So how much has Hughton got to spend?

[Bws Cat 0]

Silly season has begun, with names such as Welbeck and Hernandez being thrown around the forum I thought maybe this thread could be a safe haven for those with common sense.

Now, assuming that (apparently) snoddy cost £3M and this was our transfer record, how are we going to buy somebody like Graham?

Graham cost £3.5M for Swansea, so with him only getting better since they bought him, surely the price will be a bit too much for us?

I hope somebody can prove me wrong, I would love to see Graham here and to know the club have got some money to spend.

[Stig 0]

Perhaps we have a secret vault of gold locked up and guarded by a yellow and green Goblin named Holt.

Let me put it another way, we better hope we have a vault like that because I doubt we have enough to cover a signing outside of league 1

[NCFC4LIFE 0]

Well im sure there will be some exits this January. DM has already stated, any money on transfers goes straight back into the kitty.

I think C.Martin 500k, D.Fox 1m and potentially Ward 500k will be leaving. With that the potential of S.Morison leaving for between 2-3 million gives the kitty a boost of 4-5 million.

Plus im sure there was a little left over form the summer. I think he is surplus in ML opinion therefore could get him on the cheap as contract is near the end. 4.5 - 5.0 million. wages will be 20-25 k a week.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Last season we spent about £14m. It was reported that our budgert this season exceeds this. To date according to the club we have spent £9m prior to January. This indicates a minimum of £5 m and possibly well in excess of this. Dont forget we are clear of debt after this season and if we stay up there is an additional £20m TV money

[Swollen ankles 0]

We have 10 mil to spend now, more if we sell

[PurpleCanary 6,378]

You would need to be inside the boardroom or to have passed exams in a whole string of ologies to know what Hughton has to spend. But there are some obvious known factors, some of which are contradictory.

1) Bowkett and McNally have been very clear about what they see as the absolute necessity of staying up this season. If there is money there to spend on available targets it will get spent.

2) Unless Hughton is an idiot, and he shows no signs of so being, he will have kept some money in reserve from the summer. That is what Lambert did and - going back - it is what we very sensibly did in the 2004-05 season.

3) Last season - presumably to provide as much money as possible for players to try to stay up - we only paid off a third of the external debt, leaving the bulk (around £10m or so) to be paid this season. That expensive chicken has come home to roost.

4) We are forecast by the directors to run out of cash this summer. A forecast presumably made taking into account a certain amount of transfer-window spending. Has the recent slump prompted Hughton, Oliver Twist-like, to ask for more? If so, are we in a position to give cough up?

5) None of our currently loaned-out players would bring in serious money, even assuming there were buyers. But players will have to be shipped out, because of wages and/or squad places, to allow in new blood. As sellers we will be in a buyer''s market.

6) Fees at this time of year are inflated (as buyers we will be in a seller''s market) but for clubs like us it is wages as much as anything that are the limiting factor. We might be able to afford £xm in a fee but not the salary demanded.

7) It is possible (only possible) Smith and Jones and/or Foulger might reach into their piggy banks, with "loans" or a share purchase, but this is hardly going to be disclosed until after the event.

8) I count 97 distinct similarities between this season and 1994-95. Other posters may have noticed more.

[York Canary 29]

I''ve been thinking about £5m too, BUT this could be topped up with sales from any or all of Elliott Ward, Simon Lappin, Ayala, Fox, Chris Martin and James Vaughan. I''m not saying they''ll all be sold or allowed to leave, but I''m sure that bids from other clubs would tempt CH to cash in. Then there''s Tierney, Barnett, Surman, Moro and Simeon who could be sold (though replacements would be needed) and also Adeyemi and Korey if they don''t look promising enough to CH.

 

Either way, I''m sure that our budget can be topped up nicely and some wages can be freed up. I know it''s highly unlikely, but there''s also the small chance that the board may see us as relatively safe and give a little extra if CH really wants someone

[NCFC4LIFE 0]

oh god, there are similarities in a lot of seasons from years gone by... the fact that we lost our number one goal keeper in 94/95 season doesn''t mean we are going to get relegated.

there are many difference to 94/95 season and now, mainly our club is run by one of the best CEO''s in the business. Mike Walker went in 94/95 replaced by a young John Deehan, Lambert went and was replaced CH who has had plenty more experience.

Lets concentrate on the important issues and that is if we can afford a player like Danny Graham. IMO i think it will be very doable. Not only doable but i think a great bit of business for our club.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]You would need to be inside the boardroom or to have passed exams in a whole string of ologies to know what Hughton has to spend. But there are some obvious known factors, some of which are contradictory.

1) Bowkett and McNally have been very clear about what they see as the absolute necessity of staying up this season. If there is money there to spend on available targets it will get spent.

2) Unless Hughton is an idiot, and he shows no signs of so being, he will have kept some money in reserve from the summer. That is what Lambert did and - going back - it is what we very sensibly did in the 2004-05 season.

3) Last season - presumably to provide as much money as possible for players to try to stay up - we only paid off a third of the external debt, leaving the bulk (around £10m or so) to be paid this season. That expensive chicken has come home to roost.

4) We are forecast by the directors to run out of cash this summer. A forecast presumably made taking into account a certain amount of transfer-window spending. Has the recent slump prompted Hughton, Oliver Twist-like, to ask for more? If so, are we in a position to give cough up?

5) None of our currently loaned-out players would bring in serious money, even assuming there were buyers. But players will have to be shipped out, because of wages and/or squad places, to allow in new blood. As sellers we will be in a buyer''s market.

6) Fees at this time of year are inflated (as buyers we will be in a seller''s market) but for clubs like us it is wages as much as anything that are the limiting factor. We might be able to afford £xm in a fee but not the salary demanded.

7) It is possible (only possible) Smith and Jones and/or Foulger might reach into their piggy banks, with "loans" or a share purchase, but this is hardly going to be disclosed until after the event.

8) I count 97 distinct similarities between this season and 1994-95. Other posters may have noticed more.

[/quote]

 

9) All monies made in the recent cup run certainly weren''t budgeted for at the beginning of the season so will be available to the manager.

 

9a) We also got to the quarter final of the league cup in 94/95 and the resulting income probably meant we didn''t have to sell Daryl Sutch.

 

 

[ncfcstar 342]

I thought £10m was mentioned at the AGM or am I making that up?

[Rivvo 265]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]You would need to be inside the boardroom or to have passed exams in a whole string of ologies to know what Hughton has to spend. But there are some obvious known factors, some of which are contradictory.

1) Bowkett and McNally have been very clear about what they see as the absolute necessity of staying up this season. If there is money there to spend on available targets it will get spent.

2) Unless Hughton is an idiot, and he shows no signs of so being, he will have kept some money in reserve from the summer. That is what Lambert did and - going back - it is what we very sensibly did in the 2004-05 season.

3) Last season - presumably to provide as much money as possible for players to try to stay up - we only paid off a third of the external debt, leaving the bulk (around £10m or so) to be paid this season. That expensive chicken has come home to roost.

4) We are forecast by the directors to run out of cash this summer. A forecast presumably made taking into account a certain amount of transfer-window spending. Has the recent slump prompted Hughton, Oliver Twist-like, to ask for more? If so, are we in a position to give cough up?

5) None of our currently loaned-out players would bring in serious money, even assuming there were buyers. But players will have to be shipped out, because of wages and/or squad places, to allow in new blood. As sellers we will be in a buyer''s market.

6) Fees at this time of year are inflated (as buyers we will be in a seller''s market) but for clubs like us it is wages as much as anything that are the limiting factor. We might be able to afford £xm in a fee but not the salary demanded.

7) It is possible (only possible) Smith and Jones and/or Foulger might reach into their piggy banks, with "loans" or a share purchase, but this is hardly going to be disclosed until after the event.

8) I count 97 distinct similarities between this season and 1994-95. Other posters may have noticed more.

[/quote]

Surely PC points 5 & 6 are contradictory, unless you''re saying that no one will want to buy our players? I would argue that we will only be able to buy players who are surplus to requirements of their club as other clubs will only be able to buy players that are surplus to ours. Obviously that would also include players who want to leave their respective clubs.

[Evesham Canary 0]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Last season we spent about £14m. It was reported that our budgert this season exceeds this. To date according to the club we have spent £9m prior to January. This indicates a minimum of £5 m and possibly well in excess of this. Dont forget we are clear of debt after this season and if we stay up there is an additional £20m TV money[/quote]

£5M of last years budget being spent in the Jan window with the additions of Bennett & Howson.

I can see us spending at least that & possibly a bit more. As for out goings - I can''t see the likes of Lappin or Ward raising much money, Ward is out of contract in the summer and Lappin has been no more than a squad player for the last 2 years (a maximum of £500K for the pair. Chris Martin might just about raise £500K but bearing in mind he has only had one prolific season (that was in L1) then we might be looking at a figure in the region of £300K with a sell on. The likes of Fox or Jackson might generate a bit more (iro £750K) and you would hope we would get back our investment on the likes of Vaughan or Morison.

[NCFC4LIFE 0]

Yorkshire Canary agree with you on Ward, Lappin and to a certain extent C.Martin but believe we could easily get 1-1.5 million for Fox, he has Prem experience and was part of the team that secured automatic promotion as was Jackson.

In fact I am a little sad that names like Fox and Jackson are being banded about for transfers but if these sales are to benefit the club by bringing in a names like D.Graham, Kayal and Garrido then so be it.

I would much prefer to see Morison and Vaughan used as transfers to recuperate some extra money.

[NCFC4LIFE 0]

[quote user="NCFC4LIFE"]Yorkshire Canary agree with you on Ward, Lappin and to a certain extent C.Martin but believe we could easily get 1-1.5 million for Fox, he has Prem experience and was part of the team that secured automatic promotion as was Jackson.

In fact I am a little sad that names like Fox and Jackson are being banded about for transfers but if these sales are to benefit the club by bringing in a names like D.Graham, Kayal and Garrido then so be it.

I would much prefer to see Morison and Vaughan used as transfers to recuperate some extra money.[/quote]

sorry Evesham Canary

[Highland Canary 78]

Probably not enough and certainly not enough as our fellow relegation mini-league members. Thus, it is likely that we will lose ground at least in relative terms with these teams. It could therefore be argued that this is a similarity with 1994/95 where we lost ground through the selling of key players.

I agree with Purple that financial statements point to a funding gap after the end of the financial year so without further investment the club''s hands are tied (but presumably the funding is after allowing for the budgeted spend in January).

Fundamentally, this discussion points to ''mutuality'' as described by McNally is incompatible with membership of the PL. I think QPR will survive this season and then will go onto prosper. Teams that come into the PL like Cardiff, Leicester and Leeds will replace teams like ourselves unless we also have a change to owners with very deep pockets.

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

I''ve read on various occasions that our record transfer is Bassong for £5.5m?!

I think we have £5m.

Last Jan we spent circa £5m on Howson and R.Bennett?

[Olly 0]

I think we would have roughly what we had to spend last January, maybe a million or so more depending on how much we got from the cup run!

I can see maybe a Graham coming in, but I doubt the likes of Kayal and Hooper will. (Celtic don''t have any reason to be selling there players, and would they really want to leave whilst on the cusp of a Champions League tie with Juventus). Those guys would be players I would expect to move in the summer not January really.

With Hughton''s track record (his summer signings, and from his time at Newcastle) I have full confidence in his choices. Hopefully he can find the Alex Tettey of the striking world in Europe!!!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Probably not enough and certainly not enough as our fellow relegation mini-league members. Thus, it is likely that we will lose ground at least in relative terms with these teams. It could therefore be argued that this is a similarity with 1994/95 where we lost ground through the selling of key players. I agree with Purple that financial statements point to a funding gap after the end of the financial year so without further investment the club''s hands are tied (but presumably the funding is after allowing for the budgeted spend in January). Fundamentally, this discussion points to ''mutuality'' as described by McNally is incompatible with membership of the PL. I think QPR will survive this season and then will go onto prosper. Teams that come into the PL like Cardiff, Leicester and Leeds will replace teams like ourselves unless we also have a change to owners with very deep pockets.[/quote]

 

[quote user="Highland Canary"]

QPR did look poor. With the influx of players to that club I suspect it will take a few games for them to gel. But with Hughes at the helm for the whole season and with the quality in their team QPR will finish in a comfortable mid-table slot.

City on the other hand look much improved over the Fulham debacle. However, we still didn''t win the match. Hopefully we''ll see two up front regularly from now. In my opinion, without a quality, quick striker to support Holt we''re in for a long, difficult season. We looked better with Simeon but he also missed good chances which a better striker might - should - convert. Two points lost. And yes, it does feel like 2004 to me.

[/quote]

 

2004/5 or 1994/5? It''s make yer mind up time Highland....

 

 

[PurpleCanary 6,378]

[quote user="Rivvo"]

 

Surely PC points 5 & 6 are contradictory, unless you''re saying that no one will want to buy our players? I would argue that we will only be able to buy players who are surplus to requirements of their club as other clubs will only be able to buy players that are surplus to ours. Obviously that would also include players who want to leave their respective clubs.[/quote]

 

We are a PL club with certain obvious needs. Strikers for a start. That is like putting up a sign that says "Fleece me". The prices we get quoted will reflect that. Meanwhile, any clubs we offer players to, because we want shot of them, will be able to drive down the price. Our need to get rid of the player will mitigate against us getting fair price. It is not that some clubs might not want to buy our players, but that they will have the stronger negotiating hand.

[York Canary 29]

[quote user="Evesham Canary"]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Last season we spent about £14m. It was reported that our budgert this season exceeds this. To date according to the club we have spent £9m prior to January. This indicates a minimum of £5 m and possibly well in excess of this. Dont forget we are clear of debt after this season and if we stay up there is an additional £20m TV money[/quote]

£5M of last years budget being spent in the Jan window with the additions of Bennett & Howson.

I can see us spending at least that & possibly a bit more. As for out goings - I can''t see the likes of Lappin or Ward raising much money, Ward is out of contract in the summer and Lappin has been no more than a squad player for the last 2 years (a maximum of £500K for the pair. Chris Martin might just about raise £500K but bearing in mind he has only had one prolific season (that was in L1) then we might be looking at a figure in the region of £300K with a sell on. The likes of Fox or Jackson might generate a bit more (iro £750K) and you would hope we would get back our investment on the likes of Vaughan or Morison.

[/quote]

You''d assume Lappin, Ward and Martin would be off. Up to £1m for the three players together and that''s 3 wages off the books, which is massive for us. Fox and Vaughan and you''re looking at £1.5-2m? Potentially up to £3m extra and 5 wages off the books takes us to £8m assuming we have around £5m to start with. Add Jackson another £1m maybe (proven at level below and only 25 I think). Then there''s Moro another £2-3m. Wonder if Ayala figures at all either.

[York Canary 29]

No way Bassong cost £5.5m! 5th choice CB or something at Spurs. Loaned to Wolves the year before. Nah

[Olly 0]

McNally has said numerous times on twitter that the record transfer wasn''t broken in the summer, so no way Bassong cost £5.5m!

[spencer 1970 214]

Agreed, McNasty stated our record signing is still Ashton. That added up to be £4.25m with add ons.

[York Canary 29]

If we do get Graham we''ll be beating that record for sure

[Branston Pickle 4,145]

I posted this the other day, but it is relevant here...

I read McNally''s article in the Man C programme (I am a bit mad, I still buy and actually read them!) - he said "...a lot of work has gone on behind the scenes preparing for the window, and our aim is to strengthen the squad every window. However, it is a notoriously difficult time, and expensive, to trade in January and it is wise to do the bulk of any trading in the summer, and so please do not expect several new signings." He goes on to say we do not need to sell any player.

It does seem likely that we will only get 1-2 guys in, so perhaps dont quite have the ££ that some think. IMO that is probably about right, as things stand we don''t need to do too much business in the inflated market (things may change if one of our ain guys gets a longer term injury) but I would like our attacking options enhanced.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

The Times estimated our pot at £10 million which seems possible but also said that purchases would be few so as not to disrupt the team spirit.

 

Both seem about right to me.  I think McNally is building up a cash reserve for players.  We know everything else is put on hold for the player budget.

 

But, we only need to be 17th and it''s job done for this season.  I suspect that a couple of players will be brought in to help achieve that and to try to get some extra points for higher placing and bonus payments.  The bigger mon ey and the bigger business will be in the summer.

[lake district canary 4,825]

At the end of the day its not how much we have to spend that matters.    The important factor is whether a player that comes in improves on what we''ve already got.     Yes, we could sell three or four players, that would help the wages side of things and give us a little more in the kitty, but you could blow all the transfer money and wages on one or two players that may not be any better than what we''ve got - don''t forget, new players have to bed in - and then you will be in a worse situation - stuck with two players that are on long contracts who offer nothing extra.   Save the money to buy in the Summer. 

If anything,  a loan or two may be enough to cover what we need this season - saving money for more influential players that may be available in the Summer.    No point in overspending at this stage if its not necessary -  the January window is best left to clubs who have more money than sense (eg. qpr).   A couple of quality loans would give us that little bit extra without breaking the bank.  

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

[quote user="ncfcstar"]I thought £10m was mentioned at the AGM or am I making that up?[/quote]

 

This was the amount mentioned in the Times on Monday when it gave a breakdown of all Premier Clubs''s likely targets and spendability.

 

I was surprised.

[ZLF 335]

I had in mind that it was in the £5-7m mind but through no inside knowledge.

 

I would re-iterate was others have said - its not about how much we spend but about the quality of capture.    We did not spend too much during the summer but our squad improved in comparison to others (eg QPRs went downhill despite spending much more).   I see no reason to think we cant or wont do the same this Jan - I would be astounded if we brought no one in this Jan given the noises from the club so far.

[Salopian 1]

This is the last chance to buy in order to preserve Premiership status. We all know this, the Board included. The question is how far the recent disappointing results and injuries may have concentrated the minds of the Board.

 

1) We have to reduce the wage bills by selling players who are extremely unlikely to be needed in the future. Chiefly here are those who played in the Premiership with us, but have now been superseded - Ward, Ayala, Martin, Fox, Korey, Tierney, Lappin, and one or two who may be - Butterfield, Vaughan. How much could we raise from all these? I suspect very little in most cases, - generally a few hundred thousand. I think that we might struggle to make £2m altogether. Against this, are we likely to buy up contracts of those for whom we can find no takers even at very low prices?

2) How much is left in the kitty? This is the difficult one - in most signings last summer we had to guess the transfer fee, but the other fees for agents and players are even more difficult. I think that all included it could have been as much as £12m to £13m. What is left is anyone''s guess, but prudence suggests that some was left for January, say £4m.

3) Will the board dip into money intended to reduce the long term debt? Possibly, if they can be convinced that our status is under serious threat. There are signs that several of the teams towards the bottom of the table are looking to strengthen their squads. Does our Board gamble?

 

This is only of passing interest. In four weeks time there may be recriminations but the die will be cast. We shall never know what players we enquired about, or discussed with their clubs, but coudn''t afford or were outbid by other clubs.

 

On thing is clear, that if we fail to sign anyone of present significance, we shall be taking something of a gamble. We have already seen, principally in the injuries to Ruddy, Whittaker and Holt that, while we have nominally two players for each position, in more than one position the deputy is well short of the first choice.