So sad

[lappinitup 629]

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/461344/how-has-this-been-allowed-to-happen/#4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

[JF 694]

Particularly liked the “we’ve been the dominant club for decades” comment!! Maybe he means we haven’t been dominant over them for decades?

[splendidrush 720]

So much misinformation on there. Blaming Evans for not investing, when he's been baling them out for over 10 years. The debt now up to 95 million and set to rise now they're in League One. 

According to one post, we've been throwing money at academies, like that's a bad thing, of course, the money that we invested had to be earned, a few seasons in the Premier League helped. 

Not that they're likely to bother the Premier League any time soon, many are waking up to the reality that this season will be a lot tougher than they thought. 

Expect more cuts in the future, Evans would sell if he could, but who would pay the asking price for a Club that's hemorrhaging money. 

The fun continues.....

[lappinitup 629]

The straw clutching continues........

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/36238/town-set-for-mings-windf

[splendidrush 720]

Hilarious, they've a 9 million shortfall to make up for being cr@p last season, yet all you hear is that they need to spend spend spend. 

They still think that they're competing with the Big Clubs, something that hasn't happened for a generation. I must confess, TWTD are a part of my daily entertainment. 

[wcorkcanary 4,786]

My message to them is  ' you snooze,you lose.'

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

42 minutes ago, lappinitup said:

The straw clutching continues........

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/36238/town-set-for-mings-windf

 

Are Villa really going to pay £26.5m for Mings?

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

The level of financial illiteracy exhibited by some of the posters on there (TWTD) is stunning.

They cannot, for example, grasp the fact that their club is a loss-making business that, as such, is difficult to sell as the assets to be offered in any sales spec. are minimal and that Evans is completely stuck up the creek without a paddle and probably wishes that he had never once set foot over the Ipswich Town boundary line in the first place. A true nightmare scenario for the man. He must wince at the very mention of Ipswich Town Football Club.

And they still expect him to pour in more millions. Believe!

As for the debt? Apparently it doesn't exist because it is "internal."

Edited July 7, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

1 minute ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Are Villa really going to pay £26.5m for Mings?

They spent 17m on Matt Target, a player far worse than Mings.

[All the Germans 1,239]

1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

They spent 17m on Matt Target, a player far worse than Mings.

The world has gone mad. Don't get me wrong, he's OK (apart from a horrible human being) but nothing special. I wouldn't have him over any of our likely first choice defenders.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

22 hours ago, All the Germans said:

The world has gone mad. Don't get me wrong, he's OK (apart from a horrible human being) but nothing special. I wouldn't have him over any of our likely first choice defenders.

 

It really does make you wonder what each of our players is worth. I know a player is only worth what someone else will pay for him, but I have no idea these days how to value our players. Im glad we are not entertaining spunking this kind of money on players. Fulham showed doing this is no guarantee of success

Edited July 8, 2019 by The Great Mass Debater

[SwindonCanary 457]

3732 days since they beat us !

[Rivvo 265]

Yet apparently the six richest clubs in the Prem finish in the top 6, the six richest clubs in the champs the same, not sure where we fitted into that, even with all the millions we’ve thrown at our academy.

[Iwans Big Toe 382]

11 minutes ago, Rivvo said:

Yet apparently the six richest clubs in the Prem finish in the top 6, the six richest clubs in the champs the same, not sure where we fitted into that, even with all the millions we’ve thrown at our academy.

What about the 6 richest clubs in League 1?

[Bill 1,788]

 

On 07/07/2019 at 20:39, splendidrush said:

 when he's been baling them out for over 10 years.

err, rather an urbin myth that one - he's actually bled them dry, by trousering anything that is not screwed down

that's why their squad is worth diddley squat, why the club owns nothing bar a few old tin replica cups, why the ground is in such a sorry state as is the pitch, the Cat 1 academy was only ever a scam...........if there really was money being put in all those could have been remedied at a fraction of what he is supposedly 'pumping in'. As Lambert admitted the other day

"“We haven’t spent any money at all – none. If you spend money then I can understand people saying ‘You have to be up there’ and ‘You have to win titles’. I get all that.“Without money it’s a different project, but the objective is still the same. It’s to try and be successful. But we haven’t spent any money."

Which pretty much sums up that club. Penny pinching and failing to invest over a very long period of time. Where they find themselves both in league and financial terms reflects that cost cutting.

Their current position is merely one of the ledges that Homer hits (below) , and the idea that half way down that fall he is going turn things around is a ludicrous as is the delusion that the binner's grubby little club is going through a rough patch, and 'normal' will be restored soon.

This is 'normal' my pitchfork waving friends get used to it (the play off semi final v us kicks in at 1m 25sec)

 

[splendidrush 720]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

 

err, rather an urbin myth that one - he's actually bled them dry, by trousering anything that is not screwed down

 

 

They've been running at a loss for years, if your turnover is 16 million and wages are 18.5 you're losing money. Evans pumps in his own money to make up the shortfall but as support has dwindled he's been forced to increase his stake to keep them afloat. Sure he's taken the training ground and profits from the sale of players but that's just to reduce the amount that he has to put in. The fact that they have nothing left to sell is a result of spending by Keane and Jewell in particular, on cr@p players on expensive contracts. 

I'm not defending Evans but the idea that he's bled them dry doesn't stack up.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Roy Keane and Paul Jewell were both gone by 2012. So I really don't get these excuses. The current situation is Evans making and he must be happy with it. 

 

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, splendidrush said:

They've been running at a loss for years, if your turnover is 16 million and wages are 18.5 you're losing money. Evans pumps in his own money to make up the shortfall but as support has dwindled he's been forced to increase his stake to keep them afloat. Sure he's taken the training ground and profits from the sale of players but that's just to reduce the amount that he has to put in. The fact that they have nothing left to sell is a result of spending by Keane and Jewell in particular, on cr@p players on expensive contracts. 

I'm not defending Evans but the idea that he's bled them dry doesn't stack up.

so if he had not taken the profits from the sale of players then he would not have had to 'pump money in' ?

if he has not bled them dry then how come they owe around £90m plus and their squad is pretty much worthless ?

how come he 'charged' them for the full amount they owed Norwich Union (£25m plus) when he supposedly only paid £6m or £8m to buy the debt ?

the myth of Keane supposedly spending all the money can be seen in their accounts for that time - and how much of their current debt is accrued interest on the original debt ?

and if you are overspending on wages then why not simply adjust the wages to fit the income......he's had 10 years to get it right ?

 

[splendidrush 720]

40 minutes ago, Bill said:

so if he had not taken the profits from the sale of players then he would not have had to 'pump money in' ?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, because the profit on the players isn't enough to cover the losses, therefore he keeps putting his money in, thereby increasing the debt. 

 

44 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

if he has not bled them dry then how come they owe around £90m plus and their squad is pretty much worthless ?

 

 

 

 

Because having sold their best players to keep the Club afloat (with his contribution) they've been replaced with no money to spend. 

 

47 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

how come he 'charged' them for the full amount they owed Norwich Union (£25m plus) when he supposedly only paid £6m or £8m to buy the debt?

 

This is the good bit, truth is, they were heading for administration anyway and Sheepshanks was willing to offload to someone, anyone. 

With bankruptcy a real possibility and Sheepy telling them that it's a good deal they went for it hook, line and sinker. 

Remember them waving tenners?

He offered them terms, they accepted, he hasn't bled them dry, just kept to the terms they agreed to.

53 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

the myth of Keane supposedly spending all the money can be seen in their accounts for that time - and how much of their current debt is accrued interest on the original debt ?

 

 

Heaps, but it isn't Evans fault that 1p5wich can't identify a bad deal, he's a businessman. 

53 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

and if you are overspending on wages then why not simply adjust the wages to fit the income......he's had 10 years to get it right ?

 

Because everytime he reduces the wage Bill, the standard of players goes down, leading to lower attendances, lower turnover and rubbish football. It's a spiral that they've yet to reach the bottom of. 

[Rivvo 265]

9 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

What about the 6 richest clubs in League 1?

Apparently that’s true too, I think that’s why there’s so much hand wringing on there, they’re trying to work out if they’re going to be one of the six 😃

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

There are clearly quite a few things that have led to their gradual and seemingly inevitable decline. They have continued to go downhill due to Evans's poor "management" for sure and although  he has a financial right to try to mitigate against losses by (at first) levying interest on the debt, acquiring the training ground cheaply and holding back with some of the incoming money from transfers he surely has a 'moral' responsibility to finance the playing side of the business as it was his decision to take the club on in the first place.

The fact that his contribution to the latter, whilst fairly considerable at times, has been poorly executed and somewhat inconsistent, to the point of indifference, overall suggests that the cynical view that he took on the venture for profit rather than for any affiliation with the club it's self (apparently he is a West Ham supporter at heart) may not be far from the truth.

The fact that the town/area might be just on the wrong side of the population divide might also be a factor. Perhaps Norwich are just, just on the right side by comparison.

Even at their peak under Robson, and with terracing, they were only averaging at about the level of our gates last season.

Interestingly, but probably not significant, is that the highest ever gate at Portman Road of 38, 000 in a 1975 cup tie against Leeds falls some way short of that achieved at Carrow Road a decade earlier at 44, 000 for the tie against Leicester. Capacity may have influenced this, but they did pack 'em in in these days before elf and safety after all.

Either way I very much doubt that, even if they romp their league this season, their average attendance will come anywhere near to City's 24, 500 during our League One season.

Some may have read the following article posted on TWTD a few days ago which indicates that the origin of their decline lies in ground expansion and suggests that even Robson himself should be partly blamed:-

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/07/08/they-sold-a-team-and-built-a-stand-how-ipswich-went-from-european-champions-to-relegation-in-five-years/

That they were to repeat the mistake during the Sheepshanks/Burley era goes back partly to the population thing whereby the club had a habit of overestimating their pull during the good times, whilst not realising that when things worsened on the field of play they would be unable to maintain a sustainable support in the way that Sunderland, for example, and to a lesser extent City do.

Many factors, including being too big for their boots (due to living with their 'history' overlong?) have contributed but, as ever, it is narrow margins in football. They could find a managerial messiah (most certainly not Lambert) and a future England starlet and rise Lazarus like from their sick bed in a few years time, but for now they are being confronted with the consequences of years of gradual decline underlined by sheer bad club stewardship and with some geographical/demographic factors involved, imo.  

Next season will be very interesting. The odds of a relegated club getting promoted immediately from League One are much in their favour but should they fail then that famous gap, which has never been wider, could become virtually impossible to breach even if NCFC do not last long in the Land of Milk and Honey.

Edited July 9, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

A genuine Ipswich fan must be wondering where their future lies. As football becomes more polarised and the rich close ranks, our success is bound to put the shivers up them. And if it is true that kids in their domain are "supporting" us now then it doesn't bode well for them. Especially as kids are so concerned with success over loyalty.

At one stage I did think this might be a temporary change of power but it is looking more like a major and maybe permanent realignment in the  pecking order.

But that is football and I don't feel sorry for them. Nothing matters except NCFC.

[ricardo 8,036]

Football fortunes for the medium sized clubs have always been more or less like a roller coaster ride.

The car labelled 1p5wich, seems to have come off the rails somewhere.

[splendidrush 720]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

 

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/07/08/they-sold-a-team-and-built-a-stand-how-ipswich-went-from-european-champions-to-relegation-in-five-years/

 

This is an excellent read Broadstairs, despite my stance on expansion at Carrow Road it's clear that it's fraught with concerns that others put forward a week or so ago. 

1p5wich's problems are varied, even their own supporters can't agree who's to blame or the way forward for the Club, it remains clear that they've more pain before the good times return. 

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

"Football fortunes for the medium sized clubs have always been more or less like a roller coaster ride."

True, and although it's always been the case that finances are important in keeping the club on the higher rails it has never been more important than nowadays.

Slip off and it becomes harder to get back on.

In that scenario the population pull comes into account. Some big clubs have suffered the indignity of the third tier in recent years including Forest, Leeds, Wednesday and even Manchester City before them.That these clubs have eventually reversed their fortunes would seem inevitable due to their catchments. Perhaps the Portsmouths and Coventrys might refute this ...although there is no single factor and even Norwich City might not qualify by these standards.

That Sunderland will be revived sooner rather than later is also inevitable, but can the same be said for Ipswich Town?

I feel that it's in the balance and should they not rebound immediately then the chances of them becoming a club with the status of a Luton Town or even a Peterborough or a Gillingham will increase by the season.

 

In sum, I feel that there but for the Grace of God could be NCFC. The fact that we are not is due to many factors, but one of the most consistent of these is most certainly our larger support.

Edited July 9, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

"This is an excellent read Broadstairs, despite my stance on expansion at Carrow Road it's clear that it's fraught with concerns that others put forward a week or so ago."

This is most true and nothing is black and white.

However, and taking all things in to consideration, there is a limit to just how much we can base our own club's future planning upon the demise of those down the road.

I feel that, whatever the circumstances, any decision to embark upon ground expansion at Carrow Road will be based upon much firmer and realistic considerations than those ever taken by those at Ipswich Town.

Whereas they have been rash and somewhat unrealistic some might suggest that City have been somewhat over-cautious. Some will rightly argue that this caution has served us well. Some will consider it bad business practice to continue with such caution for much longer. 

Robson argued that, at the time Ipswich had a season ticket waiting list of 2, 000 for that brief period of great success for the club. Surely we have had longer queues for longer periods just by existing in the top league?

Subsequently, I believe, they have only sold out their ground once since Sheepshank's folly and that was for a derby fixture against us. Carrow Road sell-outs have and will be commonplace. Is this just because of a lower capacity we have to ask ourselves?

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

However, and taking all things in to consideration, there is a limit to just how much we can base our own club's future planning upon the demise of those down the down the road.

Although there are always benefits to someone other club's demise. And the capture of the minds of the kids of East Anglia could well give us a firm base that even relegation from the Prem wouldn't diminish. Even though our last visit to the Prem upset the finances of the club, we turned it around and our model and owners seem far more likely to continue our fortune than an owner who bought the club debt for half of what it was so is going to make money unless the real worse scenario happens to them.

[capricorn1 18]

4 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Some may have read the following article posted on TWTD a few days ago which indicates that the origin of their decline lies in ground expansion and suggests that even Robson himself should be partly blamed:-

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/07/08/they-sold-a-team-and-built-a-stand-how-ipswich-went-from-european-champions-to-relegation-in-five-years/

 

A cracking article, thanks for sharing it and surely a warning that increasing capacity at any cost isn't wise.

Edited July 9, 2019 by capricorn1

[ncfcstar 342]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

And if it is true that kids in their domain are "supporting" us now then it doesn't bode well for them. Especially as kids are so concerned with success over loyalty.

 

It's true.  I've just moved back to Suffolk after a few years in the Midlands.

When I was growing up I was the only Norwich fan I knew at my school for years (changed a bit in 04/05 for some reason...), but even then I couldn't remember seeing many Norwich shirts around.

I was at the ASDA in Ipswich on Saturday for 10 minutes and saw two Norwich shirts.  That ASDA is in one of what I would have classed previously as the 'hardcore' ITFC heartlands of Ipswich, I'd never have even considered seeing a Norwich shirt there 20 years ago unless it was mine.