ec-p 90 Posted November 1, 2017 Anyone have any info as to when he is back? Or what''s wrong with him? I know he hasn''t lived up to expectations but I think he has been missed these last few games. Creates space, is a goal threat ( ok, not many go in but still a threat, he always has a go). Bit of guille and experience in midfield etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rogue Baboon 0 Posted November 1, 2017 Imagine the uproar if Naismith started at no10 instead of Maddison or Hoolahan? BUT I can’t see another midfielder who would actually try and get beyond the striker instead of dropping off and waiting for the ball to feet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted November 1, 2017 I’m not a big Naismith fan but I’d have him in the trek every week over Vrancic the donkey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,164 Posted November 1, 2017 I''ve given up on Naisy being of any real use to us.Pity, but when I think about him it is only in terms of £££££££££''s and a wide open drain.A veritable vacuum cleaner of well needed funds.Mission unaccomplished from all but day one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJP 79 Posted November 1, 2017 The only place I''d play him would be off a striker but not as a 10.Can''t say I''d lose any sleep if he never played for us again though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,606 Posted November 1, 2017 I''m with GJPThe only place he fits is off a striker like Jerome but that involves a change of playing style and moving someone like Maddison out of position. Due to being unable to shift certain players the club still has the imbalance in the squad that Neil left us with- 4 players who all want to play the number 10 role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kanadyan Kanary 121 Posted November 1, 2017 For me, Naismith has been a huge disappointment and I see no reason why he should come back into the team. He has been given plenty of opportunity to show what he can do but has failed. It is amazing how player performance seems to improve, in the minds of the fans, when they are not playing. It''s probably just an attempt to find a solution to the lack of goals. Naismith has shown nothing to suggest he is the answer. Reminds me of the definition of madness! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodman 92 Posted November 1, 2017 Lots of comment about how people dislike him or don''t rate him, where he''d play and who he''d replace but none on what his injury is and when he''s likely to be back? Anyone know? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,606 Posted November 1, 2017 Think Farke mentioned he''d be training after the international break like Pritchard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
writeronthestorm 4 Posted November 1, 2017 I know RVW gets dragged up a lot when we talk about wasted money on a player who didn''t fit in to our system, but Naismith deserves equal billing IMHO.He''s a mercurial talent that doesn''t show the consistency to be involved in the first team regularly. He''s neither creative enough or enough of a goal threat to warrant inclusion. He does get stuck in, but I only see that as a harbinger of his eventual move into central midfield...a move I expect will coincide with his move into lower league football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodman 92 Posted November 1, 2017 So, is it time to cash in on him, pay up his contract ''by mutual consent''? Can''t see him leaving in January, or more specifically, anyone agreeing personal terms, given his wages here.Same with Jarvis... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canarymoon 0 Posted November 1, 2017 [quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]I’m not a big Naismith fan but I’d have him in the trek every week over Vrancic the donkey[/quote]If Vrancic is a donkey then Jerome is a mule Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samwam27 527 Posted November 1, 2017 Need to cut our losses. Never lived up to anywhere near the price tag, and IMHO given far more chances than RVW.Free up the wage bill by selling or letting go both Jarvis and Naismith. It''s not like we''d miss either of them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted November 1, 2017 [quote user="Samwam27"]Need to cut our losses. Never lived up to anywhere near the price tag, and IMHO given far more chances than RVW.Free up the wage bill by selling or letting go both Jarvis and Naismith. It''s not like we''d miss either of them[/quote]we are still liable for Naismith''s full contracthow would ''letting go'' worksay he doesn''t want to, what then ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted November 1, 2017 hoola''Vrancic the donkey''shame on you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samwam27 527 Posted November 2, 2017 [quote user="Rhubarb"][quote user="Samwam27"]Need to cut our losses. Never lived up to anywhere near the price tag, and IMHO given far more chances than RVW.Free up the wage bill by selling or letting go both Jarvis and Naismith. It''s not like we''d miss either of them[/quote]we are still liable for Naismith''s full contracthow would ''letting go'' worksay he doesn''t want to, what then ?[/quote]It''s called releasing a player by "mutual consent" which Norwich do all the time, and a settlement package is agreed (which in most cases means we don''t necessarily pay up a full contract).In truth we''ve been paying Naismith and moreso Jarvis to "not play" for over a year, so anyway they can be offloaded frees up wages!And I expect players who have been sold over ;last few years may have expressed they didn''t want to go and yet the club still sells them.Strewth! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donkey dangler 0 Posted November 2, 2017 We may not have the money (unless we sell someone) to sign the experienced striker we need. Yet this club wasted money thanks to our former manager.If Naismith is on £50k per week then with National Insurance Contributions we are looking at £2.75 m per year plus his £8.5m transfer fee. So thats roughly £18m wasted.Then theres Jarvis £2.5m transfer fee plus wages.Probably £2m while we were in the Prem plus 60% of that for the next three seasons (3 x £1.2m) = £5.6m + NICLets call that £6.2m + £2.5m transfer fee = £8.7mAndreau - transfer fee £1m plus wages.McGovern - wagesAbout £30m poured down the drain and thats not including Windschut or Rab''s payoffThanks Rab! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donkey dangler 0 Posted November 2, 2017 [quote user="Samwam27"]Need to cut our losses. Never lived up to anywhere near the price tag, and IMHO given far more chances than RVW.Free up the wage bill by selling or letting go both Jarvis and Naismith. It''s not like we''d miss either of them[/quote]Who is going to want either of them, on their wages? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 5,141 Posted November 2, 2017 Strewth indeed!The important words here are ''contract'' and ''mutual consent''. We''re legally contracted to pay all our players a certain amount over the length of their contract. The only way that can be changed is if both parties agree (mutually consent) to it. The only way Jarvis, Naismith or whoever is likely to consent to leave early is if the alternative to staying is more attractive. This may include the new club paying some of what they would have received if they had stayed here, but why would they go if they will lose out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,534 Posted November 2, 2017 Perhaps somebody knows more than me, wouldn''t be hard, but I don''t think we can to private little deals with individual players that break the contract. For instance as I understand it, if we''d have wanted to keep John Ruddy this season we could only have done it by paying him what he was on last season. I don''t think even Ruddy could have agreed a lower rate. The option could only be triggered at the same rate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feedthewolf 4,846 Posted November 2, 2017 As I understand it, in order to terminate Naismith''s (or anyone''s) contract, we would have to mutually agree on a severance package. It''s a bit of brinkmanship on both parts - I''m sure Naismith would relish the opportunity to play regular first-team football, he seems a genuine guy and not a mercenary. However, if you''re getting paid (say) £40k a week and you know that realistically any other club that would come in for you as a free agent would only pay (say) £20k, you want to ensure that you get your fair share of the contract. It''s not his fault we offered him so high a wage, after all.The flipside from the club''s point of view is that we wouldn''t want to pay him a seven-figure sum up front to kill the contract when he might yet attract interest from other clubs and leave in the transfer window. We''d forego a reasonable transfer fee (or maybe even let him go for no fee) to get him off the wage bill, so it comes down to whether he''s prepared to take a wage cut to get guaranteed first-team football, or accept a smaller severance payment and trust his agent to negotiate him a decent new contract elsewhere.The third way, of course, and in my view the most likely, is that he plays some part for the remainder of the season and try to play his way back into the team.The final option is that he ''does a Bogarde'' and sits in the ressies picking up his £40k a week for the next 18 months. I genuinely think he''d rather be playing first-team football than do that. I hope I''m right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,534 Posted November 2, 2017 Maybe if another club bought his contract for part of the wage and we made up the rest? However i think the contract has to be honoured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clint 221 Posted November 3, 2017 Feed the wolf, I''m intrigued as to why you think Naismith is a genuine guy and not a mercenary?He left Rangers at a time when he could have stayed and help them get back on track. Many did stay and if you speak to any Rangers fan they can''t stand Naismith as they say he couldn''t wait to jump ship and pick up a pay packet elsewhere.He held us to ransom and would not join unless we met with his inflated demands, despite being rarely featuring for Everton for a number of months. When we tried to offload him to Sunderland, he wouldn''t go as they wouldn''t meet his wage demands despite being a massive flop here and being far from first choice.I''m sure we also probably tried to get rid of him again this summer but yet he is still here!Seems pretty mercenary to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJP 79 Posted November 7, 2017 Time for the club to put out a story that they are desperate to hold on to Naismith and they really don''t want Moyes to come after him with all their Premier League money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted November 7, 2017 [quote user="Clint"]Feed the wolf, I''m intrigued as to why you think Naismith is a genuine guy and not a mercenary?He left Rangers at a time when he could have stayed and help them get back on track. Many did stay and if you speak to any Rangers fan they can''t stand Naismith as they say he couldn''t wait to jump ship and pick up a pay packet elsewhere.He held us to ransom and would not join unless we met with his inflated demands, despite being rarely featuring for Everton for a number of months. When we tried to offload him to Sunderland, he wouldn''t go as they wouldn''t meet his wage demands despite being a massive flop here and being far from first choice.I''m sure we also probably tried to get rid of him again this summer but yet he is still here!Seems pretty mercenary to me.[/quote]It''s probably due to the help he gives charities that work with the homeless, he''s paid for and served Christmas lunches & he also bought match tickets when he was at Everton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,606 Posted November 7, 2017 @clintI think he is a genuine guy in terms of all the work he does with charities and the influence it sounds like he has with the youngsters on the training pitch. However I also disagree with FTW that he''d jump at the chance to go elsewhere to start games. I think he''s on a good contract, has no need to go and sign for less mo ey elsewhere and realises this is probably his final payday- after this contract it''s probably back to Scotland for him. I don''t blame him for this one bit but he had the chance to go to Sunderland a couple of summers ago and didn''t and it sounds like we did everything we could to get rid of him this summer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 936 Posted November 7, 2017 Perhaps Moyes will have him at Wet Spam. He seemed to like & rate him and probably the feeling was mutual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodman 92 Posted November 7, 2017 Didn''t Moyes try to get him at Sunderland & he turned down the personal terms? West Ham must have loads of money... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feedthewolf 4,846 Posted November 7, 2017 [quote user="king canary"]@clintI think he is a genuine guy in terms of all the work he does with charities and the influence it sounds like he has with the youngsters on the training pitch. However I also disagree with FTW that he''d jump at the chance to go elsewhere to start games. I think he''s on a good contract, has no need to go and sign for less mo ey elsewhere and realises this is probably his final payday- after this contract it''s probably back to Scotland for him. I don''t blame him for this one bit but he had the chance to go to Sunderland a couple of summers ago and didn''t and it sounds like we did everything we could to get rid of him this summer.[/quote]Sorry, forgot about this thread! Yes, I was referring to the charity stuff and work with the homeless, sounds like a guy with a moral compass from what I''ve read. It''s all guesswork, of course, but I''d have thought he''d have wanted to try and cement his place in the Scotland squad for the 2020 qualifiers, and he''s not going to do that getting scraps from the bench in the Championship. Farke still talks about him as if he''s a part of his plans, so maybe he will play a part for us yet. Wait and see, I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,671 Posted November 7, 2017 I think during the good run people were waving goodbye to Martin and Naismith. I said i thought theyd both still have roles to play and considering weve only lost 3 games in a row the amount that are now considering him for the team shows the current fickle nature of our support. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites