an adjoint to this, WHY?

Answer both these questions and you are getting somewhere.

It's beautiful choreography / hollowly contemptible (you choose which term), cheeky / or taking the p*ss (you choose again your take).

[Creative Midfielder 1,998]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Yeah, like I said, for some people everything has to be black or white.

I think you'll find that for the plebs who've actually been prosecuted for breaking the lockdown that is exactly what it is.

And even if you overlook the Durham trip, which we're never going to because that was also quite clearly a breach of the rules, but the Barnard Castle trip was exactly what many ordinary people have been prosecuted for.

And whilst I don't often agree with Bill he was exactly right a couple of days ago that whilst the original offence(s) weren't hanging offences, the lies and the cover up that followed are - and those implicate not just Cummings himself but his wife (why is she still in her job???) and of course Johnson himself - this type of conduct would probably be regarded as normal in a third world country but in the UK it is disgusting and demeans the whole country.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Creative Midfielder

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

19 minutes ago, Herman said:

There's a massive surprise. 😂

Who owns Serco and G4S and why do they constantly get massive government contracts? Have they got access to Dominic's secret file? 

Then there's

Two former Conservative MPs have been appointed to senior tourism jobs despite an apparent lack of direct experience in the sector, prompting accusations of cronyism within government.

Sir Patrick McLoughlin and Nick de Bois have been given roles at the British Tourist Authority and VisitEngland respectively, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) said on Wednesday.

McLoughlin, who stepped down as an MP at December’s election, has been made chair of the BTA board, which is the ultimate governing body of VisitBritain, the UK’s main national tourism quango. The role pays £40,000 a year for an average of two days a week.

And

Against the advice of his own planning inspector, the minister gave the go-ahead for the construction of more than 1,500 apartments in a 44-storey complex on 14 January. Jenrick’s decision was made just 24 hours before the Tower Hamlets CIL would have cost Desmond at least £40m.

The Desmond here is Richard Desmond, Tory donor and arch Brexiteer.

[sonyc 5,526]

8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The Cummings issue is over, he is guilty and should have resigned, he hasn’t and that must colour people’s views of the government both now and in the future.

However the bigger issue in terms of coronavirus is that track and trace is successful, it’s the only method we have of controlling spread of the virus atm and people have to stick to the rules, because it’s the right thing to do for the health of all of us. To disregard the rules using Cummings as an excuse puts people in the same stable as him. 

It's a lovely distraction to have whilst quietly you keep the comparative death totals off the front page, the failures of your administration on CV strategy, your bills passing through parliament with little scrutiny (nicely by remote / digital means), little challenge on no EU agreement or B extension, little scrutiny of the deals with other countries (read US), the diminution of the Human Rights Act, the immigration policy...so on.

It's perfect timing. Not that it was deliberate but certainly neatly timed (and choreographed).

Now, the more one reads round the subject (as I have in recent weeks) the more eye opening it all is. Count me down for one of the gullible ones, just getting on with life. Look up from time to time though and it's not good what you see (and from someone who has spent thousands of hours in front of people in one to one's).

T & T at last eh.

[sonyc 5,526]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Then there's

Two former Conservative MPs have been appointed to senior tourism jobs despite an apparent lack of direct experience in the sector, prompting accusations of cronyism within government.

Sir Patrick McLoughlin and Nick de Bois have been given roles at the British Tourist Authority and VisitEngland respectively, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) said on Wednesday.

McLoughlin, who stepped down as an MP at December’s election, has been made chair of the BTA board, which is the ultimate governing body of VisitBritain, the UK’s main national tourism quango. The role pays £40,000 a year for an average of two days a week.

And

Against the advice of his own planning inspector, the minister gave the go-ahead for the construction of more than 1,500 apartments in a 44-storey complex on 14 January. Jenrick’s decision was made just 24 hours before the Tower Hamlets CIL would have cost Desmond at least £40m.

The Desmond here is Richard Desmond, Tory donor and arch Brexiteer.

Spot on. When you see how the pandemic has been handled using large private sector behemoths like Servco and G4S rather than a regionalised structure you can see why it is less flexible. This party has always preferred those kinds of companies (but it started under Blair). Local councils have felt marginalised.

On a side note, localised lockdowns will be an interesting phenomena if we need them.

[sonyc 5,526]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-worlds-highest-covid-19-22098657?

We haven't had much focus on graphs or data because of the Cummings issue.

Excess deaths article attached. South American countries may overtake the UK.

PS. Should add the source is the Financial Times that The Mirror is referencing

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by sonyc

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

44 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Maybe it was drafted by a lawyer maybe it wasnt.   Maybe a lawyer reviewed it maybe they didn't. Maybe legal advice was taken, maybe it wasnt.

What point are you trying to make?  That taking  legal advice is proof of guilt?, that a person is not entitled to legal advice? 

I saw the DAG clip,  seemed pretty thin  to me (he left a space at the bottom, it was in the first person, he concentrates on the relevant areas) but mainly i watched it thinking - so what if it was?

I wasn't making any point. I decided yesterday to stop posting on the rights and wrongs of this, on the basis that I'd said all I needed to say. But I will restart if you think the thread needs me.

Nothing in my post could possibly be read as indicating that I hold either of those beliefs. Cummings' statement was very carefuly prepared. i was simply musing on whether he had prepared equally carefully for the Q&A that followed, not least because some reports of the event suggested his answers were not as fluent or convincing as they might have been.

In his position I would certainly had gone through a mock interrogation, so I was ready for all the questions I anticipated would be asked, and those I hadn't thought of, with my lawyer on hand to make sure nothing I said in reply undercut my statement. That they tallied.

[SteveN8458 64]

Just a quick Question:

How many of you who are unhappy about the governments handling of the Cummings situation have taken the time to email your MP to voice your thoughts/concerns?

And yes I have.

[sonyc 5,526]

Yes, and got a reply too within an hour.

[Barbe bleu 827]

[Barbe bleu 827]

29 minutes ago, sonyc said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-worlds-highest-covid-19-22098657?

We haven't had much focus on graphs or data because of the Cummings issue.

Excess deaths article attached. South American countries may overtake the UK.

PS. Should add the source is the Financial Times that The Mirror is referencing

 

Yes certainly seems like south America is the epicentre now.  Brazil is reporting 20,000 new cases and 1000 deaths a day.   I dont know much about brazil but I dont think it is  a stretch to say that these are an underestimate of overall figures. 

 Peru figures bad as well, reports that they are dealing with another epidemic right now so could be inflated but if it's bad in both Peru and Brazil (and was bad in Ecuador too) then likely bad across the north and centre of the continent.

I'm  ot sure that excess deaths over a snapshot period are the gold standard that the FT has them as but a very good guide for sure and the figures in S Amercian cities are terrible.

I'll not mention seasonality again...

[ricardo 7,395]

No sports allowing close contact allowed in Switzerland but **** workers get the ok😉

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

34 minutes ago, SteveN8458 said:

Just a quick Question:

How many of you who are unhappy about the governments handling of the Cummings situation have taken the time to email your MP to voice your thoughts/concerns?

And yes I have.

Three times and only getting an automated reply. My MP is George Eustice, one of the conspirators.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Three times and only getting an automated reply. My MP is George Eustice, one of the conspirators.

Probably round at Gordon Ramsay's  house(s)  explaining how they got Cummins to distract  the flak that was heading Gordon's way. Arrogant to$$ers .

[BigFish 1,988]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I am sure David Allen Green is right that Cummings’ statement was drafted by a lawyer. What I wondered was whether Cummings practised before the press conference with a mock session, in which he answered the questions he expected to be asked, and if so whether there was a lawyer there to advise on those replies and even suggest changes.

You would expect that to be the case PC.

DAG is now working this up into a wider piece that examines how the Cummings/Wakefield explanation evolved over the six weeks between when the Guardian first contacted them for clarification and the release of the story. Seems like they fed a variety of different variations into the press, some alledgedly via Laura Keunssberg. Not clear why although two leading explanations are they were seeing how each played out and/or it then allowed them to claim the press had misreported the story (even though they were the source of the misinformation). Looking forward to that.

Personally I think Johnson has invested too much in this to let Cummings go but this is not going away. Suits too many people, the drip drip drip of Johnson losing support. By the end of June what price on Labout polling ahead of the Tories?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

On Monday, will we have a different definition of what "fully operational" means as Di(l)do herself has just told MP's it will not be until the end of June?

Just as they will all be in the mailing room of Number 10 on Sunday, sending out tests to reach the 200K target.

[sonyc 5,526]

Widely reported last night that they were not ready, in terms of being able to  accept data. Report suggested next week T and T might be fully ready.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, SteveN8458 said:

Just a quick Question:

How many of you who are unhappy about the governments handling of the Cummings situation have taken the time to email your MP to voice your thoughts/concerns?

And yes I have.

Yep, took two days for a comprehensive reply/ cop out.

[sonyc 5,526]

This is a big story (but an unpopular subject). Reading on here I realise we have a few people working in the health industry.

 

Coronavirus is whipping up a mental health storm for NHS workers

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/28/coronavirus-mental-health-storm-nhs-workers?

 

[Aggy 755]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I tried to be humble by dressing like a lot of you council house types

I can’t be the only one who shouted “tuck your shirt in properly” at the screen when he walked out to the press conference.
 

Just added to the air of “This whole thing is so far below me”.

 

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

....the bigger issue in terms of coronavirus is that track and trace is successful, it’s the only method we have of controlling spread of the virus atm and people have to stick to the rules, because it’s the right thing to do for the health of all of us. To disregard the rules using Cummings as an excuse puts people in the same stable as him. 

By all accounts the Track & Trace system is a complete dog's breakfast and there is massive infighting among those involved. Without a doubt it was only announced yesterday in a desparate attempt to take the heat out of the Cummings story. It is simply not ready, the famous app (due mid-May) has multiple issues preventing roll-out (hence the fact there is no estimated delivery date) and staff haven't been trained. Cummings (and therefore the government) doesn't trust the civil service & local government. Only weeks ago it became obvious that the centralised team and their outsourcing privatised partners didn't have competency to deliver and they were forced to change tack and include regional and local public health officials WHO ALREADY DO THIS.

It is so depressing. Beyond the fact that Cummings/Johnson are lying elitist sociopaths I would trust them to run a bath let alone the country.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Spot on. When you see how the pandemic has been handled using large private sector behemoths like Servco and G4S rather than a regionalised structure you can see why it is less flexible. This party has always preferred those kinds of companies (but it started under Blair). Local councils have felt marginalised.

On a side note, localised lockdowns will be an interesting phenomena if we need them.

Local Councils, County in this case have only recently been written to. Local DPH have been marginalised until now.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Van wink

[Mr Angry 1,563]

36 minutes ago, ricardo said:

No sports allowing close contact allowed in Switzerland but **** workers get the ok😉

But only oral judging by the picture 🤣

[BigFish 1,988]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

On Monday, will we have a different definition of what "fully operational" means as Di(l)do herself has just told MP's it will not be until the end of June?

Just as they will all be in the mailing room of Number 10 on Sunday, sending out tests to reach the 200K target.

This!

[ricardo 7,395]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

 

Coronavirus is whipping up a mental health storm for NHS workers

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/28/coronavirus-mental-health-storm-nhs-workers?

 

No mention of Pinkun Posters in there then?

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

No mention of Pinkun Posters in there then?

More likely see a mention in the gardening section.

[Mr Angry 1,563]

5 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I can’t be the only one who shouted “tuck your shirt in properly” at the screen when he walked out to the press conference.
 

Just added to the air of “This whole thing is so far below me”.

 

Has anyone else commented on the bulge in his tracksuit trousers? I didn’t notice but my wife pointed it out and it does look quite obscene. She also thought there were some suspicious stains but I couldn’t tell 🤮🤮🤮

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

No mention of Pinkun Posters in there then?

Its compulsory on here isn't it.

How were the Fish and Chips by the way? Were they ecstatically good or a bit of a disappointment?

[BigFish 1,988]

Dominic Cummings did break lockdown rules when he made a 50-mile journey to Barnard Castle, an investigation by Durham Police has concluded.

The Prime Minister’s most senior aide claimed he made the trip on Easter Sunday, with his wife and four-year-old son, to check he was fit to drive after suffering coronavirus-related eyesight problems.

Mr Cummings insisted he had acted “lawfully and reasonably” at all times when he made the 260-mile journey from London to Durham to self-isolate at his parents’ farm at the end of March.

But The Telegraph has learned that an investigation by Durham Police has concluded he did commit a "minor breach" of the guidelines when he drove to Barnard Castle on April 12.

However the force, which according to the most recent data, has issued 137 fines for lockdown breaches, said it would not be taking any further action against Mr Cummings.

[ricardo 7,395]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

No mention of Pinkun Posters in there then?

Its compulsory on here isn't it.

How were the Fish and Chips by the way? Were they ecstatically good or a bit of a disappointment?

Ecstasy at the time of eating but I paid for it later.😁