Alexit - in our out?

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

[quote user="Scot-e-dog"][quote user="Len"]In. He needs more time.[/quote]

More time to do what precisely Len?

Another transfer window beyond the 4 or 5 he has had, where he has failed to strengthen the squad where really required? Another season beyond the two failures he has had? More time to start learning from his mistakes perhaps?[/quote]Didn''t realise that getting us to the Premiership was a failure!!Although I do know what you mean - the Premier isn''t anywhere near as competitive or exciting as the Championship. After a bit of excitement last year it''s turned back to into the usual procession this year with the title decided before the end of  February.

[Highland Canary 76]

I suspect after Neil''s first 10 years we''ll get Frank. And looking at his ability to lay the ball off in the shooting warm-up that too will be a long decade. You couldn''t make it up.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]I suspect after Neil''s first 10 years we''ll get Frank. And looking at his ability to lay the ball off in the shooting warm-up that too will be a long decade. You couldn''t make it up.[/quote]Except you just did, Highland [;)]

[morty 0]

I guess it depends on what you take form Jerome''s interview, how much the board already know about the state of the dressing room, and what percentage of blame you decide to apportion to players and manager.

We all know a clear out will happen in the summer, regardless of what division we are in, and who the manager is. And a lot depends on your perception of where we are now, and how much you think we can salvage of the season.

Yes, we could bring a new manager in, and hope for a miracle run that propels us into the playoffs. But who is that man? I don''t think Rowett or Warburton are really any better than Alex, and Rowett actually has a lower win percentage than our current manager.

Or we can accept the season is all but over, and wait for the clearout in the summer.

When I was asked the question during our bad run my proviso was that as long as the players are still playing for the manager, and he has the dressing room then I am fine with Alex staying, as I accept the boards plan of longevity.

However, as soon as a manager loses the dressing room, you have a big decision to make. For me I''d say "Out" but only if there is a genuinely better option, that we would look to keep for the long term. Changing manager now, and still not making the play offs, would just be plain daft.

[Waveney Canary 0]

Out and the pitchforks and torches need to be out for the stowmarket 2 next home game as well

[Essjayess 307]

Out.Morty, i agree with you about the seasons over part, but dont agree that bringing in a new manager now is plain daft. A new manager could have 8 to 10 games to watch the team, form his own  opinion on the ones to get rid. Another factor to consider, Dijks will head back to Ajax end season, Klose will likely not want another season here, Turner and Whittaker  are likely to go, thats 4 guys gone from defence, and STILL leaving Bassong, Martin and Bennett..from his transfer windows here with us, id say its highly unlikely Alex has the capability to find 4 replacements in defence, and thats not even mentioning midfield and up front.Also, Alexs policy is to raid the top two divisions or Europe for first team replacements, only raiding L1 and L2 for young guys, presumably ones "for the future". But situation has changed dramatically, money constraints and league position means we need a smaller, leaner, more hungry outfit, all the more real after we ''ve heard Cams words after the match. Above all, we need a manager with the capability of shifting many out, also bringing a fair few in, a thing Alex clearly cannot do.I agree with ricardo, City are set in this division for quite awhile, fans need to accept the reality, but more so, Delia needs to pull the plug on Alex, and bring in a guy who can do the above things, plus get the playing staff hungry again, playing as a team, and believing in themselves.

[morty 0]

The point still remains though, who?

And re my point, I think there are two many players with their heads already out the exit door, for any new manager to learn anything.

[Essjayess 307]

As to who...well, posters on forums will name many different guys, and other posters will will say no way jose...meaning, i doubt there is any one name that remotely get many thumbs up. Gunny said that many would be attracted to the job, of course its a decision for the club themselves. Personally, being honest, i have no clue whatsoever.What you say about some players with their minds already thinking about the exit door must have some merit, seeing how the season has panned out, and from what Cam was saying. To me, all the more reason to get a new guy in asap,  because it will only linger longer in the present set up, and even possibly spread.

[Jack Barak 46]

[quote user="morty"]The point still remains though, who?

And re my point, I think there are two many players with their heads already out the exit door, for any new manager to learn anything.[/quote]

I agree with this with regard to the experienced players - we can all see who is trying and who are likely to be here next year - Howson, Pinto, Jacob M, Wes, CJ, Olivera.

We could appoint a temporary until the end of the season (Irvine or Martin or even Culverhouse from Lynn) on the basis they come in and blood some young players along the way. If we aren''t going to make the playoffs then we may as well not make them with Godfrey, Morris, Maddison, Pritchard and the Murphys getting game time.

[Hairy Canary 704]

I also think there is value in getting a new guy in now. It''s not just the players out of contract that need to be assessed it''s also the weaknesses and imbalance in the squad that need to be understood. Same as needing to assess the mental strength and leadership in the group.

These things take time as does establishing a playing style that we will look to employ next season. If we wait too long the new guy will not have enough time to work things through probably and could well end up making rushed decisions.

We need to be honest. This season is gone so we need to take as much value as we can from what remains.

As for who is to come in? Well I personally don''t have a clue but I certainly expect the board to have an ongoing contingency plan about a replacement. I really knew very little about Lambert and nothing about Neil when they came in but no doubt they were being looked at for some time before.

We will see but my nightmare scenario is that AN will be entrusted to make the big calls in the summer, regardless of how the rest of this season pans out.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

If we change in the summer, the new guy has a month before the season starts. He has to assess the current squad, convince players to stay and sign players to fit what he wants and replace what we have lost. That means the squad won''t be ready until the end of the transfer window - already we are gambling 4/5 games

Change now, he can look at the squad, convince certain players to stay (Dijks? Klose? Pritchard?) and then focus on the transfer window. We would start the season in a much better place in my opinion.

Obviously, the who is a huge question. Rowett & Warburton seem obvious but are not necessarily better appointments, although neither have ever had the funds that Neil has been given. Wasn''t Rowetts Birmingham team built on a shoestring budget?

Are better managers going to be available in the summer? Are Leeds really going to get rid of Monk? If so, I would be in there the day it happened. What about other championship managers? Jokanovic? Heckingbottam? Even Wagner? Surely if Neil resigns (not sacked, payoff etc) we have the financial clout to poach from another team

[Salford 0]

Out. Season was done a long time ago, but now that it is well and truly done it''s time to plan ahead for next season. That starts with changing the manager. Neil hasn''t become a bad manager overnight, but ever since Newcastle away last season he certainly hasn''t been making the progress we''d all hoped for and as a team we''ve been getting progressively worse.

[Scot-e-dog 34]

[quote user="Creative Midfielder"][quote user="Scot-e-dog"][quote user="Len"]In. He needs more time.[/quote]

More time to do what precisely Len?

Another transfer x window beyond the 4 or 5 he has had, where he has failed to strengthen the squad where really required? Another season beyond the two failures he has had? More time to start learning from his mistakes perhaps?[/quote]Didn''t realise that getting us to the Premiership was a failure!!Although I do know what you mean - the Premier isn''t anywhere near as competitive or exciting as the Championship. After a bit of excitement last year it''s turned back to into the usual procession this year with the title decided before the end of  February.[/quote]

Okay, so he has only had one and three quarter seasons of relative failure (highly likely to he two by the end of this season).

The question still remains though - what do we think AN needs more time to do?

CamJam''s interview is telling in so many ways. We''ve got all these experienced players going backwards under AN''s tutelage. Let him buy more players, what confidence do we have that they will advance? Let him have a crack at our youth, what confidence do we have they will advance?

Paddy Davitt''s interview (on the same Pinkun page as CamJam''s) suggests that AN has only one trick, and that is arrogantly puffing his chest out. Looks like that was exactly what the squad needed when he arrived, but it''s simply not enough to sustain a charge.

[hogesar 9,671]

I''m not being funny but even if we don''t scour Europe this time it really wouldn''t be difficult to find a manager more experienced and with more tactical nous than what we have right now.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Out ............ and now.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Absolute nonsense that us fans have to have someone in mind to replace before we can sack a manager. Ludicrous.

Did we all say Lambert in 2009? No.

Did anyone suggest Neil in 2015? No.

The notion that you should retain a woefully underperforming manager because some posters on a forum can''t name a replacement is ridiculous.

[king canary 7,606]

Well scouring Europe would probably lead to Alan Irvine being in charge.

Amazing how often the best candidate for jobs seems to be already at Norwich...

[king canary 7,606]

@hoola han

Completely agree. Especially as even when candidates are named, nobody will agree.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

A competent board, and as McNally mentioned more than once, will have a list of managers worth considering at all times.

[im spartacus canary 0]

Out and out now ! If we have to have a caretaker in charge whilst we sort this debacle out then so be it.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

I thought CamJam was almost in tears during that interview, an indication of how much he cares and his frustration at certain players. I have always thought the main problem has been with the players rather than the manager because they can turn in a magnificent performance when they want to. Even so, I accept it is up to the manager to get the best from his players.

So now that promotion has gone I would give AN the chance to play the youngsters and those who will be here next season, dropping the deadwood and the trouble makers.

This should have been sorted out last season. We never should have gone into this year with so many players not wanting to be here or not good enough to play. For that, the manager and the Board are to blame for not recognising and tackling the problem.

If Niall is allowed to play the youngsters and if we get a positive response from them, even if we don''t get the results, then I would give the manager until the end of the season to prove that it was the dropped players causing the problems.

If we carry on with our collective head in the sand with the same failed players and in denial of the problem then we need an immediate clearout of manager, coaches and board of directors.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]A competent board, and as McNally mentioned more than once, will have a list of managers worth considering at all times.[/quote]In relation to Norwich City, I can see a major flaw in your very sound logic there Hoola. The words "competent board".

[Ray 111]

Morty,

To quote you, "When I was asked the question during our bad run my proviso was that as long as the players are still playing for the manager, and he has the dressing room then I am fine with Alex staying, as I accept the boards plan of longevity."

A statement I ''sort'' of agree with because there are issues rather than just ''playing for the manager'' however, and perhaps here lies the rub, he lost the dressing room a long time ago, typically long term resentment doesn''t appear over night, it also takes a long time to build up. It is possible it has reached new heights but I assure you (and take that how you will) that he started losing respect a long time ago.

Same subject, slightly different tack, the fact that CJ (and RM) felt the need to speak out as they did, in itself tells you something is very wrong. There should be no need for this public blood letting if all was sound. So your honour, I put it to you, based on the evidence available, the Defendant is guilty of all charges.

Loved the fact that CJ made mention of Mindset, but then I would wouldn''t I.

[Scot-e-dog 34]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"]I thought CamJam was almost in tears during that interview, an indication of how much he cares and his frustration at certain players. I have always thought the main problem has been with the players rather than the manager because they can turn in a magnificent performance when they want to. Even so, I accept it is up to the manager to get the best from his players.

So now that promotion has gone I would give AN the chance to play the youngsters and those who will be here next season, dropping the deadwood and the trouble makers.

This should have been sorted out last season. We never should have gone into this year with so many players not wanting to be here or not good enough to play. For that, the manager and the Board are to blame for not recognising and tackling the problem.

If Niall is allowed to play the youngsters and if we get a positive response from them, even if we don''t get the results, then I would give the manager until the end of the season to prove that it was the dropped players causing the problems.

If we carry on with our collective head in the sand with the same failed players and in denial of the problem then we need an immediate clearout of manager, coaches and board of directors.[/quote]

I like this idea. My on proviso being that we need some very clear success criteria. No idea what they may be as there are so many variables, but unless you have something, this is a recipe for bimbling along.

[Highland Canary 76]

The owners seem to want a manager for a decade. With our current rate of decline that makes a derby with Kings Lynn much more likely than one with 1p5wich in a few years time.

[Salford 0]

Simply put, to be 19 points of automatics and 9 points off the top 6 at the beginning of March is not a situation anyone would have taken (if offered) at the beginning of the season. To the "in-ers": how much further off the automatics/playoffs would we need to be in order for you to be an "out-er"?!

[nutty nigel 7,534]

But who comes in is totally relevant to whether I want Neil to stay or go. The exact same things were said all those years ago. My favourite ever comment was "anybody would be better than Worthy". As it turned out the next two were worse. This time a block of lard would be better than Neil. I''m not sure Grant and Roeder were even better than blocks of lard.

[king canary 7,606]

I''m always amazed by however negative I might be feeling about the situation at the club, I can rely on highland to say something totally ridiculous.

[hogesar 9,671]

Who comes in is certainly relevant Nutty but unfortunately, or maybe actually fortunately, the fans don''t make that decision. The board do. Fans can force a change but can''t force who the change is. It''s hardly the fans fault that the board got the appointments wrong after Worthy left.

What we must do is evaluate what Neil brings to the table and what (hopefully) our list of potential replacements bring to the table. This isn''t an exact science but I think one of the clearest attributes is we need someone who can man manage and regroup the squad. That''s clear from Jerome''s interview. Can we find someone who can man manage and still offers at least the equivalent to what AN does in other areas? You''d like to think so.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Exactly Hoggy. And the fans don''t make the decision sack a manager either. Probably fortunately for the same reasons.

The point about poor replacements isn''t exclusive to our board either.