Russell Martin again

[kick it off 2,062]

Rangers drew 5-5 with Hearts today.

Sounds like Rangers fans are gutted Martin is coming back to us....

Comments below from twitter:

"Am glad that is the last time I’ll have to watch Russell Martin. Absolutely brutal."

"Only positive I can take from today is that is the last time you will see Russell Martin in a Rangers shirt."

"Just glad the seasons finished and I never need to see Russell Martin again."

"In terms of poor, Russell Martin is the worst I’ve seen, literally has nothing in his locker"

"Russell Martin is a dreadful defender. Slow, apathetic and lacking in commitment"

"Always going to be a goalfest when Russell Martin’s involved"

"My overall well being will be genuinely improved with Russell Martin not being in the team."

"Stevie Gerrard needs to bring in 3 centre halfs, Russell Martin is up there with the worst av ever seen at ibrox"

"Can’t even begin to describe how delighted I am about that being Russell Martin’s last sighting in a Rangers shirt. "

"I need a lie doon! Cant wait for the season compilation of “What was Russell Martin doing? 17/18” from @RangersTV "

"Russell Martin tho he was at fault for 3/5 goals with his man marking"

"Russell Martin has cost us so many goals n his short time I hope we don’t keep him"

"Russell Martin would be better entering Eurovision and singing the Chicken Song."

Sooooo - Safe to say his loan has not been a success? Wonder whether all those who repeatedly made excuses for him being crap for the last 2 years will chime in about how he''s a great centre half now he''s proven he can''t cut it in the SPL?

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

There''s probably been more column inches about Russell Martin on this forum than any topic other than the Brexit one.

Each time the same old arguments from either side of the debate are spouted out ad nauseum. The same old stuff will now be wheeled out again.

That he has proven himself to be a City legend and a good club man is hardly disputable.

That he has effectively come to the end of his lollipop also seems to be the case. For a one time Scottish international with many appearances under his belt to this seemingly well-judged tirade of abuse from no other than supporters of Glasgow Rangers in the space of a relatively short period should tell Russell that his playing days at any decent level are over. He has had a decent career and made the most of his attributes, mainly on behalf of our club.

He might have a role to play in our lower leagues as a player with experience and a leader, but it seems totally unlikely that he will ever turn out for City again.

I will always support and defend him for his undoubted achievements at Carrow Road, but his innings is over as he has finally been caught out.

Thanks Paul Lambert for bringing him to our club.

[Rich T The Biscuit 676]

Agree.

Shame his new contract was based on sentiment and not value he’d bring during that contract, should never have been given and we are still stuck with the remainder of his contract unless we can find somewhere to send him next season.

[alex_ncfc 686]

Finally it hopefully proves he will never turn out for City again.

Sadly it''s also about 3 seasons too late.

[king canary 8,750]

Russell Martin and Steven Whittaker combining to concede 10 goals in one game is one of the more predictable things that has happened.

[lake district canary 4,823]

I suspect his confidence is gone and went some time ago, largely due to the ridiculous amount of over the top criticism received at Norwich.  He was never perfect and he made mistakes, as all players do, but really difficult to perform at your best when subject to the moronic level of vitriol given to him on social media and sometimes at matches.  That it followed him to Rangers is no surprise either, they would have been well aware of the lack of regard he was held in at Norwich and mud sticks.  I feel a bit sorry for him in that regard, you don''t just lose your footballing ability - but you can lose your confidence and that can affect form. The Rangers thing should have been a fresh challenge for him, but by the sound of things he would have been better going to a lesser club to rebuild his confidence and his form. 

[king canary 8,750]

''I suspect his confidence is gone and went some time ago, largely due to the ridiculous amount of over the top criticism received at Norwich.''

Laughable bollocks as usual.

He''s been rubbish for a long time now. He got criticism for being consistently crap on the pitch.

[kick it off 2,062]

LDC - Are you seriously trying to suggest it''s our fault that he''s been **** for Rangers, or that the Rangers fans think he''s ****?

That''s lunacy of the highest order. We''re all football fans, and Russ has more goodwill than most round these parts, but he has never been a decent CB. He was a fantastic RB, and his commitment to NCFC has never been in doubt, but to say that he got tirades of abuse for absolutely no reason is nonsensical and you know it (or at least I hope you do!). He got stick, because he was **** and cost us goals time and time again. There''s no mysterious conspiracy to be horrible to the bloke, but people call it as they see it. 

The fact Rangers fans are saying the same things many of us have for several years has more to do with his performances than it does to do with them trawling social media to see what we''ve said about him for no apparent reason years/months ahead of the loan deal. That is Occam''s razor in action. 

Confidence doesn''t have much to do with this either I''m afraid, I don''t think he has "lost" his footballing ability, I think he moved from a position where he excelled due to his footballing ability (RB) to a position where his inadequacies as a footballer were horribly exposed time and time again and his footballing ability is not suited to. The difference is position, not confidence.

[hogesar 10,761]

Disappointed for him, thought this could have been a good move for him but - and this is worth pointing out - Ranger''s fans aren''t happy with much and a quick twitter search under pretty much any of their players names and it''s not exactly positive.

Big player for us for a number of years though. Wonder if we will just use him in a coach / mentor role next season, assuming there''s no decent moves available for him.

[king canary 8,750]

@KIO

Exactly.

As far as I remember the long term shift to central defence started after Hughton got sacked and we''ve been pretty poor defensively most of that time.

His weakness has always been his positioning but you can get away with that more at fullback- centrally he''s a liability.

[kick it off 2,062]

[quote user="king canary"]@KIO

Exactly.

As far as I remember the long term shift to central defence started after Hughton got sacked and we''ve been pretty poor defensively most of that time.

His weakness has always been his positioning but you can get away with that more at fullback- centrally he''s a liability.[/quote]

His age also has a role with positioning too - at RB if he was out of position, he was usually quick enough to get back. At CB his pace didn''t always bail him out and this has got/will get worse with age.

The other issue with him in the centre is his height. He''s not tiny, but he''s not big enough to command anything in the air and all too often the combo of height and positioning would result in a lofted ball over the top leaving him exposed and the striker through on goal.

[king canary 8,750]

A short central defender can make up for it if his timing is excellent- Craig Fleming springs to mind. Martin''s isn''t though.

Agree on the pace thing too- I remember he used to get a lot of credit for last ditch blocks and tackles that were initially caused by his poor positioning but covered by his (relative) pace for the position.

It was similar with Whittaker; awful positioning but he had some speed when he first arrived so could make up for it on occasions. As he got slower he got more and more exposed and couldn''t adjust his game for it.

[lake district canary 4,823]

Curious isn''t it, people still ridiculing anyone that says he was a good centre back but has lost his way......people still saying he was never a centre back, yet in the Wembley promotion season, he was almost permanently centre back and  not only were we frugal in defence, especially under Neil and got promoted, he was selected in the Championship team of the season.....as centre back.  Therefore the only explanation for his not performing well any more is not his ability, but his form - undermined by years of lambasting critisicm, alot of the time unjust and ridiculous and continued at rangers which looks a bad move for him. He was never perfect, at right back or centre back, but he did make a move to centre back successfully and with good results.  He may or may nit have lost his way footballing wise, but lets give him credit for his achievements....at centre back as well as at right back.

[Keith Scott 294]

''Scapegoat''

[king canary 8,750]

@LDC

His ''achievements'' at centre back amount to basically 6 good months. We actually weren''t great defensively for the first half of the season, until Alex Neil recalled Bassong when we improved massively.

It is notable that Ryan Bennett (who was according to some a lot worse than Martin) has thrived not playing next to Martin, while Martin has continued to play poorly no matter who he is next to.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Hes never been the same since he converted to centre back. He was a useful and reliable right back for us but never in a million years a decent centre back.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

If Russ was never in a million years a decent centreback how on earth did he continually get selected to play there?

[danielsroundabout 9]

Nutty Nigel asks:

If Russ was never in a million years a decent centreback how on earth did he continually get selected to play there?

You are asking the exact same question that so many of us have been foxed by for years, or certainly ever since he declared himself to be a centre-back.

It would seem that the Rangers supporters do not contain a contingent who are prepared to turn a blind eye to his shortcomings.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="danielsroundabout"]Nutty Nigel asks:

If Russ was never in a million years a decent centreback how on earth did he continually get selected to play there?

You are asking the exact same question that so many of us have been foxed by for years, or certainly ever since he declared himself to be a centre-back.

It would seem that the Rangers supporters do not contain a contingent who are prepared to turn a blind eye to his shortcomings.[/quote]

Yes but that isn''t an answer. And as a poster who used to champion Russ I''m surprised you don''t have one. It''s all very well to say "because he declared it himself" but that doesn''t begin to explain why so many managers, both club and international, went along with his declaration. Logic can only offer Russ as a hypnotist. Unless....

[hogesar 10,761]

Last time I went down that path things got interesting on here NN...lets see what this one brings..

[Making Plans 957]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]If Russ was never in a million years a decent centreback how on earth did he continually get selected to play there?[/quote]And there in a nutshell you have the major reason behind our two most recent relegation seasons from the PL and our decline into a mid table Championship club.How a succession of managers continually accepted Martin, Bassong and Bennett as centre backs capable of retaining our PL status is a mystery.Most fans knew during the 2013/14 season that we needed to strengthen that position but amazingly it took another 2 and a half seasons before anything was done about it.And then it was too late.

[king canary 8,750]

The idea that ''because Neil Adams and Alex Neil picked him there he must be good'' doesn''t hold much water. Defensive solidity wasn''t a key aspect of their tenures here.

[hogesar 10,761]

Didnt Hughton play him there a few times too? And then Strachan for Scotland? Thats quite a large number of managers and coaches. Certainly a big enough sample..

[lake district canary 4,823]

Once again people talking about the back line and ignoring the rest of the team''s lack of ability - or desire - to help the defence.  So many goals were as a result of a lack of midfield to either protect the ball or to cover back efficiently enough.  In short, it was the whole team that were lacking many, many times.  Martin made mistakes as all defenders do from time to time, but his being singled out to the extent he was, was - and is still - a little ridiculous.  The one thing that Hughton did that was correct was to try and sort out the defence - and we were solid in enough games to have done ok in the PL - had we scored a few more goals.   Under Adams, the focus was on all out attack - and that led us to problems being too open to counter attacks.  Under Neil, once his initial promotion happened - the emphasis on attack came unstuck too for the same reason.  Our club does not have the resources and players to be able to just be attacking - it may have been fun to watch all the goals going in at CR in the championship last season, but it led us nowhere.  Now farke has come in and tried to get is organised defensively too while also trying to get us to score enough - shades of Hughton there - he has the luxury of being in the championship to do it.   As for Martin, his self-belief will have been tested to the limit with all the nonsense spouted about him, here and now at Rangers.  He may have been at fault for some goals at Rangers - but ALL defenders can be faulted when it comes to goals being scored against them. 

[Guest]

People used to say the same about Craig Fleming but he played a heck of a lot of games for us.

Martin was always targeted as soon as he replaced crowd favourite Spillane.

He wasn''t the best centre back we have had of course but please tell me who the top centre backs are anymore.

If John Stones is the benchmark then that explains why Martin could play CB in a Championship side.

[king canary 8,750]

Worth taking a look outside of this site though.

Whoscored have him ranked us our worst player this season.

Last season he was ranked lower than Bassong, Klose and level with Bennett.

In the Premier League season he was ranked lower than Bassong, Klose and Bennett.

These stats aren''t be all and end all but it does rather get in the way of the notion that it is just fans making out he''s worse than he is.

[hogesar 10,761]

[quote user="king canary"]Worth taking a look outside of this site though.

Whoscored have him ranked us our worst player this season.

Last season he was ranked lower than Bassong, Klose and level with Bennett.

In the Premier League season he was ranked lower than Bassong, Klose and Bennett.

These stats aren''t be all and end all but it does rather get in the way of the notion that it is just fans making out he''s worse than he is.[/quote]

As a Martin fan I actually think you''re probably right with the overall point you''re making. I don''t think he''s better in the air than any of those, and he''s probably only marginally better than Bennett at reading the game and intercepting.

The main reasons for playing Martin came down to his ability on the ball from the centre of defence which helped when we were determined to split the CB''s and play out from the back under Neil. Without him in that role that system wouldn''t have worked. I mean in all honesty it didn''t particularly work anyway because the gap between the two CB''s was huge so any loss of possession on half way and we looked like conceding.

I''m not sure what my point was now but it''s in there somewhere.

[king canary 8,750]

I don''t see him as any better on the ball than Klose to be honest.

I don''t mean to rag on a long term captain of the club who had some very good seasons for us. But as I''ve said before I think some people dug their heels in so much on Martin that they still can''t admit they were wrong on him and now we have the ridiculous claim from LDC that it is all the fans fault.

[Grando 336]

I always thought he was a good RB but a worry at CB. If we get lumbered with him back here for another season I''d hope we''d use him as a backup RB on the odd occasions he might be needed, and not let him near the middle of the defence.

[ZLF 334]

We had the best years of Russ and benefited from his committed efforts for the club as captain, RB and at CB.

I cant loathe him enough to be so critical and it is time to move on - his best days are now gone and we have better options in the positions he plays.

A coaching / leadership role may beckon, but he has to earn his place here to do that - like every role it is the best man for the job, not jobs for the boys; it is a lovely bonus if that is someone already associated with the club, little more.