Stevenage friendly

[king canary 7,606]

@Horse

Absolutely there is nothing much to be read into pre-season results. It is a bit of a concern to be going into a pre-season match with only 16 players though.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I have to say I would feel a bit better about things if we bagged a centre back with a bit of championship experience between now and the season kicking off. We look very thin there if we get even a couple of injuries.

We also seem to have a lot of pre season games this year and some players have a lot of minutes under their belts already so hope it''s all being monitored/managed properly and they don''t get burnt out.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="king canary"]@Horse

Absolutely there is nothing much to be read into pre-season results. It is a bit of a concern to be going into a pre-season match with only 16 players though.[/quote]Jones; Godfrey, Zimmermann, Klose; Josh Murphy, Reid, Vrancic, Lewis; Hoolahan, Oliveira, Pritchard

Subs:

McGovern, Husband, Jerome, Wildschut, Maddison

Gunn, Jacob Murphy - holidayMathews - 2 keepers already thereMartin, Tettey, Naismith, Watkins, Toffolo, Pintoseems like 25 to me

[king canary 7,606]

Sigh.

How many of them were in the squad?

16.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

You''d imagine those rested tonight will be involved on Saturday and a few others rested.

Defensive woe? All a bit dramatic Archant.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

I would simply say this.

Our attack is good enough to challenge for promotion

Our defence is the worst I can think of in all my years supporting the club. Yes, currently even worse than last year. Both Bennet and Basson would add to it not detract.

If this ain''t addressed soon we are in for a torrid season

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]I would simply say this.

Our attack is good enough to challenge for promotion

Our defence is the worst I can think of in all my years supporting the club. Yes, currently even worse than last year. Both Bennet and Basson would add to it not detract.

If this ain''t addressed soon we are in for a torrid season[/quote]Derveld? Doherty? Otsemobor? Archibald-Henville? If this is really the worst defence you can remember, you''ve got a pretty selective memory.Sure, they''re no Culverhouse, Butterworth, Linighan and Bowen, but I''d take Pinto, Klose, Martin and Husband (with Lewis, Toffolo, Efete, Godfrey and Zimmerman plus no doubt one or two more in reserve) ahead of the majority of our back fours from the noughties. We''ve already bought in six players and there are still more than three weeks until the season starts.Did you see Ryan Bennett play football in the second half of last season? Did he really look like a footballer, let alone a motivated footballer?

[Jools 584]

Dean Coney''s boots ~ "I would simply say this.

Our attack is good enough to challenge for promotion

Our defence is the worst I can think of in all my years supporting the club. Yes, currently even worse than last year. Both Bennet and Basson would add to it not detract.

If this ain''t addressed soon we are in for a torrid season".Husband signed - Leistner on the radar - both defenders -- How much sooner do you want the club to address the defence situation? Or are you requesting we reincarnate H.G. Wells and employ him as chief scout?

[king canary 7,606]

The defence right now is weaker just in the basic sense of numbers. Right now our starting back four would be Pinto, Klose, Martin, Husbands with a guy from the fan fourth division backing the central two up.

We do need to add quality and numbers to this unit but as mentioned we have plenty of time.

[king canary 7,606]

@Jools

I think it''s fair enough to wait until players are actually playing for us before counting them no?

[HertsCanary93 222]

Very poor performance in my opinion.

My concern wasn''t particularly with the defense (although it didn''t inspire confidence). The biggest issue today was a very unbalanced team.

Reed was the holding midfielder and looker very tidy, but other than him we had a bit of a free for all of attacking midfielders in front of him. There was a noticeable gap between reed and the attacking players so when Stevenage pressed there were no options to pass to.

We also seemed obsessed with going short from goal kicks, but with no options for the defense to pass to we invited a lot of pressure on to our back line.

Only pre-season though let''s hope Farke can get them sorted out.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

the defence will be Key this year not just stopping but starting the play

since Farke has joined the training and tactics coaching have been building from the back short passing no long balls

now that will add extra pressure to the Defenders

we will likely see some mistakes along the way with slack passing etc but that will i am sure and told will benefit the team in the long run

This will take for players to learn new system and thats exactly what pres season is for !! we might well give a couple of goals away in the season but that''s his style

[hogesar 9,672]

We''re changing our entire playing philosophy and half the squad in one pre season; which is requiring significantly harder training regimes etc.

So nothing about yesterday was surprising or concerning. It''s clear we''re still actively adding to the squad so no concern ''re the defence yet either.

Oh, and anyone who thinks Bennett would improve the quality of our defence clearly hasn''t seen much of him recently.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="king canary"]Sigh.

How many of them were in the squad?

16.[/quote]oh dearyou haven''t quite got this have you 16 was all that was neededor are we to get you whining after every game that 14 or so were not sat on the bench

[Woodman 92]

The patient, passing, possession game that is clearly Farke''s preferred style will take some time to get embedded. I have concerns that some of our supporters will be frustrated by it and will want us to lump it forward like we have done in previous seasons.

Also, teams will very quickly cotton on to it and do what we have done to teams who did it last season and press high up the pitch to force us into a mistake in a dangerous area.

Still, that''s what pre-season is for, and it''s work in progress.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="HertsCanary93"]Very poor performance in my opinion.

My concern wasn''t particularly with the defense (although it didn''t inspire confidence). The biggest issue today was a very unbalanced team.

Reed was the holding midfielder and looker very tidy, but other than him we had a bit of a free for all of attacking midfielders in front of him. There was a noticeable gap between reed and the attacking players so when Stevenage pressed there were no options to pass to.

We also seemed obsessed with going short from goal kicks, but with no options for the defense to pass to we invited a lot of pressure on to our back line.

Only pre-season though let''s hope Farke can get them sorted out.[/quote]That was probably more to do with seeing how various players measured up than any indication of who will be playing come Aug 5thHowever the team and the style of play should be pretty much ready by the Brighton game. I say should as more that it needs to be, rather that it will.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Woodman"]The patient, passing, possession game that is clearly Farke''s preferred style will take some time to get embedded. I have concerns that some of our supporters will be frustrated by it and will want us to lump it forward like we have done in previous seasons.

Also, teams will very quickly cotton on to it and do what we have done to teams who did it last season and press high up the pitch to force us into a mistake in a dangerous area.

Still, that''s what pre-season is for, and it''s work in progress.[/quote]

It requires fans to be patient - as it did in the 80''s, when a possession/short passing game was instilled to our game under Stringer.  The Dortmund way is a kind of super-charged Stringer style of play - short passing and high energy.  It''s going to require the players to be super fit and up for that way of playing- but the good thing from their point of view because a high energy game is easy when you''ve got the ball and he opposition haven''t....and that is surely the plan, look after the ball above everything else, then you won''t have to go around chasing the game all the time. The problems we''ve had since the Lambert era - have been the inability to keep hold of the ball well enough, giving it away way too cheaply and putting ourselves on the back foot.  Hopefully that is going to change.

[Bill 1,788]

"when you''ve got the ball and he opposition haven''t."it does tend to be that or the other way round

[norfolkngood 1,087]

The patient, passing, possession game that is clearly Farke''s preferred style will take some time to get embedded. I have concerns that some of our supporters will be frustrated by it and will want us to lump it forward like we have done in previous seasons.

Also, teams will very quickly cotton on to it and do what we have done to teams who did it last season and press high up the pitch to force us into a mistake in a dangerous area.

yes that will be the case but not if you use a TRIGGER system in that tactic which we will see this season

so if the team is high pressing you and pushing you back then you see they have pushed to far leaving that long ball into space its called a Trigger tactic

same if the ball is in the Air near a fullback a trigger is called to press that player by as many players near him so he has less time to control it or bring it down causing mistakes and panic by the player

that will happen in certain games so then you have a team not knowing what system you are playing and not pressing so high this will allow us to play

we will see the short building from back farke''s way but he will trigger different tactics throughout a game to keep other teams guessing

he does have a plan A.B.C throughout games

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="norfolkngood"]The patient, passing, possession game that is clearly Farke''s preferred style will take some time to get embedded. I have concerns that some of our supporters will be frustrated by it and will want us to lump it forward like we have done in previous seasons.

Also, teams will very quickly cotton on to it and do what we have done to teams who did it last season and press high up the pitch to force us into a mistake in a dangerous area.

yes that will be the case but not if you use a TRIGGER system in that tactic which we will see this season

so if the team is high pressing you and pushing you back then you see they have pushed to far leaving that long ball into space its called a Trigger tactic

same if the ball is in the Air near a fullback a trigger is called to press that player by as many players near him so he has less time to control it or bring it down causing mistakes and panic by the player

that will happen in certain games so then you have a team not knowing what system you are playing and not pressing so high this will allow us to play

we will see the short building from back farke''s way but he will trigger different tactics throughout a game to keep other teams guessing

he does have a plan A.B.C throughout games[/quote]Will we also be calling all opposition players ''Dave''?

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="norfolkngood"]The patient, passing, possession game that is clearly Farke''s preferred style will take some time to get embedded. I have concerns that some of our supporters will be frustrated by it and will want us to lump it forward like we have done in previous seasons.

Also, teams will very quickly cotton on to it and do what we have done to teams who did it last season and press high up the pitch to force us into a mistake in a dangerous area.

yes that will be the case but not if you use a TRIGGER system in that tactic which we will see this season

so if the team is high pressing you and pushing you back then you see they have pushed to far leaving that long ball into space its called a Trigger tactic

same if the ball is in the Air near a fullback a trigger is called to press that player by as many players near him so he has less time to control it or bring it down causing mistakes and panic by the player

that will happen in certain games so then you have a team not knowing what system you are playing and not pressing so high this will allow us to play

we will see the short building from back farke''s way but he will trigger different tactics throughout a game to keep other teams guessing

he does have a plan A.B.C throughout games[/quote]Will we also be calling all opposition players ''Dave''?

[/quote]No, but the target man will be called ''The lone ranger''.

[hogesar 9,672]

Uh City 1st, we didn''t only have 5 subs because that''s all we needed yesterday....

[Stone 0]

Before we get too hysterical about continued defensive frailties I think it''s worth remembering we were experimenting with a back 3 last night, and 2 of those 3 are unlikely to be starting come August 5th. Also we only used our 2nd and 3rd choice goalkeepers.

Whereas the forward line had a first team look about it, the back line didn''t.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

Norfolkngood is right. The term is ''gegenpressing'', a high pressing game with a more direct use of the ball therefore stretching opponents when they try to counter our tactics.

We have to be highly skilled in possession and hunt quickly in packs when we lose it.

This will take more than a preseason rebuild so we really have to be patient.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

wtf happened there?

[king canary 7,606]

Yes of course, we just didn''t need any more subs. Even though we needed 9 against Cobh. And 7 against Lowestoft. And we ended up with a left back in central midfield.

If you believe that we took 5 subs out of pure free choice then I''d argue it''s you that ''hasn''t quite got this.'' Yet again.

[Woodman 92]

Thanks norfolkngood, when being pressed to play it long, I''ve often seen teams use a pass from the keeper to a player near to the touchline on half way. Is that what you mean by a trigger?

By the way, how is Wes fitting into the 4-1-4-1 or 3-4-3 system in these friendlies? Central or roving role with Pritchard?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Good article on pressing triggers is here:

http://eplindex.com/55721/pressing-analysis-pochettino-sampaoli-guardiola-bielsa.html

Pochettino is known to have over 15 different triggers for when players should and shouldn''t press.

Farke isn''t a ''gegenpress'' style coach, he is more focused on possession. Whereas teams that go for an intense press tend to have far less of the ball, their style is based around a quick transition.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

Bethnal maybe i didn''t explain it very clearly but you are correct but farke loves the Trigger action tactic to win the ball back ASAP to keep it again but not all times of the game

keep the ball build from back

when we lose it we will pressing style but when there is a trigger action if a ball is hard to control or in the air get players around the ball player ASAP and hassle to a greater degree than a normal pressing style

these will only be a action at certain times of the game

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Triggers aren''t a tactic, but a method of teaching players how to implement a tactic. All teams use ''triggers'' but it depends which ones you use and in which situations that defines the tactics you play.

Some teams have very simple triggers - Mourinho basically has it that as soon as the opposition reach the final third, you press hard. Klopp and Wagner have very few triggers also, but a very different approach, their trigger is basically ''if the opposition has the ball, press''. This is the ''gegenpress'' that someone else earlier in the thread mentioned.

Pochettino, Pep, Bielsa etc use a lot more triggers as they have a more nuanced approach to pressing. Farke said he is more Pep than Klopp in an early interview so I expect to see this more nuanced approach as well.