New captain

[Dean Coneys boots 1,533]

If this season taught us anything it is that the Russel Martin doubters can never be questioned again. The stats whenever he is out are just so much better than when he is in.

I have no issues with him being a good back up and older head to guide the young- but he isn’t going to feature much. So we need a new skipper I say- andtim Klose would excel in the role

Think it would be a good move

[Herman 11,136]

Keep Ivo as captain surely.

[Van wink 2,994]

Ivo has been outstanding as captain and his own game seems to have benefited from the responsibility.

He really is leading by example at the moment, a joy to watch.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

I think Daniel Farke doesn''t really care about things like the captain''s armband (which is are fairly common view in Germany).

No point taking it away from Russell Martin who is well liked and respected by all inside the club.

[Chip20 69]

So, is RM''s absence the only thing that has changed during this recent upturn? The return of Klose, the introduction of Trybull, the switch to two shielding midfielders, the tweaking of the overall ''philosophy'', Ivo''s return to full fitness, change of left back, a new defender''s presence on the bench. None of that has had the slightest impact, right? It can all be attributed directly and 100% to the absence of Russel Martin? Really?

Really, though?

[hogesar 10,772]

[quote user="Chip20"]So, is RM''s absence the only thing that has changed during this recent upturn? The return of Klose, the introduction of Trybull, the switch to two shielding midfielders, the tweaking of the overall ''philosophy'', Ivo''s return to full fitness, change of left back, a new defender''s presence on the bench. None of that has had the slightest impact, right? It can all be attributed directly and 100% to the absence of Russel Martin? Really?

Really, though?[/quote]

It''s undeniable that if you look at Martin - Klose as a direct replacement then Klose has come in and outperformed Martin. So it was the right call and still is.

However there''s nothing to say we wouldn''t also have kept these clean sheets Martin in the team (because that has happened before) in the new tactical structure and (perhaps more importantly) mental attitude to our playing philosophy where the first rule is to defend.

Right now i''d leave him as club captain because all the younger players talk very positively of him and I imagine he''s still a great influence around Colney. Maddisons very direct statements towards fans slagging off RM at the fans forum spoke volumes, I think.

[Chip20 69]

Don''t get me wrong; I do think RM is likely to struggle to get back into the side now, especially with Hanley brought in as competition. I imagine the most likely scenario leading to his return would be an injury/suspension/rest for Pinto. I also have no issue with the captaincy changing hands; especially on the basis of the above. It''s the "Russel Martin doubters can never be questioned again" bit I object to. What arrogant, self-indulgent guff! If RM gets an opportunity again while everything else we have seen recently remains the same over a few games and everything still returns to poo poo then this contention may begin to hold water.

[Guest]

If this season has taught us anything, it''s that some of our fans are a little simple.

[andyc24_uk 79]

Fact is though that we have 5 senior central defenders on the books, and if you were to rank them in order of quality, even Martin''s biggest fans on here surely have to admit that he''s 4th or 5th best at this point, depending on your views on Franke, and he''s the second best RB we have available behind Pinto - Third behind Yanic as well if we play with wingbacks. So even when fit, he''s not going to be getting regular games in the side unless we either lose Ivo, or two from Klose/Zimmermann/Hanley pick up long-term injuries. Even if we switch to 3 in the middle, RM is only likely to be a sub at best. That'' s not in any way knocking his commitment or contribution to the club overall, or suggesting we get rid of him - just a realistic assessment of where his level of ability leaves him in relation to the others. Given that, I agree it makes little to no sense to have the officially nominated captain as a player who doesn''t and isn''t likely to be a regular presence on the field. Totally agree with keeping RM as club captain but officially making Pinto or Klose the leader on the pitch.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Maybe it will be a situation where we have a club captain and a team captain again.

[Woodman 92]

I''m a big fan of Russell Martin''s loyalty and overall contribution to the club, but Andy''s post is a very accurate description of the current position he finds himself in.

[Chip20 69]

Indeed. It''s the simplistic equation of ''RM plays = we lose, RM doesn''t play we fare fare better'' that I object to. That plus the rather baseless suggestion that RM detractors should henceforth never be questioned as if there is somehow now incontrovertible proof that the contention above is true.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

We already have a captain. His name is Russell Martin.

Ivo Pinto will take the armband on the pitch.

[Guest]

Very well put Chip20.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

If Russell Martin is now 4th or 5th best then we haven''t downgraded the squad. In fact if that''s the case we have vastly improved the squad. So DCB has to make an uncomfortable choice...

[hogesar 10,772]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]If Russell Martin is now 4th or 5th best then we haven''t downgraded the squad. In fact if that''s the case we have vastly improved the squad. So DCB has to make an uncomfortable choice...[/quote]

[IMG]https://memecrunch.com/meme/BI6JZ/owned/image.gif?w=400&c=1[/IMG]

[Dean Coneys boots 1,533]

Or Klose was the vast improvement - who was already here and my point re Martin is only all the stronger in how easily we replaced him with two cheap untested players.

As it happens I think Zimmo is a great addition - I have hoes franke has more to offer. But Martin would look poor in L1 these days so upgrade need not have been major

My own feeling is we are a midtavle looking outfit now - we can’t seem to defend and attack together

[The gut 0]

So who is the captain of the ship and is that someone a different person to the skipper of the boat?

I believe Russ is not even sailing with the rest of the crew, let alone being allowed anywhere near the helm. As I understand it, he’s more like building a raft with the sea scouts.

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

I was under the impression Captain Birdseye was in charge

[Commando Canary 0]

I love to say I told you so, but i told you so!

The team is without a shadow of a doubt better off without Martin. It’s just a shame that it had to come to an end for him the way it did at Millwall.

[Herman 11,136]

I''d read Chip20''s posts.

[Commando Canary 0]

You can''t argue with the the results, they speak for themselves!

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

My biggestroblem with this is the posters who take absolute glee in seeing Martin usurped and triumphantly say “I told you so”. Some people just love their egos stoked I guess.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

* my biggest problem

[Herman 11,136]

As was pointed out it does make them look simple just to blame one person for the change in fortune.

[pete 372]

Russ does have the satisfaction of that extended contract just the latest example of City giving silly contracts including A Neil, Jarvis, and Naismith. Hopefully might now be the case and looking at shorter terms but Trybull on one year looks similarly silly but at time unknown quantity, extend it now.

[king canary 8,763]

The flip side is that it does feel like some dug their heels in so hard on the Martin thing that they refuse to admit being wrong.

Sure the change in formation and the extra screening has helped but Klose has been a huge improvement on Martin and seems to have had a positive effect on Zimmerman.

[sgncfc 1,332]

Russell Martin has been a fantastic player for us and deserves to be a Norwich City icon. Everyone''s time comes to an end but please remember just how great he was - the underpants dance; the goal against QPR; lifting that playoff trophy and many others. He showed a commitment and a loyalty over many years which deserves some respect and those on here who rubbish him have no class.

I suspect he will get a move in January to get a deal at a League One or Two level - I hope that he then comes back like others have to add to our coaching staff, history and continuity.

If his time in the first team is really over, please show some respect to the man. Absolute legend.

[king canary 8,763]

No doubt he''s been an excellent servant and has not deserved some of the stick he''s had recently.

The situation reminds me a bit of Nigel Worthington - someone who once he left we were able to appreciate as a fantastic servant who maybe stayed too long.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

As a longtime stalwart supporter of Russell Martin I consider that it would now seem that the facts speak for themselves. And don''t they just? ..... Even taking into account all the other factors that have contributed to our turnaround, and there are a few of those.

He has gradually lost something and, if recent results are anything to go by, might well now be considered a slight liability (nb. "slight.")

As a player who probably always had to work at his game, not possessing the natural talents of others, this gradual decline perhaps from into last season and on wards is not surprising. Injuries might also have hastened this due to the ageing process.

He will no doubt serve the club in other capacities, but for the time being as a last resort back-up he is good to have around and who could think of a better Club Captain?

Is this the end of RM as a leading figure at the sharp end of the club''s ambitions or will he bounce back?