Corona Virus main thread

[Bagster 101]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Here's the rub.

Law Makers can't be Law Breakers.

Yet that's what Cummings and by the PMs and Cabinet defence of such are. The rules and laws that they worded. Let alone the pathetic cover-up.

I regard myself as law abiding yet I will not know accept any edict, unless I deem it sensible from such low life. I have standards of behaviour to uphold even if they clearly don't.

That's the size of the damage they have done to their credibility in anything!

 

 

 

Here is the real rub

Those who hate him, still hate him and those that don't still don't 

[ron obvious 1,502]

14 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I'm a bit touchy about it Bagster. Probably shouldn't have posted, wasnt meant as an attack on you. It just gave me the opportunity to fight their corner I guess. I've learned so much about it in the last few years and wish the education I've had went to a wider audience.

 

 

I don't think it's dementia, but I'm sure there's something wrong with him. He's off the scale.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

21 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I don't think it's dementia, but I'm sure there's something wrong with him. He's off the scale.

Yep, I like a good Pi$$ take, and ribbing Tillo about his wag files is fun, but 'you know who ' had to go too far,  stating that Benny posted pictures of half naked teenagers...not true and a bit unsavoury even for a leathery skinned outdoor boy like myself. Is unhinged Canary still around as Billious  must be furious that someone nabbed his real name. I have been accused of being bagstero , despite having an almost polar opposite political view as him. Then I was Jayeffo , despite  having a wager with Jayeffo about whether or not DF will still be with us first game of next season.

Half the problem is his tendency to assume that everyone else is wrong...even on matters of opinion , not fact. This makes him look ridiculous.  I fear his self awareness gland was removed along with his tonsils, or appendix.  The guy is clearly bright, as is Cummins but therein lies the problem ...one man's intellect does not diminish  another's. There is plenty of room in this board / world for lots of bright people, not just one. His obsession  with always being the rightest, quickest to respond etc. however, leads to endless typos  and not  particularly well opined  posts. In short a scattergun approach that achieves little an alienates  many.

Edited May 28, 2020 by wcorkcanary

[Mr Angry 1,555]

1 hour ago, Bagster said:

At the start of the pandemic , the NHS hotline was overwhelmed

You only knew that if you knew people who were sick, my brother was very sick. Thank you for your famous lefty empathy.

Bill , apparently I'm now RTB. You need help , did you forget already, maybe you have dementia.

For those that wonder why I described the reaction as outrage!

Wall to wall coverage by MSM , 360 k signatures on a petition to get a man sacked in 3 days.

People in DC's Street shouting abuse, a toxic media scrum all breaking social distancing.

So let's compare this to say, the grooming gangs report.

120k signatures over 2 to 3 months

One little article in the independent

Read this , sign this and share this, it's time for some perspective

http://chng.it/ThfDgtBZRC

Signed!

[Bagster 101]

Here is how I see it

Imagine your at work, you have something that is coming that is unprecedented and getting it wrong means people die!

You can imagine the stress levels are high, really high. It's also a certainty that you've been working long hours and your tired 

You then find out your boss is sick, you're probably infected and your wife is coming down with symptoms.

You're probably a bit panicked as to what to do, you pick up your family and head for safety, in this case, your mum and dad.

Totally natural don't you think, if you both get sick you have mum and dad

I'll be honest, you lefties disappoint me in so many ways

No empathy for the fact he's just human

None at all

Your behaviour has been disgraceful

Edited May 28, 2020 by Bagster
Spelling

[sonyc 5,517]

I think the key is not to feel got at, despite any provocation (a challenge in itself). To see any criticism for what it is. There is then, never any need to fall out with anyone. To be outraged by another poster is just to be outraged about yourself ultimately. Because you're owning it. 

Bill is very personal with some posters. Yet that to me also means he has a relationship with them  and vice versa (not a personal one) and not one poster would really want harm to another. If folk didn't respond then that implies no relationship, but the fact remains, people do. And it gets personalised and then a thread breaks down.

Same with this Cummings issue. One gets enraged because somehow it affects your own set of values. See your own values for what they are and the outrage slips away quite easily. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by sonyc

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

3 minutes ago, Bagster said:

Here is how I see it

Imagine your at work, you have something that is coming that is unprecedented and getting it wrong means people die!

You can image the stress levels are high, really high. It's also a certainty that you've been working long hours and your tired 

You then find out your boss is sick, you're probably infected and your wife is coming down with symptoms.

You're probably a bit panicked as to what to do, you pick up your family and head for safety, in this case, your mum and dad.

Totally natural don't you think, if you both get sick you have mum and dad

I'll be honest, you lefties disappoint me in so many ways

No empathy for the fact he's just human

None at all

Your behaviour has been disgraceful

Unfortunately  many humans do things that render them pariahs.  I'm sure you know what I mean. I understand why he did what he did, doesnt make it right though. To use your own  story above, what if his actions caused infection to his parents or others. He was irresponsible.  No escaping that.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

1 minute ago, Bagster said:

Here is how I see it

Imagine your at work, you have something that is coming that is unprecedented and getting it wrong means people die!

You can image the stress levels are high, really high. It's also a certainty that you've been working long hours and your tired 

You then find out your boss is sick, you're probably infected and your wife is coming down with symptoms.

You're probably a bit panicked as to what to do, you pick up your family and head for safety, in this case, your mum and dad.

Totally natural don't you think, if you both get sick you have mum and dad

I'll be honest, you lefties disappoint me in so many ways

No empathy for the fact he's just human

None at all

Your behaviour has been disgraceful

Except he went back to work that afternoon, having not even done the really obvious thing which was to phone his doctor and ask for all three of them to be tested for the virus.

[sonyc 5,517]

Cummings is an exception perhaps. And he knows it. If you've seen the way he walks through number 10s garden and leans at the front door. Clearly odd behaviour for an advisor would you not think Bagster? 

[Bagster 101]

@PurpleCanaryI agree the really obvious thing to someone who is not tired , not stressed , maybe someone at home sat on the computer judging people.

 

[Bagster 101]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Cummings is an exception perhaps. And he knows it. If you've seen the way he walks through number 10s garden and leans at the front door. Clearly odd behaviour for an advisor would you not think Bagster? 

I have ADHD, my son is autistic .

His behaviour is odd, to you.

He reminds me of me, is that a crime, should we punish him for not being "normal"

Edited May 28, 2020 by Bagster
Spelling

[Yellow Fever 3,781]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Same with this Cummings issue. One gets enraged because somehow it affects your own set of values. See your own values for what they are and the outrage slips away quite easily. 

Yes - I agree with - I have a set of values as to right and wrong. A moral code. 

Cummings decision was not a difficult call taken in good faith that went awry but  a deliberate breach of his own rules, guidelines let alone the law. He got found out. Resign.

I'm ashamed of those that seek to govern us have so little moral fibre - are so duplicitous.

However - I now accept this -  a diminished and demeaned England laughed at and belittled internationally - yet absolutely no point arguing with those that seem to defend such actions. They are cut from the same cloth.

[sonyc 5,517]

8 minutes ago, Bagster said:

I have ADHD, my son is autistic .

His behaviour is odd, to you.

He reminds me of me, is that a crime, should we punish him for not being "normal"

No punishment from me. I'm observing his behaviour not judging him as a person. Two quite different things B. Never met the fella to know him.

Yet I have an opinion on his behaviour.

Same in domestic violence cases if we want to make this more real. People are people with good and bad bits. Yet, we can call out bad behaviour as being unacceptable.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

35 minutes ago, Bagster said:

I'll be honest, you lefties disappoint me in so many ways

😂 That's a cross we are used to bearing, although I'll be honest and say it disappoints me that you choose to see it as even relevant to left/right or party politics at all.

In case you hadn't noticed there has been a ministerial resignation, over 50 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go and many, many thousands of very angry Tory voters berating their MPs about his conduct - must all be closet lefties I guess  🤣

 

 

[Bagster 101]

Why is it bad behaviour if no one is harmed?

He has a problem with authority, we should all know this by now.

He's not interested in politics in the way we see politics, he dares to ask the question "why"?

It's such an important question that is rarely asked in the establishment.

He will of told you the truth as he sees it, maybe it's not as perfect as you would like but stop for one moment, he is not a Tory, he is anti austerity, pro investment, pro environment, anti homelessness.

They are all honourable and agreeable I would imagine to the left 

He will, if he is like me, think differently to you, it's not a crime to be different

The left is supposed to have empathy, understanding , be inclusive ,in favour of workers rights and be the anti bully

The problem is , I can see the opposite to that happening.

This happened at the end of March, it was not a problem before MSM made it one. The left then jumped on to the bandwagon because you hate brexit in truth.

You hate DC because he won Brexit, you haven't given him any credit for policies that can be attributed to him.

The pandemic has been a massive f up but that you can blame on previous governments, maybe a bit on this one but come on, it's been one hell of a debut

[sonyc 5,517]

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

😂 That's a cross we are used to bearing, although I'll be honest and say it disappoints me that you choose to see it as even relevant to left/right or party politics at all.

In case you hadn't noticed there has been a ministerial resignation, over 50 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go and many, many thousands of very angry Tory voters berating their MPs about his conduct - must all be closet lefties I guess  🤣

 

 

Even the shires are angry.

[Bagster 101]

2 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

😂 That's a cross we are used to bearing, although I'll be honest and say it disappoints me that you choose to see it as even relevant to left/right or party politics at all.

In case you hadn't noticed there has been a ministerial resignation, over 50 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go and many, many thousands of very angry Tory voters berating their MPs about his conduct - must all be closet lefties I guess  🤣

 

 

I have noticed, it's a shame you haven't.

DC is not a Tory , some hate him for brexit, others hate him for his influence, others still hate him for his spending and not very Tory agenda

Surprised you support them CM

[sonyc 5,517]

1 minute ago, Bagster said:

Why is it bad behaviour if no one is harmed?

He has a problem with authority, we should all know this by now.

He's not interested in politics in the way we see politics, he dares to ask the question "why"?

It's such an important question that is rarely asked in the establishment.

He will of told you the truth as he sees it, maybe it's not as perfect as you would like but stop for one moment, he is not a Tory, he is anti austerity, pro investment, pro environment, anti homelessness.

They are all honourable and agreeable I would imagine to the left 

He will, if he is like me, think differently to you, it's not a crime to be different

The left is supposed to have empathy, understanding , be inclusive ,in favour of workers rights and be the anti bully

The problem is , I can see the opposite to that happening.

This happened at the end of March, it was not a problem before MSM made it one. The left then jumped on to the bandwagon because you hate brexit in truth.

You hate DC because he won Brexit, you haven't given him any credit for policies that can be attributed to him.

The pandemic has been a massive f up but that you can blame on previous governments, maybe a bit on this one but come on, it's been one hell of a debut

What if I complain or criticise Blair then for what he did? His actions? Or Corbyn's mistakes in not apologising for anti semitism out right? 

Nowt to do with Brexit (ok I will qualify, I'm sure there will be an element but not the central issue) or being a "leftie". Labels don't really help (as you've pointed out in terms of yourself or your son).

Blair and Corbyn's actions just as unacceptable in my mind. 

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Here's the rub.

Law Makers can't be Law Breakers.

Yet that's what Cummings and by the PMs and Cabinet defence of such are. The rules and laws that they worded. Let alone the pathetic cover-up.

I regard myself as law abiding yet I will not now accept any edict, unless I deem it sensible from such low life. I have standards of behaviour to uphold even if they clearly don't.

That's the size of the damage they have done to their credibility in anything!

Yes. Leaving aside whether DC broke any specific law, the Government has committed a major error In their handling of this issue. Breaking a perhaps vague law or not is one thing, but the hubris in dismissing these claims and the example set to the public is another if the result is to have destroyed public trust. 

So, keeping this on CV related topics, more questions are going to be asked about why we are re-opening shops, or especially pubs and schools, if there is not yet clarity over the ability to track & trace? 

Along with reports this morning the track & trace program was advanced from a June 1 start to today but is running into operational issues does suggest that this is another rush to be seen to be doing something, and these actions are being taken primarily for the sake of providing positive spin in order to deflect from oversight and to protect a political ally. 

That will cause many other problems for this Government outside of COVID-19 response,  but that is probably more appropriate to discuss in other threads. 
 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Surfer

[Bagster 101]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

What if I complain or criticise Blair then for what he did? His actions? Or Corbyn's mistakes in not apologising for anti semitism out right? 

Nowt to do with Brexit (ok I will qualify, I'm sure there will be an element but not the central issue) or being a "leftie". Labels don't really help (as you've pointed out in terms of yourself or your son).

Blair and Corbyn's actions just as unacceptable in my mind. 

So Blair had an illegal war, DC drove to Durham

Ok that's not an over reaction then

Not sure what Corbyn did other than being not great

[Herman 9,758]

Dig upwards Bagster. 

[sonyc 5,517]

2 minutes ago, Bagster said:

So Blair had an illegal war, DC drove to Durham

Ok that's not an over reaction then

Not sure what Corbyn did other than being not great

Point being made that it isn't a question of crudely splitting the subject (Cummings's actions) into left and right or into crude labelling.

[Bagster 101]

Ok I should not call people lefties 🙂

ok now thingy ma bob

[Bagster 101]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Dig upwards Bagster. 

So you have nothing ( as usual)

Next 😉

[Mr Angry 1,555]

1 hour ago, Bagster said:

Here is how I see it

Imagine your at work, you have something that is coming that is unprecedented and getting it wrong means people die!

You can imagine the stress levels are high, really high. It's also a certainty that you've been working long hours and your tired 

You then find out your boss is sick, you're probably infected and your wife is coming down with symptoms.

You're probably a bit panicked as to what to do, you pick up your family and head for safety, in this case, your mum and dad.

Totally natural don't you think, if you both get sick you have mum and dad

I'll be honest, you lefties disappoint me in so many ways

No empathy for the fact he's just human

None at all

Your behaviour has been disgraceful

It’s not just lefties who are appalled at his behaviour 😳

[Bagster 101]

No I get that but understand the circumstances, then understand the man.

He will not understand why you are appalled because he thinks differently to you.

He just reacted naturally in his own way, dismiss him if you wish, hate him if you wish.

But don't ever moan about the lack of cognitive diversity in our world when you can't understand it when you see it.

He meant no harm , that is the central issue

Judge him on that not on your perception or the perception of a dying MSM pushing their own narrow agenda.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

33 minutes ago, Bagster said:

Why is it bad behaviour if no one is harmed

So drink driving , without ( luckily) causing anyone harm is not bad behaviour. Discharging a firearm? Spitting in the street?

Rightyho,glad we are all free to do what the **** we like as long as we are fortunate enough not to harm anyone. If this is your standpoint then I fully understand  why you defend him. Laughable, but I understand. 

[Bagster 101]

Well no 

He didn't do any of that did he?

You just made that up

He drove to Durham and then to Durham castle

 

 

[ron obvious 1,502]

1 hour ago, Bagster said:

Here is how I see it

Imagine your at work, you have something that is coming that is unprecedented and getting it wrong means people die!

You can imagine the stress levels are high, really high. It's also a certainty that you've been working long hours and your tired 

You then find out your boss is sick, you're probably infected and your wife is coming down with symptoms.

You're probably a bit panicked as to what to do, you pick up your family and head for safety, in this case, your mum and dad.

Totally natural don't you think, if you both get sick you have mum and dad

I'll be honest, you lefties disappoint me in so many ways

No empathy for the fact he's just human

None at all

Your behaviour has been disgraceful

In some ways one of the most remarkable incidents happened right at the beginning of this saga.

It was Cummings' reaction to finding out Boris had Covid 19:

he ran. Ran clean out the door of no. 10.

Now that is not a normal reaction. Did anyone else react like that? Given the closeness of his working with Johnson (& many others) he must have realised his chances of being infected were sky high, but running away like that?

To put it bluntly, I reckon he was soiling himself. I think that was his frame of mind when he decided to get out ASAP.

I think he's odd. I think his personality displays aspects of autism, & his reaction suggests to me that he doesn't deal rationally with the threat of illness. If so it would go some way to explain, if not excuse, his subsequent actions.

 

 

 

 

[Herman 9,758]

You've turned into Jools,Bagster. Lots of whataboutery and yeah-buttery but no real admittance of making mistakes. If he had held his hands up apologised we may have moved on. He dug deep instead dragging the PM and sundry lickspittles down with him.