Russell Martin again

[Jim Smith 2,324]

He may well be a good club man as stated in one of the above posts but he is certainly not a "City legend."

Lambert got the best out of him and had him playing above himself at right back where he did well for us even, surprisingly, for a season or two in the top flight.

He has never, ever been a centre half and ever since he was switched there he has generally been a liability.

Its interesting that about about 3 months Rangers fans are saying the same about him (in far more venemous terms as he doesn''t have the "credit" with them as with us) as many Norwich fans have been saying for about 3 years.

[Hairy Canary 705]

Martin''s career is in decline as he gets older so it''s hardly fair to compare how he is playing now with his abilities when being picked by previous managers several years ago.

[Jim Smith 2,324]

As to the question of why he continually got picked as a CB if he was so bad then I have to agree with others, it was a bit of a mystery. I think several managers fancied the notion of having him as a more mobile, ball playing centre half which became a bit of a fashion a few years ago.

Personally I also think at club level there was a element of most of those managers needing to win over the dressing room quickly at the time they came in and Martin thus benefitted from his position as senior pro and dressing room link man, This seemed to give him a bit more influence with/favour from managers than might otherwise be the case. Certainly there is a contrast with Bennett who was often dropped for Martin having done little or nothing wrong - I think probably the contrast in their attitudes played a part.

In any event it was very, very obvious to many watching that he struggled at CB with his positioning, marking and getting caught underneath crosses.

[hogesar 9,704]

Since he seems to (not seen enough to know for sure) be taking a massive downwards trajectory, and he is a big advocate of a Vegan diet, partly for prolonging his career, is it safe to say that all this Vegan cr*p is exactly just that?

It''s certainly enough for me to call it hipster BS.

[king canary 7,617]

There always seemed to be an insinuation that he wanted to play central defence too- that he''d decided that was his position rather than being moved there.

[lake district canary 4,539]

Nice to be misrepresented again, I had forgotten what it was like since morty left. It is not the fans'' fault Martin may or may not be struggling for form, it is merely that he has had to develop a seige mentality in his football career largely because of the scale of the over the top criticism. That does not help a player be at their best.

Rangers was not a good move for him, but at least he has been away from Norwich and enabled the club to move on from the ridiculous level of scapegoating that followed him around.

[GenerationA47 756]

King Canary Was thinking the same. Not sure if it was his (sensible...in theory) strategy to prolong his usefulness, as he realised his speed would gradually not be up to RB needs. Either way I feel Jim Smith''s hit the nail on the head with his set of posts - there were reasons to play him, just perhaps not the best ones. He could serve a role & provide skills that others didn''t - see Parma''s detailed posts on the subject from the time, including why his attributes would not normally be visible.However, just as he (and any others) never deserved the scapegoat role, so it would be unfair to ignore his limitations and their contribution to goals and points against. Really liked the guy though and wish him all the best.

[GenerationA47 756]

Unfair booing during the game surely undermines individual confidence. Social media forum posts and pub conversations surely do not.

[Mike 2]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Nice to be misrepresented again, I had forgotten what it was like since morty left. It is not the fans'' fault Martin may or may not be struggling for form, it is merely that he has had to develop a seige mentality in his football career largely because of the scale of the over the top criticism. That does not help a player be at their best.

Rangers was not a good move for him, but at least he has been away from Norwich and enabled the club to move on from the ridiculous level of scapegoating that followed him around.[/quote]

I would have thought the best way to stop him becoming a scapegoat, is to play him in his best position (full back... never a centre back) and to have dropped him when he became a liability (about three years ago). Could never understand why Bennett never got the run Martin did... & as Wolves has shown he clearly is the better defender.

[Mr Apples 1,322]

C''mon Hoggy, surely you like to tuck into the odd plate of glazed tempah, bok choi and soba noodles followed by a wheatgrass juice?Apples

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,784]

Remember bemoaning last season and 2 seasons ago the club not being able to find an improvement at centre half than Russell martin anywhere on European football.....but because I couldn''t come up with a list of names (as if I''m a football scout) that there couldn''t possibly have been any.

.....turns out even someone from the German 4th division was better

[Guest]

All this does beg the question, why did Webber and Farke give Martin a two year contract extension last July?

[BroadstairsR 2,183]

"Four strong backs in the middle poor old Russ in the North,

Oh these things that won''t change much come what may,

We don''t wish he''d change his mind about leaving us behind,

But WE''VE BEEN THROUGH THIS A HUNDRED TIMES BEFORE."

Hint!

Along with apologies to Neil Young.

[hogesar 9,704]

[quote user="Mr Apples"]C''mon Hoggy, surely you like to tuck into the odd plate of glazed tempah, bok choi and soba noodles followed by a wheatgrass juice?Apples[/quote]

Being vegan is a huge missed steak.

[nutty nigel 7,542]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]As to the question of why he continually got picked as a CB if he was so bad then I have to agree with others, it was a bit of a mystery. I think several managers fancied the notion of having him as a more mobile, ball playing centre half which became a bit of a fashion a few years ago.

Personally I also think at club level there was a element of most of those managers needing to win over the dressing room quickly at the time they came in and Martin thus benefitted from his position as senior pro and dressing room link man, This seemed to give him a bit more influence with/favour from managers than might otherwise be the case. Certainly there is a contrast with Bennett who was often dropped for Martin having done little or nothing wrong - I think probably the contrast in their attitudes played a part.

In any event it was very, very obvious to many watching that he struggled at CB with his positioning, marking and getting caught underneath crosses.[/quote]

So you''ve accounted for a couple of managers who apparently needed to win over the dressing room so picked a player they would otherwise not have selected. That doesn''t explain Paul Lambert playing Russ at CB in the PL, Gordon Strachan playing him at CB for Scotland or his peers picking him at CB in 2015 team of the season.

But ever since he first came to the club Russ has always been Marmite on here. Some rate him others hate him. I remember you preferring Spillane and slagging Russ off whatever he did. It''s all opinions, I get that, but sometimes you have to at least take on board the professional view.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

When Russ played as CB it always looked like he always gave his CB partner Nightmares

i have said for the last few seasons RM at CB play the ball over the top in between the RB and RCB and it caused problems

Now Nigel you are correct he has been selected by many managers there and they are professional Managers

but most fans could see he was no CB and Rangers fans are now saying it we never looked strong at the back with RM at CB including my cousin who is a ST holder at ibrox telling me no way should they sign him as he really such a poor CB which is sad as great guy

[JF 694]

hogesar wrote the following post at 14/05/2018 10:58 AM:

Since he seems to (not seen enough to know for sure) be taking a massive downwards trajectory, and he is a big advocate of a Vegan diet, partly for prolonging his career, is it safe to say that all this Vegan cr*p is exactly just that?

It''s certainly enough for me to call it hipster BS.

The Vegan diet is nothing to do with prolonging his career. It’s because he has severe case of chromes disease

[kick it off 1,952]

Nutty - Lambert didn''t play Russ at CB in the prem through choice. He played there a couple of times when we had injuries but Russ didn''t move to CB permanently until Hughton

[king canary 7,617]

@nutty

The Lambert stuff is pretty far in the past- he was generally a right back under Lambert and was a much better player then. As mentioned previously he had the pace to cover for his positional faults.

Also the narrative people have always had it in for him just doesn''t ring true. I remember some grumbles when he first started but I remember far more ''Norfolk Cafu'' chants.

[Making Plans 936]

NN, Strachan was forced to pick RM for Scotland because there was absolutely nobody else. (Hanley excluded) who was anywhere near Pl level.

He won caps purely because (a) he was Scottish, (b) because he was a CB and (c) because he was alive and breathing.

I have a friend who lives in Glasgow (Motherwell supporter) who is a fully paid up member of the Tartan Army and goes everywhere that Scotland go. He has consistantly told me that Martin is the worst CB that Scotland have ever had. In fact he has not been too complimentary about any of our Scottish players that have turned out for his Country although he did say that Naismith was a decent player before he joined us.

[hogesar 9,704]

Strachan was far from forced to play RM as CB. That''s simply making things up. They had CBs also in the championship who he could have picked ahead of him.

[nutty nigel 7,542]

[quote user="kick it off"]Nutty - Lambert didn''t play Russ at CB in the prem through choice. He played there a couple of times when we had injuries but Russ didn''t move to CB permanently until Hughton[/quote]

He played him there out of choice injuries or not KIO. However I don''t ever remember Hughton playing Russ at CB. Ergo of all the managers since 2009 it''s Hughton who knows his onions.....

[;)]

[nutty nigel 7,542]

[quote user="Making Plans"]NN, Strachan was forced to pick RM for Scotland because there was absolutely nobody else. (Hanley excluded) who was anywhere near Pl level.

He won caps purely because (a) he was Scottish, (b) because he was a CB and (c) because he was alive and breathing.

I have a friend who lives in Glasgow (Motherwell supporter) who is a fully paid up member of the Tartan Army and goes everywhere that Scotland go. He has consistantly told me that Martin is the worst CB that Scotland have ever had. In fact he has not been too complimentary about any of our Scottish players that have turned out for his Country although he did say that Naismith was a decent player before he joined us.[/quote]

Tell your tartan army buddy that it''s a sad state of affairs that they couldn''t muster a single Scottish centre back better than an Englishman who was worse than any who''d played there before. Please take a photo of his "boat" as he lets that sink in.....

Now, having established successive Norwich managers failed to pick the best players at CB for a variety of dubious reasons, and that Scotland were soooo rubbish that an Englishman who is never in a million years a CB was the best available, does anyone want to explain away the 2015 Championship team of the year?

[Making Plans 936]

It''s not just him that thinks that, it''s the majority of the T A. And they should know what a poor CB is because they spend most weekends watching them.

Perhaps they''re gonna need a bigger boat?

[Mello Yello 2,297]

We should welcome our club legend and rock solid defensive stalwart Russell back here with grateful open arms. Put him straight back in the starting 11 for the pre-season friendlies and including our forthcoming Championship assault. Then for sure, we''ll be 100% guaranteed automatic promotion......Oh Yeah!.....

[king canary 7,617]

@Making plans

Ah but you forget they all don''t know what they are talking about because Paul Lambert played him in 2010 and he was in a Championship team of the year in 2015 or something...

[nutty nigel 7,542]

I don''t remember Paul Lambert playing him there in 2010.

I don''t think some of you remember anything from one week to the next....

Loving that the best cd option for Scotland was an Englishman who''s never a CD in a million years. And they ALL this tartan army think so. 🙃🙃

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

Irrespective of whether he was good or bad, right or wrong, the only thing we need to worry about now is that he is no longer good enough and should not be part of the set up next season, whether some believe he’s a legend or not (personally I don’t buy in to the legend but).

I said it at the time and I’ll say it again, they should have let him go when they had a chance and not given h a new contract, he was the captain of a team that was relegated so had done nothing on the pitch to deserve it.

I for one and keeping my fingers crossed he has somehow managed to persuade Stevie G that he’s worth a contract so we can get him off our books (wait for the ‘but we still have to pay him speech’) or if not Rangers then let’s hope others are interested.

Although I suspect his wages in his new contract are still hefty so who could afford him?!

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Rich T The Biscuit"]Irrespective of whether he was good or bad, right or wrong, the only thing we need to worry about now is that he is no longer good enough and should not be part of the set up next season, whether some believe he’s a legend or not (personally I don’t buy in to the legend but).

I said it at the time and I’ll say it again, they should have let him go when they had a chance and not given h a new contract, he was the captain of a team that was relegated so had done nothing on the pitch to deserve it.

I for one and keeping my fingers crossed he has somehow managed to persuade Stevie G that he’s worth a contract so we can get him off our books (wait for the ‘but we still have to pay him speech’) or if not Rangers then let’s hope others are interested.

Although I suspect his wages in his new contract are still hefty so who could afford him?![/quote]

It shouldn''t be too difficult to work that out

You have even spelt it out yourself,

as why would his present contract have any bearing on what another club would pay him if he left before June 2019 ?

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

Because clearly he’s not an idiot so he’s unlikely to want to move away from a contract for less money, therefore unless someone comes in with a better offer, he might aswell sit out the remainder of his contract.

Not that difficult to fathom is it?