The Positive Brexit Thread

[Barbe bleu 832]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

Most countries in the EU have established that EU law is supreme. There have been a handful of cases where some have tried to argue EU law can’t be supreme over domestic constitutional rights (it helps when you have an actual written constitution).

One reason why many didn’t have statutes expressly referring to EU law taking precedence is because their constitutions already say international treaties take precedence. 

 

Yes, almost every EU member state de jure puts national constitutional law above EU law but find a way to de facto give it the opposite effect, even Belgium holds EU law as secondary 

One way is to make EU provisions (malta) or international treaties (czechia) part of the constitution. There are other fudges throughout the Union.

Its a bit of a side effect of the UKs unwritten constitution that the courts couldn't fudge it here like it has been over there. And for many the result wasn't a good look

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

CEO of ISS, the Danish company, says virtually all Danes who worked from home during the pandemic now go to work. And moet other European countries habe done so.

In the UK, only 40% of those who worked from home have gone back to work.

Why do we always have to be different?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,596]

9 hours ago, Aggy said:

Most countries in the EU have established that EU law is supreme. There have been a handful of cases where some have tried to argue EU law can’t be supreme over domestic constitutional rights (it helps when you have an actual written constitution).

One reason why many didn’t have statutes expressly referring to EU law taking precedence is because their constitutions already say international treaties take precedence. 

 

French, Polish, German, and Hungarian courts have all challenged the supremacy of EU law on different subjects over the years, Germany as recently as the last few years.

But that was kind of a clarification on a specific point about being considered anti-EU, which I'm not; the main point was addressing Yellow Fever's interest in my position on how the EU handled the question of EU citizenship for UK citizens.

A lot of European Liberals were of beliefs echoing this point about EU citizenship, most prominently Guy Verhofstadt.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Aggy 766]

9 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

CEO of ISS, the Danish company, says virtually all Danes who worked from home during the pandemic now go to work. And moet other European countries habe done so.

In the UK, only 40% of those who worked from home have gone back to work.

Why do we always have to be different?

Struggling to find any stats which support any of that.

Statista last week said 40 per cent of UK workers had worked from home at some point in the last week (but that could be one day), not sure if that’s the confusion? That’s very different to saying 60 per cent never go into the office at all. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1207746/coronavirus-working-location-trends-britain/

And this link suggests on average in the eu 30 per cent of people regularly worked from home last year, with only 15 per cent doing so in the UK. “The proportion of remote workers in the Netherlands is four times higher than the UK” for instance…

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/02/10/want-to-work-from-home-these-european-countries-are-the-most-open-to-hybrid-or-remote-work

 

[Yellow Fever 3,838]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

French, Polish, German, and Hungarian courts have all challenged the supremacy of EU law on different subjects over the years, Germany as recently as the last few years.

But that was kind of a clarification on a specific point about being considered anti-EU, which I'm not; the main point was addressing Yellow Fever's interest in my position on how the EU handled the question of EU citizenship for UK citizens.

A lot of European Liberals were of beliefs echoing this point about EU citizenship, most prominently Guy Verhofstadt.

 

 

It amazes me how many of my colleagues in business have discovered a long lost Irish Grandma etc and are now dual nationals - for the benefit of themselves and indeed their children.

It's even more ironic how many of the leading Brexiteers and their families also seem to have found such loop holes.

Yes - I would very much like to of kept my EU citizenship (and the FOM that went with it) even for a small fee but I suspect many of the die hard Brexiteers would of argued that in effect put the EU on a par with nations - in effect issuing its own passports which is not the intention.

Perhaps the idea will return as per Verhofstadt in due course.

Certainly 'blue' French made passports were not worth the hassle.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[sonyc 5,541]

58 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

It amazes me how many of my colleagues in business have discovered a long lost Irish Grandma etc and are now dual nationals - for the benefit of themselves and indeed their children.

It's even more ironic how many of the leading Brexiteers and their families also seem to have found such loop holes.

Yes - I would very much like to of kept my EU citizenship (and the FOM that went with it) even for a small fee but I suspect many of the die hard Brexiteers would of argued that in effect put the EU on a par with nations - in effect issuing its own passports which is not the intention.

Perhaps the idea will return as per Verhofstadt in due course.

Certainly 'blue' French made passports were not worth the hassle.

 

I would pay to become an EU 'associate' citizen. I recall Verhofstadt proposing that years ago and was so hopeful it might come to fruition. I would even pay an annual fee! Wouldn't think twice.

This government wouldn't allow it! I would imagine millions would take up the option. 

My wife has dual nationality already (and sons can apply ahead of course) but for me it would mean leaving and living in an EU country for a number of years (it differs) and that is a massive decision. Not one I've given up on though - but that would be it for my active Norwich City days (attendance). Also having children in the UK means that is a more important factor than just being about me. Associate membership would mean a happier halfway house. Might feel less embarrassed too about being British (by implication being seen as a Brexit supporter). 

The EU itself is anything but perfect and I've been a critic many times (in my previous work it was so frustrating at times) but EU membership is about a wider / much deeper feeling of being part of a greater whole. Maybe I'm more unusual in that respect? It's as much an emotional connection, if that doesn't sound strange? That was so much more heightened when I used to work (very occasionally) with Germans, Swedes, Danish, French etc etc. That's why when the Brexit vote was taking place my arguments were always weak, being much more personal. 

It's why also I always hope we are part of a union in the UK (Scotland, Wales ...) though I just understand why the Welsh and Scots would wish to be away from Westminster. Westminster isn't everything and is not 'the' UK...just like the EU commission isn't 'Europe'. To want to be so isolationist is anathema and I don't understand it I will readily admit. That makes me a bit dim because I just don't understand sovereignty. And there are plenty reading this post who will really dislike me for this view . But there it is. Can only be honest. If we had some kind of individual membership then people could pick and choose couldn't they? It's some kind of compromise. But it doesn't solve the issue for businesses and trading.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,838]

18 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I would pay to become an EU 'associate' citizen. I recall Verhofstadt proposing that years ago and was so hopeful it might come to fruition. I would even pay an annual fee! Wouldn't think twice.

This government wouldn't allow it! I would imagine millions would take up the option. 

My wife has dual nationality already (and sons can apply ahead of course) but for me it would mean leaving and living in an EU country for a number of years (it differs) and that is a massive decision. Not one I've given up on though - but that would be it for my active Norwich City days (attendance). Also having children in the UK means that is a more important factor than just being about me. Associate membership would mean a happier halfway house. Might feel less embarrassed too about being British (by implication being seen as a Brexit supporter). 

The EU itself is anything but perfect and I've been a critic many times (in my previous work it was so frustrating at times) but EU membership is about a wider / much deeper feeling of being part of a greater whole. Maybe I'm more unusual in that respect? It's as much an emotional connection, if that doesn't sound strange? That was so much more heightened when I used to work (very occasionally) with Germans, Swedes, Danish, French etc etc. That's why when the Brexit vote was taking place my arguments were always weak, being much more personal. 

It's why also I always hope we are part of a union in the UK (Scotland, Wales ...) though I just understand why the Welsh and Scots would wish to be away from Westminster. Westminster isn't everything and is not 'the' UK...just like the EU commission isn't 'Europe'. To want to be so isolationist is anathema and I don't understand it I will readily admit. That makes me a bit dim because I just don't understand sovereignty. And there are plenty reading this post who will really dislike me for this view . But there it is. Can only be honest. If we had some kind of individual membership then people could pick and choose couldn't they? It's some kind of compromise. But it doesn't solve the issue for businesses and trading.

 

Good SC. I can agree with all of that.

I have many friends in many countries and all those that are sensible I think are quite happy with their quirks and differences - I can joke with Germans and French, Swedes and Norwegians about local rivalries - but we're all fundamentally on the same side (European standards of tolerance) and our tribal differences and bragging rights are now settled on the football field.

Few of us are Europhiles - we can all see the problems and challenges of the EU but simply its good vastly outweighs its problems. All things in life are as ever a compromise.

Ought to add I use to have Danish secretary - brilliant with so many languages! 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[sonyc 5,541]

54 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Ought to add I use to have Danish secretary - brilliant with so many languages! 

I still recall a lunchtime conversation with an older eccentric Dutchman (or was he really?) and a young Danish woman. He argued brilliantly about the key to solving any disagreement - in politics or in families. How to find compromises in life, how to be happy. An unusual conversation to have 'out of the blue' and at a conference. The Danish woman knew (it seemed) all about the UK labour market and social security system. She explained the key differences and subtleties in implementation between the two countries. She explained all this in English and without being dismissive but just curious. It's not everyday one has conversations like that. All with much gentle humour and respect. You felt any issue might have been solved! Maybe we were just all idealists I wondered after. And that idealism feels like something that we've lost sight of today. What's happened!! It was there post WW2 and in the 50s/60s. Globalism? Social media? Capitalist greed and control of the media? All leading to  greater fear of another? More cynicism? Not for my European friends. They were open, as were many others I met in my brief 3 year connection through work. They were keen listeners.

I found the same issues of communication as a therapist. Folk seem not to listen to one another but want to speak first. Minds very fixed and stridently so - 'okay' until life changed and a fixed world view became an existential matter.

That's the shame in all that we saw in the Brexit pre vote. The taking of a side. Never forget going to vote (bright sunny morning) and seeing a completely unhinged woman with a homemade poster on her back in the street (she'd been drinking) with the words "F off Europe" and a union jack tee shirt. What made her like that? In a suburban village setting! How was she so politicised? Why the hatred? Who was she taking back control from! Two friends turned into haters too.

Farage has some responsibility, likewise later Johnson and those ERG loons. You can't tell me that who is in power doesn't have a moral leadership responsibility. Clearly, they lead a national consciousness and the media influences a narrative.  And bloody hell, don't we just need better folk doing that job.

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by sonyc

[littleyellowbirdie 2,596]

34 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Good SC. I can agree with all of that.

I have many friends in many countries and all those that are sensible I think are quite happy with their quirks and differences - I can joke with Germans and French, Swedes and Norwegians about local rivalries - but we're all fundamentally on the same side (European standards of tolerance) and our tribal differences and bragging rights are now settled on the football field.

Few of us are Europhiles - we can all see the problems and challenges of the EU but simply its good vastly outweighs its problems. All things in life are as ever a compromise.

Ought to add I use to have Danish secretary - brilliant with so many languages! 

Yes, there's a lot of good to the EU. A large part of the reason it works is because there's a fair bit of shared cultural values throughout Europe which means that there's fair scope to adopt shared approaches on human rights and so forth without upsetting too many people.

Could Pakistan be integrated into the EU? No it can't, and that's a limit to what it can do in terms of unifying people. Fundamentally, the EU's social elements are founded on Christian humanist values, which have evolved into agnostic/atheist human values that just aren't shared in many other cultures. We saw the hostility there was to Turkey potentially being a member, which is shared by a number of EU countries; it does come down to the differences in values, which has grown with Erdogan dismantling most of the changes that had made Turkey more secular.

The starting point for the EU was trade, which extended into labour rights, cross-border sale of services and so on. This is why I think CPTPP is so interesting, potentially valuable, and worth persevering with as a complement to what the EU has done in Europe.

I can't stress enough how much I do think it's important for the UK and the EU to rebuild the relationship. It's one silver lining to the very dark cloud of the Ukraine war that the threat there has gone a long way to get us communicating constructively again.

I did very much think we should never have left the EU in the first place; the juice wasn't worth the squeeze in my book and most of the downsides have shown it was a mistake, at least in the short to mid-term, if any good will ever come from it. I concede that it's possible.

That said, we are out of the EU and we're out on terms that have left us with a not disastrous trade relationship with the EU and with the freedom to pursue other possibilities, such as CPTPP. There's a shortage of tomatoes at the moment, but that's not simply down to us no longer being in the EU. We were rationed for sunflower oil here for some months after the start of the Ukraine war. These are inconveniences, not disasters that don't in themselves justify acting in haste to throw ourselves on the mercy of the EU; rest assured if the UK was to pursue readmission to the EU any time soon, I'm positive the UK will pay a massive political price for it, having already endured most of the major damage of leaving the EU which won't be repaired simply by rejoining. Doing so now would arguably be worse than Suez in terms of presenting the UK to the world as a truly and irrevocably enfeebled and broken nation.

Japan looks to me to be a very strong partner keen for us to support it building a platform for its influence in South East Asia. It also has strong cutural links to Germany, which is why I think pursuing CPTPP can actually help us get get closer to the EU for both trade and maybe freedom of movement without going to the EU on our hands and knees as a weakened and arguably failed nation.

I went to the bar yesterday evening and ran into the mayor, who shook my hand and mentioned he hadn't forgotten about getting us on the mains sewage. I then listened in on the chat about the Ukraine war and other subjects as best I could, accepted just as much as I was before we left the EU. I've been to Germany as well post-Brexit and had a great time being shown around by my nephew's German girlfriend (who speaks English like she grew up in a well-to-do area of West Sussex and apparently one of the reasons she took an interest in my nephew, who grew up in Sevenoaks, in the first place!). I also went out to restaurants there with my girlfriend and managed to chat to some locals in my poor German. Again, no hostility anywhere on account of Brexit.

 

[Captain Holt 522]

I'd love to know how this stupid old tory bestard is getting on after eating three years' worth of cockles and mussels that have been splashing about in our raw shlt-infested waters.

[canarydan23 4,060]

9 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I went to the bar yesterday evening and ran into the mayor, who shook my hand and mentioned he hadn't forgotten about getting us on the mains sewage. I then listened in on the chat about the Ukraine war and other subjects as best I could, accepted just as much as I was before we left the EU. I've been to Germany as well post-Brexit and had a great time being shown around by my nephew's German girlfriend (who speaks English like she grew up in a well-to-do area of West Sussex and apparently one of the reasons she took an interest in my nephew, who grew up in Sevenoaks, in the first place!). I also went out to restaurants there with my girlfriend and managed to chat to some locals in my poor German. Again, no hostility anywhere on account of Brexit.

Most people who go to the continent probably share this experience. That's because most people who go to the continent didn't vote for Brexit. They're sat at within this sceptred isle wondering where they can get tomatoes.

I've only been to Greece and France since Brexit and my experience is similar to yours. I spoke to a waitress in a restaurant on a Greek island who said she was amazed Brexit ever won the vote because of all the people she's spoken to not a single one said they voted for it. Admittedly, I'm sure some of those people actually did vote for it but were too ashamed to admit it, much like how a lot of Tory voters won't disclose their true political allegiance because deep down they know it's shameful.

But outside of the big tourist areas, which I assume includes where you are, the vast majority of Brits the natives encounter knew and know that Brexit was idiotic.

[ron obvious 1,514]

37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I still recall a lunchtime conversation with an older eccentric Dutchman (or was he really?) and a young Danish woman. He argued brilliantly about the key to solving any disagreement - in politics or in families. How to find compromises in life, how to be happy. An unusual conversation to have 'out of the blue' and at a conference. The Danish woman knew (it seemed) all about the UK labour market and social security system. She explained the key differences and subtleties in implementation between the two countries. She explained all this in English and without being dismissive but just curious. It's not everyday one has conversations like that. All with much gentle humour and respect. You felt any issue might have been solved! Maybe we were just all idealists I wondered after. And that idealism feels like something that we've lost sight of today. What's happened!! It was there post WW2 and in the 50s/60s. Globalism? Social media? Capitalist greed and control of the media? All leading to  greater fear of another? More cynicism? Not for my European friends. They were open, as were many others I met in my brief 3 year connection through work. They were keen listeners.

I found the same issues of communication as a therapist. Folk seem not to listen to one another but want to speak first. Minds very fixed and stridently so - 'okay' until life changed and a fixed world view became an existential matter.

That's the shame in all that we saw in the Brexit pre vote. The taking of a side. Never forget going to vote (bright sunny morning) and seeing a completely unhinged woman with a homemade poster on her back in the street (she'd been drinking) with the words "F off Europe" and a union jack tee shirt. What made her like that? In a suburban village setting! How was she so politicised? Why the hatred? Who was she taking back control from! Two friends turned into haters too.

Farage has some responsibility, likewise later Johnson and those ERG loons. You can't tell me that who is in power doesn't have a moral leadership responsibility. Clearly, they lead a national consciousness and the media influences a narrative.  And bloody hell, don't we just need better folk doing that job.

 

 

 

I don't know where to begin with this. I could write a book (The Book Of Life maybe).

I see why you think the way you do. I'm guessing you've only largely come into contact with educated, tolerant, intelligent people - of all nationalities.

I've worked with people of at least 20 different nationalities/ethnicities/religions. I have found any of these to be poor predictors of personality. The best boss I ever had was Iranian, the most vile person was Turkish (though another Turk was really sweet) & an Irishman I thought I was really friendly with turned out to have a deep loathing of anyone British. Again not typical.

I've worked in situations from the shop floor to design & development, so I've come across people from a lot of different social & economic backgrounds; the same applies as above.

All in all my experiences of about 40 years working life have left me with a deep distrust of 'experts'  & a conviction that there is no such person as an average one & that many different characteristics, both good & bad, can reside in the same physical being. In short, we are all individuals. And endlessly fascinating.

My conclusion is that it's a damn hard job to keep society together, a nation of 60 million or so souls to co-exist nigh on impossible, & some overarching grand nation of 10 times that (or whatever) to be a fantasy. Whatever the original driving force was for the EU it has degenerated into a huge self-serving bureaucracy with the most powerful nations calling the shots. It runs on hypocrisy. corruption & flouting of its own rules by any member state that can get away with it. 

We've quite enough of our own home-grown examples of the above in our own governmental machine to add another (unelected) layer on top. 

Perhaps the crux of the matter for me centres around the whole concept of idealism. It is the contrast between French idealism & English pragmatism that divides us from Europe. This topic in itself is worthy of at least one decent size book, & I'm not going to write it here (even if I were capable).

Ultimately the only important questions are philosophical ones.

The physical world is not & never can be an ideal place, nor the dwellers in it be ideal. This does not mean it cannot be improved, but this is a difficult & necessarily tentative process with the law of unintended consequences being pretty well infallible.

[BigFish 1,988]

53 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Most people who go to the continent probably share this experience. That's because most people who go to the continent didn't vote for Brexit. They're sat at within this sceptred isle wondering where they can get tomatoes.

I've only been to Greece and France since Brexit and my experience is similar to yours. I spoke to a waitress in a restaurant on a Greek island who said she was amazed Brexit ever won the vote because of all the people she's spoken to not a single one said they voted for it. Admittedly, I'm sure some of those people actually did vote for it but were too ashamed to admit it, much like how a lot of Tory voters won't disclose their true political allegiance because deep down they know it's shameful.

But outside of the big tourist areas, which I assume includes where you are, the vast majority of Brits the natives encounter knew and know that Brexit was idiotic.

I was recently in Schipol, getting a transfer from Norwich to Paris. At the immigration gates a nice Dutch security guy (nice people the Dutch) noticed my lovely burgandy passport and ushered me towards an empty self service passport gate. As an aside he asked where I was from, the UK I said. So he smiled apologetically and ushered me instead into a long queue to have my passport manually stamped. ****ing Brexit, I said. He laughed.

Edited February 24, 2023 by BigFish

[sonyc 5,541]

31 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I don't know where to begin with this. I could write a book (The Book Of Life maybe).

I see why you think the way you do. I'm guessing you've only largely come into contact with educated, tolerant, intelligent people - of all nationalities.

I've worked with people of at least 20 different nationalities/ethnicities/religions. I have found any of these to be poor predictors of personality. The best boss I ever had was Iranian, the most vile person was Turkish (though another Turk was really sweet) & an Irishman I thought I was really friendly with turned out to have a deep loathing of anyone British. Again not typical.

I've worked in situations from the shop floor to design & development, so I've come across people from a lot of different social & economic backgrounds; the same applies as above.

All in all my experiences of about 40 years working life have left me with a deep distrust of 'experts'  & a conviction that there is no such person as an average one & that many different characteristics, both good & bad, can reside in the same physical being. In short, we are all individuals. And endlessly fascinating.

My conclusion is that it's a damn hard job to keep society together, a nation of 60 million or so souls to co-exist nigh on impossible, & some overarching grand nation of 10 times that (or whatever) to be a fantasy. Whatever the original driving force was for the EU it has degenerated into a huge self-serving bureaucracy with the most powerful nations calling the shots. It runs on hypocrisy. corruption & flouting of its own rules by any member state that can get away with it. 

We've quite enough of our own home-grown examples of the above in our own governmental machine to add another (unelected) layer on top. 

Perhaps the crux of the matter for me centres around the whole concept of idealism. It is the contrast between French idealism & English pragmatism that divides us from Europe. This topic in itself is worthy of at least one decent size book, & I'm not going to write it here (even if I were capable).

Ultimately the only important questions are philosophical ones.

The physical world is not & never can be an ideal place, nor the dwellers in it be ideal. This does not mean it cannot be improved, but this is a difficult & necessarily tentative process with the law of unintended consequences being pretty well infallible.

Thanks for a considered response RO. One can always rely on you to make important and thoughtful posts. Yes, I agree with much if not all that you've said. I've also spent most of my life with folk less advantaged than me (I'm not a toff either by the way...just don't know how else to say it...because I had a decent education and am quite independent minded anyway). I think those European conversations were with like minded people yes. And consensus is difficult in society. Always will be.

Agree too about real deep intelligence being found in anyone. I often used to think that as much of the caretaker or cleaner who I worked alongside as any big boss. I never felt superior or anything like that, I was just an interested person.

I'm torn as a person and there is no answer to two contrasting thoughts - I don't believe anyway. On the one hand I think we are all really alone, life is just about a decaying of sorts (until our death), that nothing really has any inherent meaning, existence indeed is a weird form of meaningless that we try and manage. I think we are all irrelevant (mostly) and that after a few years after our death no-one will even know we existed. Life is unfair, we are not special etc. I think about these things a lot - Sartre and his Nausea book are massive influences (likewise the Buddhist concepts too and Krisnamurti .... plus a few others I've read extensively).

Against all that I still want to believe in finding a meaning. And I do, in art (mainly) and especially in music and literature. These things as well as the sheer cycle of nature make me happy. To be able to share that with others is even more special. And that's why I believe in the world of society and human connection. 

But how the hell do I square these two concepts - that I believe in a nothingness and in a strong  meaning in life! I'm conflicted, and it's a huge contradiction. I cannot take either 'pole' completely. I suppose it might be called a kind of existential crisis. Mrs S thinks I think too much. She is damned right. But surely I cannot be alone in thinking the way I do. I'm content as a person, (& would be the most relaxed and easy going person you could ever meet by the way) yet I struggle  a lot of the time and most days with this duality of how to see or experience the world. 

Brexit is just one of those things that makes me feel less that society (on the whole) is less connected - certainly than I want it to be and therefore it is sad too. I suppose I ought to shut up about it and just listen to music. One day all that will be left of me is my own music (on tapes), and the stories I've written (digital) and my paintings. Maybe that's the way I've tried to immortalise myself - like the way some people do by constantly taking selfies and posting them online..like Tik Tok folk...who cannot deal with their own meaningless and so they post constantly and become influencers😅

I'm taking this thread far too far from the main topic. We need a philosophy thread and as you've said (like Jung did) many things and questions are ultimately philosophical ones and I've just tried to contribute to your point.

Edited February 24, 2023 by sonyc

[canarydan23 4,060]

37 minutes ago, BigFish said:

I was recently in Schipol, getting a transfer from Norwich to Paris. At the immigration gates a nice Dutch security guy (nice people the Dutch) noticed my lovely burgandy passport and ushered me towards an empty self service passport gate. As an aside he asked where I was from, the UK I said. So he smiled apologetically and ushered me instead into a long queue to have my passport manually stamped. ****ing Brexit, I said. He laughed.

I'm eligible for an Irish passport through my Mum, I've been meaning to sort it out for ages. It won't really benefit me hugely as when I travel it'll be with my family who aren't eligible, so they'll still have to wait. But the thought of sitting with a cup of tea the other side of security whilst my missus deals with the kids does sound worth the effort getting all the appropriate documents together and the £300 or so it would cost.

[ron obvious 1,514]

Can I just respectfully say that's a ****ing awesome post sonyc. And YES!! we really, really need a philosophy thread. I've a superficial knowledge of a lot of philosophers (always dangerous) but know little of Eastern philosophy & it would be good to be pointed in the right direction. All I would say is that I know enough to know I don't know very much.

You're outlook seems to be so much like mine. Yet we've come to dissimilar conclusions (certainly about Brexit, but I'm sure we'd disagree on other subjects). But that's part & parcel of being human, & our very disagreements can be a strength if we let them.

I also have a dualistic view of the world. I'm a strict determinist (no Free Will etc. etc.). Well as the most likely explanation anyway. But I remain convinced there's something else ...

Anyway don't shut up. I doubt you could any more than I can, & you damn well shouldn't anyway. I'm definitely going to start a philosophy thread 😁

[dylanisabaddog 4,990]

41 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Can I just respectfully say that's a ****ing awesome post sonyc. And YES!! we really, really need a philosophy thread. I've a superficial knowledge of a lot of philosophers (always dangerous) but know little of Eastern philosophy & it would be good to be pointed in the right direction. All I would say is that I know enough to know I don't know very much.

You're outlook seems to be so much like mine. Yet we've come to dissimilar conclusions (certainly about Brexit, but I'm sure we'd disagree on other subjects). But that's part & parcel of being human, & our very disagreements can be a strength if we let them.

I also have a dualistic view of the world. I'm a strict determinist (no Free Will etc. etc.). Well as the most likely explanation anyway. But I remain convinced there's something else ...

Anyway don't shut up. I doubt you could any more than I can, & you damn well shouldn't anyway. I'm definitely going to start a philosophy thread 😁

All you need to know about philosophy is contained in one sentence from Albert Camus.

"Everything I have learned in life I have learnt from playing football". 

 

[Herman 9,828]

Love to the family....

 

[dj11 378]

18 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm eligible for an Irish passport through my Mum, I've been meaning to sort it out for ages. It won't really benefit me hugely as when I travel it'll be with my family who aren't eligible, so they'll still have to wait. But the thought of sitting with a cup of tea the other side of security whilst my missus deals with the kids does sound worth the effort getting all the appropriate documents together and the £300 or so it would cost.

I just submitted my application, and it’s a 2 year wait. Mine is not straight forward as I am using my grandfather, but due to him being born out of wedlock in a Dublin workhouse, there is no birth certificate. I employed an Irish company to do the research and obtain all relevant documentation and it cost around &1000 all in. My other half is German and as we spend a lot of time in mainland Europe, I thought it was worth the effort. If I do get the Irish passport, my daughter cannot. Because your mother was Irish, you children are entitled. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by dj11

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 hours ago, dj11 said:

I just submitted my application, and it’s a 2 year wait. Mine is not straight forward as I am using my grandfather, but due to him being born out of wedlock in a Dublin workhouse, there is no birth certificate. I employed an Irish company to do the research and obtain all relevant documentation and it cost around &1000 all in. My other half is German and as we spend a lot of time in mainland Europe, I thought it was worth the effort. If I do get the Irish passport, my daughter cannot. Because your mother was Irish, you children are entitled. 

Actually I'm in a similar position to you, my Mum was born in England to Irish parents, so similarly my children cannot get one either. I have to first register my late Mum in the Foreign Births Register I believe.

One of my cousins has successfully obtained his (took him closer to three years), so all the necessary documentation is about somewhere, there just might be an extra hoop I have to jump through on account of my Mum no longer being with us. So I can probably get away without the Irish company to do the research so will just have to pay the normal fees. I'll get round to it one day, even if it just means I don't have to get my French-made blue passport out.

Edited February 25, 2023 by canarydan23

[littleyellowbirdie 2,596]

22 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Can I just respectfully say that's a ****ing awesome post sonyc. And YES!! we really, really need a philosophy thread. I've a superficial knowledge of a lot of philosophers (always dangerous) but know little of Eastern philosophy & it would be good to be pointed in the right direction. All I would say is that I know enough to know I don't know very much.

You're outlook seems to be so much like mine. Yet we've come to dissimilar conclusions (certainly about Brexit, but I'm sure we'd disagree on other subjects). But that's part & parcel of being human, & our very disagreements can be a strength if we let them.

I also have a dualistic view of the world. I'm a strict determinist (no Free Will etc. etc.). Well as the most likely explanation anyway. But I remain convinced there's something else ...

Anyway don't shut up. I doubt you could any more than I can, & you damn well shouldn't anyway. I'm definitely going to start a philosophy thread 😁

Even without Irish ancestors, you can just move to the Republic of Ireland and get a job there, then just naturalise after a certain amount of time, seeing as there are no obstacles to Brits working in the Republic of Ireland.

It's an easy hop back to the UK and they even speak English there.

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/how-to-become-a-citizen/become-an-irish-citizen-by-naturalisation/

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-ireland

Edited February 25, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[dj11 378]

26 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Actually I'm in a similar position to you, my Mum was born in England to Irish parents, so similarly my children cannot get one either. I have to first register my late Mum in the Foreign Births Register I believe.

One of my cousins has successfully obtained his (took him closer to three years), so all the necessary documentation is about somewhere, there just might be an extra hoop I have to jump through on account of my Mum no longer being with us. So I can probably get away without the Irish company to do the research so will just have to pay the normal fees. I'll get round to it one day, even if it just means I don't have to get my French-made blue passport out.

You don’t need to register your mum, it’s just yourself. I have a check list and copies of everything needed. If you need any advice, just give me a shout. 

[Icecream Snow 762]

 

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

38 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

 

Brexit has sweet fa to with tomato/turnip shortages...

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/02/24/tomato-shortage-in-ireland-to-last-until-summer-growers-warn/

Who is any sensible person going to believe? Actual tomato growers or some random, rabid remainiac on Twitter?

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

Unseasonably cold weather in southern Spain and northern Morocco has also caused problems with the supply not only of tomatoes but also peppers and cucumbers across Europe...

https://www.irishtimes.com/food/2023/02/21/supply-of-vegetables-to-ireland-disrupted-by-poor-weather-and-energy-costs/

[Herman 9,828]

 

[Herman 9,828]

This explains it rather well Hooky.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/25/you-can-blame-the-weather-and-brexit-but-theres-more-to-the-uks-food-supply-crisis

[littleyellowbirdie 2,596]

Have to say, on the basis of this game, the South American tilt of our squad is starting to look like a positive of Brexit. 😁

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

This explains it rather well Hooky.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/25/you-can-blame-the-weather-and-brexit-but-theres-more-to-the-uks-food-supply-crisis

There's some tough choices ineed --  Sovereignty, control of our foreign policy, borders, taxes and the ability to elect our government or the freedom to buy a tomato in winter?

Guess which one the grown ups choose, Herman?

Plenty of tomatoes in Aldi and Lidl btw.

[Herman 9,828]

10 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

There's some tough choices ineed --  Sovereignty, control of our foreign policy, borders, taxes and the ability to elect our government or the freedom to buy a tomato in winter?

Guess which one the grown ups choose, Herman?

Plenty of tomatoes in Aldi and Lidl btw.

Ooohh Hooky. We always had them. And access to food. Now we have them but no food.

Not really a good choice from the "grown ups", was it?