Colin Substitution?

[magic_eyes 0]

Can anyone explain the first substitution last night?

Why would you take off a specialist right back in Colin, who has having a decent game, and replace him with Hughes, who was having a shocker (as usual) and continued to do so after?

I am slightly mystified by this one.   Colin was clearly not injured as he jogged up and down the line for about 10 mins after being subbed.

OTBC 

[Anderz 0]

I wasn''t there so am only offering my own perspective on the substitution, but perhaps Grant wanted Hughes to stay on the pitch, but wanted to add Martin to the midfield/forward line and saw taking off Colin as the way to accomodate both objectives.

Agreed that taking off a specialist defender/rightback and replacing with a ''utility'' player may seem illogical, but sometimes illogical wins you games.

[One Flew Over... 33]

Neil Adams suggested it was because we were chasing the game and Hughes offers more of an attacking option than Colin as right back. This seemed to be the case as Hughes got into good positions on the right, but was then unable to put a decent cross in.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Is this actually about the Wolves game?  Hughes came on as sub and was then subbed for Martin.  He was very unhappy and Grant felt a bit sory for him.  I doubt that Grant would give in to player power but perhaps he felt that he owed Hooze one and so, gave him the benefit of the doubt by taking Colin off instead.  I think that there is a sentimental side to Grant and he seems to have a strong sense of right and wrong so he may have felt a little guilty.

On the plus side, he may also have felt that Hooze gets forward more than Colin so was a better choice when chasing a game.

[ZLF 335]

I wasnt there either but it seems to be Grant thinks HUghes gives us more going forward,  being 1-0 down at the time the change allowed a more attack minded Hughe sto stay on and allowed a re-jig in midfield to allow Croft back on the right which is undoubtedly his best position (personally would have taken hughes off as the colin croft combo works well going forward and defending,  but then I wouldnt have started with Croft on the left either - dont stop using a combo that works - especially as the hughes colin one clearly doesnt) - and it seems to have worked so fair play.

[Chris Meadows 0]

I see why PG need it now, Hughes gets forward much more than Colin does at right back, the only problem is Hughes can''t bloody cross

[greenTshirt 2]

was an obvious move to me - we were one nil down - put up three strikers plus dublin and put Hughes to left back where we know he can do a job. Have no problem with it.

The subsitution which got me was Doherty coming on - a disaster waiting to happen if ever there was one. Thankfully I think he only got a couple of touches.

[Accy Stan 0]

[quote user="greenTshirt"]

was an obvious move to me - we were one nil down - put up three strikers plus dublin and put Hughes to left back where we know he can do a job. Have no problem with it.

The subsitution which got me was Doherty coming on - a disaster waiting to happen if ever there was one. Thankfully I think he only got a couple of touches.

[/quote]

Agreed  greenT, Donkerty always scares me, he''s an accident waiting to happen.

[burn down the ipswich 0]

to be honest i thought hughes had a good game for once, he got some good tackles in and worked hard as usual. if he could cross the flamin ball he''d be a good full back

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

Is this actually about the Wolves game?  Hughes came on as sub and was then subbed for Martin.  He was very unhappy and Grant felt a bit sory for him.  I doubt that Grant would give in to player power but perhaps he felt that he owed Hooze one and so, gave him the benefit of the doubt by taking Colin off instead.  I think that there is a sentimental side to Grant and he seems to have a strong sense of right and wrong so he may have felt a little guilty.

On the plus side, he may also have felt that Hooze gets forward more than Colin so was a better choice when chasing a game.

[/quote]

I think the Wolves game was different CC although I can see where you are coming from. Hughes came on in that game because Robbo had to go centreback. He took Robbos previous position wide left and was a liability there. Hughes is better on the right.

Grant changed the team around last night in order to get Martin up front and it worked. We have to remember that he knows the weaknesses and imbalances that were in our squad and has already taken remedial action Those new players weren''t availavle last night, so he was actually working with reduced midfield options having lost Robinson.

I think Hughes is quite an intelligent footballer who gives 100% and often picks the right options, he just plain doesn''t have enough ability to make it count. He made some good passes last night but will be remembered for the awful wasted crosses.

I don''t know what the future is for Andy Hughes but I would be happy for him to stay at this club as a squad player.

 

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Colin wasn''t playing very well to be honest - Grant needed to change the shape and it was either Hughes or Colin that had to go, and our Jurgen was having a it of an off night.

[Syteanric 1]

Great tactical change by Grant.. he wanted to go 4-4-2 and Put hucks left wing and Croft right wing.. the only way he could accomadte this was to put hughes at full back as he had played there before and we had no one else who could do that on the bench.

Grant deserves Credit for a gamble that paid off.. sign of a good manager.

 Like for like doesnt always work with substitutions.. and at least hughes wasnt out of position...

jas :)

[Hardhouse44 289]

Because he is awful. Not a clue what to do with the ball at his feet. No future at this club if we want to build next year. Simple below the standard required from a fullback in this league. Or distribution from both fullback position is dreadful. Fullbacks should be creating 6 to 10 goals a season and even notching themselves once or twice a season. Ours do neither. Colin should be released and replaced in the summer.
Oh by the way lost count of the times he got caught out of position last night in the first half.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Hardhouse44"]

Because he is awful. Not a clue what to do with the ball at his feet. No future at this club if we want to build next year. Simple below the standard required from a fullback in this league. Or distribution from both fullback position is dreadful. Fullbacks should be creating 6 to 10 goals a season and even notching themselves once or twice a season. Ours do neither. Colin should be released and replaced in the summer.
Oh by the way lost count of the times he got caught out of position last night in the first half.

[/quote]

thats the biggest load of crap i think i have ever read ont his board! and ive read some of dickys posts!

Colin has been our best defender this season (apart from Dion) he offers something at the back that we have missed since Eddie left.. ok so going forward might not be his best point.. but hes a defender... his job is to defend...

His postioning, Tackling and passing is alot better than Drurys. Drury contributes going forward but for a defender is shocking!

 Have u actually seen colin this season Hardhouse? he isnt the colin of last season! and if u talk about out of Position.. how many times is Adam Drury standing on the penalty spot compared to jurgen colin.

Look at how many goals we concede down the so called "best defender outside the premiership (Barry Frys words.. and we all take him seriously dont we?) compared to how many goals we concede down Jurgens side?

 He is a contender for player of the year with Hucks and dion... no one mentions Drury in that breath... so if Colin isnt up to the standard by your reckoning then Drury must be league 2???!!!

jas :)

[Gingerpele 0]

Hughes is a right or left back and made some good passes and colin is a good player but does not produce anything

[Largey 0]

Putting Hughes at right-back meant Croft could move into right-midfield and the team looked to have a much better shape and atack from the wings when this happened, coupled with Martin moving up front and Hucks switching back to the Left.

Hughes crossing was awful but his tackling was fair and he worked hard. Even a few stepovers at the end :)

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Matt - You are entirely right but the same effect would have been achieved by taking Hooze off and putting Croft on the right in his place so there must have more to it than that !!!

[ZLF 335]

[quote user="greenTshirt"]

was an obvious move to me - we were one nil down - put up three strikers plus dublin and put Hughes to left back where we know he can do a job. Have no problem with it.

The subsitution which got me was Doherty coming on - a disaster waiting to happen if ever there was one. Thankfully I think he only got a couple of touches.

[/quote]

Check the stats - we conceed fewer goals per game and win the same points per game with Doc at centre back than any centre back who has played this season.  Give the bloke a break - if he deserves criticism so do dion and shax who have been less effective at the same job. 

The reality is that we have three reasonable centre backs who all perform to a similar standard game in game out, one edging the other in individual games but NONE are a stand out performer. 

[Old Boy 0]

So Hughes is better as an attacking full-back, except that he messes up most of his crosses? Which makes a nonsense of that argument. Colin is actually quite creative - he''s made some very good incisive passes. However, he rarely takes the conventional route - beating the opposing fullback on the outside and crossing from the bye line. But he is starting to overlap well with Croft, and he''s better in this position that Hughes. I think this does go back to the Wolves game, as Cambridge Canary suggests.

[Hairy Canary 754]

[quote user="Hardhouse44"]

Because he is awful. Not a clue what to do with the ball at his feet. No future at this club if we want to build next year. Simple below the standard required from a fullback in this league. Or distribution from both fullback position is dreadful. Fullbacks should be creating 6 to 10 goals a season and even notching themselves once or twice a season. Ours do neither. Colin should be released and replaced in the summer.
Oh by the way lost count of the times he got caught out of position last night in the first half.

[/quote]

I find this hard to believe! The only explaination is that you have either never seen him play or your judgement is completely at odds to eveyone elses.

Colin has got good control and positional sense, links well with Croft (forward and back), prevents far more crosses coming in to the box than Drury can even dream of and has plenty of pace. Fair enough his heading is not brilliant and he could get forward more but he is a defender first and does a bloody good job of it IMO and in the opinions of plenty of others too.

Most of all I am fed up with people saying he gets caught out of position. He does not. He does not need to play tight to attackers because he has plenty of pace and reads the game well. This gives him a bit more time to get in the right place to stop attacking players getting to the by-line and balls coming into the box. Almost without exception there will be more crosses coming in from Drueys side of the pitch (he does get too tight to wingers and is often "turned" by the way) than Colins! This really chesses me off!

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

Because he is awful. Not a clue what to do with the ball at his feet. No future at this club if we want to build next year. Simple below the standard required from a fullback in this league. Or distribution from both fullback position is dreadful. Fullbacks should be creating 6 to 10 goals a season and even notching themselves once or twice a season. Ours do neither. Colin should be released and replaced in the summer.
Oh by the way lost count of the times he got caught out of position last night in the first half.

[/quote]

thats the biggest load of crap i think i have ever read ont his board! and ive read some of dickys posts!

Colin has been our best defender this season (apart from Dion) he offers something at the back that we have missed since Eddie left.. ok so going forward might not be his best point.. but hes a defender... his job is to defend...

His postioning, Tackling and passing is alot better than Drurys. Drury contributes going forward but for a defender is shocking!

 Have u actually seen colin this season Hardhouse? he isnt the colin of last season! and if u talk about out of Position.. how many times is Adam Drury standing on the penalty spot compared to jurgen colin.

Look at how many goals we concede down the so called "best defender outside the premiership (Barry Frys words.. and we all take him seriously dont we?) compared to how many goals we concede down Jurgens side?

 He is a contender for player of the year with Hucks and dion... no one mentions Drury in that breath... so if Colin isnt up to the standard by your reckoning then Drury must be league 2???!!!

jas :)

[/quote]Not sure I would put it this forcefully because Hardhouse is entitled to his opinion after all but I do agree with the substance of what Jas says.  Colin is not the finished article but he is one player who is improving this season and is blossoming under Grant.  If you remember how Worthy used to shout at him, that is not surprising.  Yes I know Grant shouts but he shouts at everyone.  Worthy shouting must have been really demoralising.

[greenTshirt 2]

fair comment if the stats back it up - prob with Doherty is the inconsistency. He has played so well for us at times but scares the living daylights out of me most of the time. My preception is that recently he has looked shaky. I hope the confidence generally in the team is on the up and this will rub off on him.

[lucky green trainers 0]

my reading of the game suggests that grant was peed off with colin for again going awol when they where attacking.  i don''t know if you can remember a through ball to their lively no7. who found himself  left side (where was colin?)  and onside - all alone with only the keeper to beat - he hit it straight at marshall who stood up tall and did well.  2 nil then could have killed us.  i think grant thought he''d reshuffle and did.  hughes did ok, but is not a right back for me - however, neither is colin - he''s no edworthy.

[Hardhouse44 289]

So we leak goals like a sieve yet Dion is awesome Colin is great and hey Shackell is a great young prospect. I''ve watch city for 25 years and I''ve seen dozens of our fullback and nearly all were way ahead of Colin in the ability stakes. All this effort stuff doesn''t cut the mustard with me it quality we need and he has very little. But hey if your happy with things then fine. But I think we are crammed full of substandard players for this league and Colin is one of them.

[Stevie Wonder 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Great tactical change by Grant.. he wanted to go 4-4-2 and Put hucks left wing and Croft right wing.. the only way he could accomadte this was to put hughes at full back as he had played there before and we had no one else who could do that on the bench.

Grant deserves Credit for a gamble that paid off.. sign of a good manager.

 Like for like doesnt always work with substitutions.. and at least hughes wasnt out of position...

jas :)

[/quote]

Or just take off Hughes!! Actually I think Grant has felt bad about the whole Wolves situation. Why else was Hughes wide right and Croft switched? He could have quite easily played Hughes wide left but perhaps he didn''t want to leave Hughes hung out to dry?