Football matches an easy target?

[Gainer the Gopher 0]

Someone here wrote that radical Christians are all about love. David Koresh at Waco, the OKC bombing, and Jonestown, Guyana all suggest otherwise.

Others suggest it''s too risky for innocent moderates to speak out, but in the same breath say the innocents vastly outnumber the fanatics. There is a disconnect in the logic there. Community leaders should LEAD by publicly aggressively voicing disdain for the terrorists, and encourage their communities to out those weasels with extreme prejudice. When those roaches can''t feel

secure in their own neighborhoods, they will quit or run. You can''t run forever. They will be isolated and ultimately fade into oblivion.

Saying things like "these people can''t be reasoned with" is kind of hypocritical as I''m sure the terrorists feel the same way about us. The problem is neither side wants what the other has to offer. We COULD negotiate, but obviously have no interest in adopting preEnlightenment philosophies.

One commenter made it an environmental issue related to dependence on oil. That made me laugh.

Why does a Paris attack get more coverage than one in the Middle East? Is that really a topic of debate? Paris is part of the West. An attack there is an attack on Sydney, Manchester, Toronto, Cape Town, or Nashville. Paris is our brother, not some loopy 3rd cousin of a kid you barely knew in elementary school. Of course it gets more coverage.

Morty has some good ideas and opinions on this. So does Bor. Did I just say that out loud.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="Bor"][quote user="morty"]Sorry am late to the party, been travelling all day, but I will pick up on this political correctness thing.Far too often anyone who expresses concern at things we are discussing is branded a hater and a racist.Folks need to realise that there is a common sense middle ground, not driven by hate, but fear for our loved ones safety, and you shouldn''t mix up concerned citizens with frothing Britain First idiots.[/quote]

Yes, I agree entirely.

That said - for the record, and in my opinion - anyone who look at the Paris attacks says "the politically correct now have blood on their hands" is a frothing Britain First idiot.

[/quote]So because I''ve been saying since this crisis started that Europe shouldn''t open it''s borders and allow 100''s of thousands of people arrive, most of which we know nothing about, what background they have come from, or what their intentions are etc, and I firmly believe that British mosques need regulating with hate preachers being kicked out of the country, and lo and behold 6 home grown terrorists and 2 "refugees" have now gone and killed hundreds of people in Paris, that makes me a far right activist? Or perhaps I was just right all along and the people who allowed this to happen (the politically correct), now need to stand up in front of the family and friends of the poor souls that were murdered in Paris and explain themselves.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

For those who have been suffering from a Daily Mail news blackout here''s the statement from the leader of the Muslim Council of Great Britain made yesterday : -

 

“The attacks once again in Paris are horrific and abhorrent, and we condemn this violence in the strongest possible terms. My thoughts and prayers for the families of those killed and injured and for the people of France, our neighbours. This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves ‘Islamic State’. There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.”

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Fair play, and things like this will go a long way to defeating radical Islam.

A

year or so ago, thousands of muslims took to the streets in the UK to

protest against their prophet being drawn, why have we never seen a

protest against the horrendous terror acts ISIS commit across the world

and on our land?

If British muslims protested against

this terror attack in Paris (they protest against everything else) then

it would build massive bridges between the British people and the muslim

communities and the British people would march alongside them in unity,

what a message that would send out.

Unfortunately, it won''t happen though.

[Herman 9,842]

So trying to help out your fellow man in their time of crisis is politically correct? Sounds rather Christian to me.

[T 190]

If we take your logic then because there was a prevalence for paedophilia amongst a certain generation and it was not then widely publicly condemned then we should think that those of that generation on here are paedophiles. So either your argument it totally twisted or are you suggesting your generation all had a serious problem?

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="Herman "]So trying to help out your fellow man in their time of crisis is politically correct? Sounds rather Christian to me.[/quote]Helping out our fellow man is the right thing to do, but it has to be done properly, and not at the detriment of our safety.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="T"]If we take your logic then because there was a prevalence for paedophilia amongst a certain generation and it was not then widely publicly condemned then we should think that those of that generation on here are paedophiles. So either your argument it totally twisted or are you suggesting your generation all had a serious problem?[/quote]It wasn''t publically known until the last few years in which there has been large public condemnation. Muslim communities protest about everything and anything except terror attacks done in their name. Or are we going to pretend that''s not the truth as well?

[Prince of Darkness 0]

[quote user="Prince of Darkness "]I am a big fan of carpet bombing of Aleppo.

Isisl exist because of the support and the patronage of the local populous[/quote]

It is good to hear the French Govt are listening to my views on here but I do believe the carpet bombed the wrong target

[Crabbycanary3 994]

The bombings are made on specific targets, and done to precision. If ISIS have innocent civilians in there, then I would wager that they will not be playing the ''stop the bombings because innocent people are being killed here'' card.

It''s (Bombings) not random

[morty 0]

[quote user="ellis206"][quote user="Bor"][quote user="morty"]Sorry am late to the party, been travelling all day, but I will pick up on this political correctness thing.Far too often anyone who expresses concern at things we are discussing is branded a hater and a racist.Folks need to realise that there is a common sense middle ground, not driven by hate, but fear for our loved ones safety, and you shouldn''t mix up concerned citizens with frothing Britain First idiots.[/quote]

Yes, I agree entirely.

That said - for the record, and in my opinion - anyone who look at the Paris attacks says "the politically correct now have blood on their hands" is a frothing Britain First idiot.

[/quote]So because I''ve been saying since this crisis started that Europe shouldn''t open it''s borders and allow 100''s of thousands of people arrive, most of which we know nothing about, what background they have come from, or what their intentions are etc, and I firmly believe that British mosques need regulating with hate preachers being kicked out of the country, and lo and behold 6 home grown terrorists and 2 "refugees" have now gone and killed hundreds of people in Paris, that makes me a far right activist? Or perhaps I was just right all along and the people who allowed this to happen (the politically correct), now need to stand up in front of the family and friends of the poor souls that were murdered in Paris and explain themselves. [/quote]If you are using what happened in Paris as some kind of right wing "I told you so" then shame on you.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="ellis206"][quote user="T"]If we take your logic then because there was a prevalence for paedophilia amongst a certain generation and it was not then widely publicly condemned then we should think that those of that generation on here are paedophiles. So either your argument it totally twisted or are you suggesting your generation all had a serious problem?[/quote]It wasn''t publically known until the last few years in which there has been large public condemnation. Muslim communities protest about everything and anything except terror attacks done in their name. Or are we going to pretend that''s not the truth as well? [/quote]

"Muslim communities", really?

You''re not doing youself any favours by confusing some extremists with whole communities.

[T 190]

It wasn''t known because too many people were looking the other way and were complicit. Perhaps you would like to organise a protest against the sexist, racist, homophobic views of a generation? In reality there is a range of views. Most are just people like you ard me. That someone thinks it is wrong to socialise with the nicest people that you could ever wish to meet just because of their religion is concerning because such attitudes will only increase the problem.

[FenwayFrank 2,471]

We need this bloke

http://www.polarimagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Kenny.jpg

[morty 0]

We have enjoyed open borders within Europe for many years without it being a security issue, theres no "I told you so" to be had here. I lived in Germany in the 80''s when the IRA were actively hunting servicemen and their families, there were closed borders then.We were completely correct in helping the Syrian refugees, and kind of notion that we shouldn''t have helped them because of what happened in Paris is utter, utter nonsense. They are fellow human beings, and seeing them as anything less or different is exactly what terrorists want us to do. Showing them compassion is 100% the right thing to do.What happened in Paris would have happened regardless.

[Herman 9,842]

Excellent Morty.

[ricardo 7,416]

Equating IS IS. With the refugee problem is merely obfuscation. Quite plainly the vast majority are fleeing the civil wars in the middle east. However it would be naive of us to assume that the fundamentalists are not using this situation to infiltrate the Democratic countries of Europe. In fact they have been quite vocal in claiming this as one of their aims. Ignoring this fact helps neither us nor the refugees.

[Gainer the Gopher 0]

Why are they claiming that, ricardo? They have no love for them.

[Van wink 2,994]

ISIS announced some time ago that they were infiltrating the stream of refugees with their own terrorists.

I don''t think this will come as a surprise to anyone.

The surprise ( or maybe not) is that the authorities seemed to ignore this threat.

It''s a question of the need for a humanitarian response v the potential risk.

A political decison with potentially huge ramifications for ALL those concerned.

[mrs miggins 0]

ellis206 wrote the following post at 16/11/2015 6:43 AM:If British muslims protested against this terror attack in Paris (they protest against everything else) then it would build massive bridges between the British people and the muslim communities and the British people would march alongside them in unity, what a message that would send out.

-------------------------------

So you want the muslims to protest for/against what? Against ISIS?

Why would anyone protest against ISIS, we all know they are bad. Are you going to take to the streets and shout about how bad they are?

You aren''t suggesting that by muslims protesting it would just clarify that not all of them are barbaric religious fanatics that would kill their own son if they were an apostate are you?

[hogesar 9,776]

Probably a time people on both sides of the political spectrum got of their retrospective high horses and come to the realisation that no matter if we did or did not allow refugees into our country, innocent people will die regardless when we''re dealing with this sub-human scum.

[Van wink 2,994]

mrs miggins wrote the following post at 16/11/2015 12:55 PM:

ellis206 wrote the following post at 16/11/2015 6:43 AM:If British muslims protested against this terror attack in Paris (they protest against everything else) then it would build massive bridges between the British people and the muslim communities and the British people would march alongside them in unity, what a message that would send out.

-------------------------------

So you want the muslims to protest for/against what? Against ISIS?

Why would anyone protest against ISIS, we all know they are bad. Are you going to take to the streets and shout about how bad they are?

You aren''t suggesting that by muslims protesting it would just clarify that not all of them are barbaric religious fanatics that would kill their own son if they were an apostate are you?

I think what Ellis is expressing it that there could be a great bringing together of Muslim and non Muslim communities and individuals by some sort of public event to protest a common enemy. Anything that shows a grass roots solidarity by all the people of our country would help reduce the level of suspicion and fear that both communities feel atm.

[mrs miggins 0]

I think he was suggesting that muslims firstly rally against ISIS in protest and then everyone else would join them.

[hogesar 9,776]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]I think he was suggesting that muslims firstly rally against ISIS in protest and then everyone else would join them.[/quote]

They could do, maybe even should do. In the same way that we''ve protested against the likes of the BNP and Britain First etc.

[mrs miggins 0]

(''everyone else'' being british citizens and ''them'' being british muslims)

[mrs miggins 0]

''Grass roots solidarity'' as Vankwink says is great, but whenever muslims have taken to the streets (or just protest in general) to protest, the coverage doesn''t get shown and we never hear about it. There have been quite a few protests on the street and online such as ''Muslims Against ISIS'' but don''t get the coverage.

Also there is the clear point of why should they alone protest against ISIS; it''s clear they don''t have the same outlook as ISIS so if they did protest, it would not be against the terrorist group, but simply a tool for proof that they aren''t ISIS in the eyes of their country they are living in e.g. France or Britain.

''Grass roots solidarity'' is a good idea, but it needs to be altogether; Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics etc standing together.

[Indy 3,323]

Isn''t that Society Miggins? Tolerance, understanding and accepting multicultural differences in the umbrella of UK way of life, after all immigrants want to come here it''s to accept our way of life, not to change it to the way they have come from? Half family moved here from Eastern Europe to live the UK way.

[mrs miggins 0]

Indeed Indy, this is an issue of ideology. We all in the west need to stand against this ideology and speak up against it. This is not the ideology of religion I''m talking about, but the ideology of jihad extremism.

I feel we have far to many sympathisers and apologists for terrorists, especially in the USA and England and especially on the left; the Charlie Hebdo incident being a prime example. People died over cartoons.

(on a more general note)

On the subject of society, although it wasn''t part of your point Indy, I would just like to say that although it is not immigrants intention to change our way of life, the fact is that it does (in my opinion for the better, but some will disagree with that). As a society we''ve become much more tolerant than say 30 years ago.

[ron obvious 1,517]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

Incredibly scary & disturbing. Particularly bits like this:

"A July 2014 ICM poll suggested that more than one in four French youth between the ages of 18 and 24 have a favourable or very favourable opinion of Isis"

We, as a civilisation, need to apply a great deal more thought to this than we have been doing.

[ellis206 0]

However you look at it, a large number of muslims haven''t intergrated in to our society and want to change the way we live, our freedom of speech and want us to adopt Sharia Law, with some areas already being governed by Sharia Law. For example, 08/02/15, thousands of British Muslims protested outside of Downing Street over the publication of the Prophet Muhammed in the Charlie Hebdo magazine, a magazine which has also taken the mick out of every religion going. Watch this protest in Luton in which hundreds to thousands are protesting chanting "British Police burn in hell" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgKMI1wV0psHundreds of Muslims protesting trying to get alcohol banned in the UK, led by the hate preacher Anjem Choudharyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIQWz_UKiM

Video of Muslim gangs walking round London threatning people who were drinking alcohol, who were homosexual or who were going to certain areas of the city which were Muslim only  http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3555/sharia-law-londonNow I appreciate these are a small minority of idiotic people who do want to change the way we live and our values, but there has been countless other protests over ridiculous things. I know of one small anti ISIS march from British muslims and fair play to them. This is a survey carried out within British Mosques...http://pamelageller.com/2015/07/british-mosques-and-imams-refuse-to-condemn-the-islamic-state-isis.html/49% endorse hate preachers, 30% approved of the Charlie Hebdo executions, 40% of UK Muslims want Sharia law implemented and 20% had sympathy for the suicide bombers. No doubt you''ll just rubbish it as codswallop or whatever but there is a serious issue in the UK with Islam, Bradford, Luton, Birmingham etc all have large areas where a non-muslim just isn''t welcome and it''s dangerous to visit, saw a news article recently in Luton where elderly white folk and jamaican folk were being driven out of their homes by young muslim gangs with bricks being thrown through their windows on a regular basis. British mosques need to be governed properly because they can''t do it themselves, to date, no potential terrorist has been put forward by a British mosque. As I''ve said numerous times, the vast majority of muslims are good people who enjoy the british way of life and enjoy the freedom of speech that they now have, for anybody to judge a muslim on these isis nutters is just plain wrong, but at the same time it''s just plain wrong to assume all muslims are british loving peaceful people. In terms of immigration, we are absolutely right to take the people who are fleeing from war zones and who''s lives are at risk, but they still need to go through a screening process and not placed somewhere like Bradford (which the first batch have been) because that''s hardly intergration is it. Also need to remember that 4 in 5 "refugees" aren''t even from Syria, a large number have come from Albania which is a country at peace and a lot of African countries as well, these people have passed through dozens of peaceful countries to get to the wealthier countries in the north, such as the UK, France and Germany, so as I''ve said hundreds of times, they are economic migrants. Do some research in the destruction that has been caused in small towns in Germany, local citizens have been murdered and raped by these people, which is why I was saying it is insane to have an open door policy and anybody with half a brain would agree.  

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="ellis206"]anybody with half a brain would agree. [/quote]

You''ve summarised it for me, thank you.