back four not a problem says Grant

[ricky knight 0]

Just reading, Grant does not think our back four are a problem and our two centre backs have been brilliant. I will say no more, what do you guys think.

[Syteanric 1]

he''s right.. if we didnt lose the ball we wouldnt concede a goal would we? Team Effort.

jas :)

[ricky knight 0]

easy aint it, so we dont have to buy any back four players then, because as long as we dont lose the ball its sorted

[Dame to Blame 108]

I AGREE with Grant i have been saying this for ages our midfield just does not defend as a unit and leaves our defence exposed ( no closing down ,no picking runners up IE Jones second goal on tuesday ) but of course we will get the Doc slaggers on hear blaming him for every goal we let in.

[Canary02 0]

In the last game alone, he''s right. Backtrack to Luton and there''s a lot wrong.

In the summer we need a centre back and a goalkeeper minimum, and if he still doesn''t fancy Colin then he''ll need a right back too, because however much honest endeavour there is from Hughes he''s not good enough. The only ones settled with Grant and playing well are Drury and Shackell.

 

[lucky green trainers 0]

in the EDP article, Grant says city''s defending as a team is not upto scratch, rather than necessarily the city''s defensive back four.  He rightly says, that howard hardly got a sniff against shacks and the doc on tuesday night, which many punk un posters picked up on in threads after the game, and grant then went on to say shacks and doc had been brilliant.  in the light of other poster''s opinions and grants argument, i''m happy to concede that city''s overall defending had not been good enough.  when derby got in front, they harried us and timewasted tirelessly in equal measure!  i''m sure PG and the players will continue to work on their defensive game.  however, and nothing personal, but i''m still of the opinion that the doc/shacks partnership is not the defensive answer  for city to help gain promotion.  i''d like a younger version of dion in there - dominant in the air, but admittedly better on the floor than dion - to replace the doc.  i''m convinced that shacks has the talent, but not necessarily the consistency - this could come in time under grants and dions grooming.  are the doc/shacks as good as malky, flem, newsome, jackson, linnigan, watson, bruce in their prime??  can they get us up???  sorry, i think not. verdict - summer shopping list - new keeper, right back, 2 central defenders.   let go -  doc, colin and mlj.  

[ricky knight 0]

[quote user="barclayendboy"]I AGREE with Grant i have been saying this for ages our midfield just does not defend as a unit and leaves our defence exposed ( no closing down ,no picking runners up IE Jones second goal on tuesday ) but of course we will get the Doc slaggers on hear blaming him for every goal we let in.
[/quote]

Thats my point, not being a regular down carrow road no more because of my work, i read alot on here about Doc etc, our back four not being good enough, the need for new defenders and Grant comes out with this, just looking for views from the forum.

[Yellow Rages 0]

He is right in what he says that if you look at a number of goals conceeded recently, too many are scored from long range. This can only be because midfield players are not closing down.

If someone shoots from 30 yards, it can''t the defenders fault if the ball flies in the net.

Having said that, I don''t think our back line is great. The second Derby goal sums up how we loose shape and concentration too easily at the back. I think that Shacks and Doc are good enough at this level but they need to learn to focus for 90 minutes. Those mistakes cost us games as well.

[Salopian 1]

I have been saying for months that it is remarkable how many goals are scored against us by midfielders and defenders, - it could be half the goals we have conceded. Some were from slack marking at set pieces, especially corners. But generally the dfence has done a good job in bottling up opposing strikers. I was very impressed at Barnsley how often our central defenders got their heads to crosses despite being subject to tremendous phsyical pressure. I have to admit that the Doc worries me, with bear-hugs as he stand firm!I would agree that in terms of distribution of the ball, things could be better, but the three of them (Shax, Doc and Dion) have generally been dominant in the air and in blocking attempts on goal. By the same token the midfield has either been absent, trying to usher opponents or generally late in the tackle.I don''t think they have improverd much since last season, when opposing midfields walked through our midfield as if it did not exist. This gives our back four little chance, and it explains why for a few years we have conceded so many goals from distance - edge of the penalty area or even further away.I think that the manager is spot on. Until we can close down attacking players quickly, we shall continue to leak goals. Midfielders do have the role of supporting attackers, but they also have the role of blunting opposing attacks. Only Safri performs the second function with any consistency.

[AJ 1,359]

I agree with Grant, he is totally correct;

The two goals we conceeded against Derby were not directly our defence''s fault

first goal, Dixon Etuhu did just stand there, and never closed Jones down..... watch the reply, makes me wonder why he is on the pitch.second goal, no midfielders read the game and followed Jones into the box.

[Evil Monkey 52]

I''ll post this for the third time as I''m sick of typing it all out again and again... [:D]"

... it''s something that''s

been on my mind for at least a year - our midfield''s inability to

prevent the ball getting to the defence.I''m

a firm believer in "defending from the front", and I don''t think that

this necessarily takes away from the game of the flair players - look

at someone like Rooney who, if he loses the ball, is often seen

charging 50 yards to win it back again... exactly what at least one of

two strikers should be doing at all times.The midfield should

be closing down and challenging for every ball, loose or otherwise...

they should not be backing off or wandering around watching the play go

on around them (as Etuhu seems to do so often)... to go on an attack

you need to win the ball first, and that''s the job of the central

midfielders if the ball is in their area.  It seems to me that all too

often we allow the play to reach our defence and just hope they don''t

score so that we can get the ball back to mount an attack.  Etuhu

against Chelsea was a perfect example of what midfielders should be

doing, but it seems he can only do it when he can be bothered... which

isn''t often...We saw it in our promotion season - Holty and

Francis working tirelessly to win the ball in the middle of the park

and thus protecting our defence.If we can start to do this

consistently, we may suddenly realise that our defence isn''t that bad

after all, but is simply under undue pressure..."

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

I''ve also always been a believer that defence starts from the front/midfield.  The point is that you don''t need to have the best players or even be playing particularly well to win games at this level - a well organised side playing as a unit, with a decent keeper, will keep clean sheets quite readily.  That we''ve not had a clean sheet in 13 games - even including games v non league and League 1 sides - says it all, something just isn''t quite right.

Our promotion winning season we defended well as a unit, Holt mopping up and closing down in front of the back four - we let in just 37 goals so something was clearly going well, when we lost possession we would close down and win it back, when sides did get through Green was there to pull off saves.   I think, for the most part the current players are capable, we just don''t seem to have players consistently doing the closing down, harrying and tackling from midfield - when possession is lost it seems to take an age to get it back, and we promptly lose it again from loose passing - and the keeping has been a problem, Gally is just too prone to errors.  One thing we have also been missing is a big built lad, a la Malky (or Moore for Derby) who can just stop players. Of course you do also have to have a certain amount of luck, in terms of injuries, ricochets etc - something we''ve not had too much of this season.

 

[Alex Harvey-Jones 0]

I have argued a number of times on here that the problem is the midfield - success for the defence and attack all stems from the middle of the park. We give the ball away far too easily meaning wave after wave of attack on our goal. Now I don''t agree with Grant that the back four are brilliant but they''re not bad and certainly adequate for this league provided they get suitable assistance from the midfielders! However if they have no protection and have to defend time and time again, eventually they are going to ship a goal or more. Derby was a prime example - both goals stemmed from errors from midfield and a lack of protection!

[a1canary 0]

I''m sorry but i just don''t buy this and it really makes me despair of Grant because i agree with so much of what he says, including that we need to defend as a team and retain the ball better. BUT, the positional sense of our back four when Dion is not there goes out the window. It''s plain for all to see how much better organised the back line is when Dion is playing. The marking is better, the anticipation is better, the decision making is better. Just look at the comedy goals at Luton if you need proof. I don''t think either of them would have happened if Dion was in there. Yes, defend as a team, close down in midfield but any team still needs the back line to do its job when the ball is in and around our area. It''s almost as if Grant is saying we somehow don''t need defenders or to defend the box if the midfield do their job!

[ZLF 335]

For me the only time over the last 3 seasons that the defence has not been good enough is during the prem season,  when they were out of their depth.  I will sound like a broken record but the main reason for conceeding so many goals since relegation has been th every poor quality central midfield and the gaping whole that Hux leaves.

Having said that a midfield 4 of Croft/chadwick,  Fozzy/Etuhu, Safri and Lappin looks far more balanced and will hopefully develop into the defensive yet creative shield that we have needed for ages.

[allways travelling 0]

You only have to look at goals conceded this year last year simply not good enough bitlike the position you finish in the table its fact you are as good as where you finish.Docherty is simply not up to it at times he looks very slow like an old man dont think he reads the game that well either i think he is the only week link think the rest look ok.I think the money we paid for lappin is an absolute steal this lad is quality the best value for money signing we have made for sometime i love him left back or left side midfield he can do either and finally gives the midfield some balance.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]I''m sorry but i just don''t buy this and it really makes me despair of Grant because i agree with so much of what he says, including that we need to defend as a team and retain the ball better.
BUT, the positional sense of our back four when Dion is not there goes out the window. It''s plain for all to see how much better organised the back line is when Dion is playing. The marking is better, the anticipation is better, the decision making is better. Just look at the comedy goals at Luton if you need proof. I don''t think either of them would have happened if Dion was in there.
Yes, defend as a team, close down in midfield but any team still needs the back line to do its job when the ball is in and around our area. It''s almost as if Grant is saying we somehow don''t need defenders or to defend the box if the midfield do their job!
[/quote]

I agree A1... while it is true that you must defend from the front and as a team, it is also true that the foundations of any good team are built around a good goalkeeper and solid back four.  Ask all the good managers how they built a successful team and they will tell you that they started from the back.

We only have two players maximum (Shackell & Drury) that are good enough to play in a side challenging for a play-off place.  Dion is somebody that can be used sparingly but can not be relied upon because of his ageing legs (and we may need him to cover at the other end of the pitch).

If we are to challenge next year then we need to sign a Goalkeeper on a permanent deal, a centre back (maybe two), and cover at right back.... a defensive midfielder would be welcome too (getting rid of Safri and Hughes for me in the opposite direction).

[Regime Change 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

he''s right.. if we didnt lose the ball we wouldnt concede a goal would we? Team Effort.

jas :)

[/quote]

I agree with you Jas.

The dominance of Man Utd on the early 90''s was based  on the great distribution of Parker, Pallister, Bruce, and Irwin. In contrast Doh and Shackell hoof the ball anywhere, and, predominantly give the ball straight back to the opposition.

I''m not going to turn this into an anti-Doherty rant as I;m not convinved Shackell is any better.

[lucky green trainers 0]

goreham: radio norfolk. what do you do if you keep conceeding sloppy goals?grant: NCFC Manager.  get new players!

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Re: back four not a problem says Grant.

No, they''re just a liability........[:P]

[Erik the Viking 0]

Would some of you people agree with everything our beloved club say?!?. Grant is well and truly wrong on this one granted(excuse the pun) you defend as a team but totally agree with smudger only Drury/Shacks/Colin good enough to play in a side challenging at the right end of the table.FOURTEEN GAMES WITHOUT A CLEAN SHEET I REST MY CASE!

[Trevor Chilver 0]

 

Results tell the sorry story, and we have still not replaced Malky after nearly three years. That is the botom line, and if Grant cannot see that, he should consider his position, before the fans do!!

[Trevor Chilver 0]

Totally Agree. If he cannot see it, he must Go

[Evil Monkey 52]

Erm, TC, did you just reply to your own post...????

[shropshire-lad 0]

What sort of cloud cuckoo land is Peter living in? I note the goal this afternoon was scored from a Hughes clearance! Hughes and Docherty in defence appear to be totally incapable of clearing the ball to a City player. Its just an aimless boot that immediately put us back in trouble. I reckon that in all my years of watching the Canaries they must be two of the worst players I have ever seen in Norwich shirts. Until we get rid of these two and some of the other dross McVeigh, Ethuhu etc we will continue to struggle in a division we should dominate, the only saving grace is that Ips**t appear to be in the same quagmire as ourselves.

Delia, City fans don''t deserve the rubbish we are having to endure. Grant your pre and post match comments are an insult to the fans intelligence!

[bigbear 0]

For me, the number of times I look at our back 4 they seem to have had a good game.  But that seems to be just as individuals, the number of times they don''t seem to know where the other defenders are.  They seem to ball watch far too much, then the ball is past them with the striker and we need a last ditch tackle to stop a goal.  The ball shouldn''t get that far if they do their jobs properly as a unit.  Sometimes teams rip you apart, I don''t mind that but when watching from the stands you can see a move coming a mile off it makes me wonder where their thoughts are.  They seem to like the other person to take the responsibilty, and with that split second hesitation, the ball is past.  They need a leader at the back, with a strong, vociferous keeper letting them know exactly whats going on at all times.  They also back off far too much, yes it''s the midfielders fault as well, but there has been times this season when there has been 3 of our defenders all backing off from 1 attacker, surely at least 1 player should go in to try to make a tackle, if he goes past, there are 2 there to back him up. 

Drury should stay as left back.  Right back is a different story, I don''t think Colin did much wrong, and to be replaced by Hughes, clearly Grant doesn''t think too much of him or something has happened ''off field'' for him to be dropped.  If Colin isn''t going to play next year then I think we need a new right back.  In the centre, it is a tricky one.  Both players could be fine together with the right coaching and training in all aspects of the game, especially communication.  If not, then 1 of them should be dropped and replaced by someone who can take control (shackell seemed to like playing alongside Dublin, because Dublin led the defence and pretty much told him what to do).  The midfield is anyone''s guess.  Etuhu on his day is good enough, but hardly ever shows it so really he should go unless there is a vast improvement over the summer.  Fozzy, doesn''t look like the box to box player or the attacking midfielder people were hoping for.  He gets up there on occasions but to me, so far he seems like another player who just sits in the centre of the park and just have a few nice touches every once in a while (I hope he proves me wrong).  Wingers, what can I say, on their day, they can be the best wingers in the league, other times, they can be liabilities.  Hucks can work for the whole match, while Croft runs himself into the ground 1st half and then is so knackered in the 2nd, that he can''t do anything.  

[norfolkchance1 0]

I believe that Grant knows the situation regarding the defence not being good enough but he can''t talk about shipping in new players to the media for fear of damaging the confidence of the present defenders, and hence rocking the boat.

In the summer I think he will try to improve the team in the same fashion which he has in the short time he has been here by getting good value for money players such as Lappin and removing people who spend most of their time in cuckoo land as the game passes them by.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Gazza"]

Would some of you people agree with everything our beloved club say?!?. Grant is well and truly wrong on this one granted(excuse the pun) you defend as a team but totally agree with smudger only Drury/Shacks/Colin good enough to play in a side challenging at the right end of the table.FOURTEEN GAMES WITHOUT A CLEAN SHEET I REST MY CASE!

[/quote]disagree, we need a new right back and two central defenders - shacks is good enough for back up, as he did for malky & flem in our champs winning year.  drury still cuts it, but he''s not the force he was.  would love to keep dion, but age is against him now.  sadly, i''d let dion, doc and hughes go and bring in some new blood for next season.

[USAcanary 0]

You win this division by scraping 1-0 away wins and 1-1 draws away.

We have proven time and again this year we cannot defend a lead in the last 10 mins.

The only times we have looked solid and more organised is when Dion is partnering Shacks.

Dion is not the long term answer, we need to bring in a young center half that Dion can groom along side shacks.

Having a great goalscorer doesnt mean anything if you are conceding lots of goals.

Crewe had Ashton and we had Earnie (people forget we were not exactly at the top when Earnie got hurt) 

Hopefully Grant will get some of the Earnie money to spend on some new players.