Books Balanced

[Making Plans 936]

Green +£2m, Leon +£1m, Earnshaw -£3m = books balanced

That means thar out of the Ashton £7m, only £0.75m has been spent on players (Croft)

What about the other £6.25m ?

 

[Dionysus 0]

...and the parachute payment?

[Ramrod 258]

I suspect plans are in hand to put another tier on the City stand and quite honestly the Championship for me is a more enjoyable league than the Prem.

[Alan_Grey 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"]

Green +£2m, Leon +£1m, Earnshaw -£3m = books balanced

That means thar out of the Ashton £7m, only £0.75m has been spent on players (Croft)

What about the other £6.25m ?

 

[/quote]Please tell me that''s a joke. If not then the appropriate sarcastic response is "disappeared down the same hole as your understanding of football finances."

[londoncanary 0]

Excellent post! My thoughts exactly, also what about the parachute payments??? Take a minute to think about our wage bill? It must be tiny big earners......... hucks and ernie??? Who else maybe Saf ? Has Robert Chase made a sly return we dont do know about yet!? Where has all the money gone?

 

 

[Carrow89 0]

Are you the binner''s financial director or something, you don''t seem too bright ?

We have NOT received £2m for Green, nor have we received £1m for McKenzie.

Of the money from Ashton part went to Crewe and part was money we borrowed from future ticket sales.

What we have received, and doubtlessly will continue to receive, is endless bleats and whines from those with a grudge against the club.

[rainbow 0]

Most of the clubs income will go on players wages and secured loan interest payments. There is money availible for NW to spend on new players but not 6.25m! If you want to know exactally what happens to the money then send Neil Doncaster an Email, he will be more than glad to explain like he has allready done 1000 times before, just how we spend the money and what our assets are!

[sussexcanary 0]

So Ralph you''re happy with our policy of selling senior players and not replacing them are you? And do you think the squad has adequate cover to sustain a concerted promotion push?

I mean thats what we all want isn''t it Ralph...our team challenging for promotion? I worry about supporters like you Ralphy baby...i think you should go and watch Thetford Town a teaam more akin with your aspirations.

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]So Ralph you''re happy with our policy of selling senior players and not replacing them are you ?[/quote]

I take it you haven''t read the thread where Leon is quoted as saying that he wouldn''t play for us anymore then.

Or noticed that we''ve been mullered by Wigan''s Premiership status.

It''s a long season, let''s see what happens.

[GJD 0]

I don’t pretend to even understand my bank balance, let alone a business like football. However a few question I would like understand.

1 – What was our total outgoing for the premiership season. Includes wages, bonus, transfers, agent fees and general cost of running the club.

2 – What were our total incomings for the year of that same season. TV money, gate receipts, sponsored, club merchandise, player sales (actual return to the club), food and other club revenue.

Lets put the two together alongside and then maybe we can see where the money has gone. Not a club shareholder so no access to club accounts etc.

Maybe Mr Doncaster has done that already, but I have missed that information so far.

We were the second best supported club in the Championship last season and if Greens wages were indicative, then I would suggest he was not on a fortune for a England capped goalkeeper in football terms and would suspect he was one of the higher earners at the club.

So I think the question is a relevant one to explain to laymen like myself where our clubs money goes. Handing over to some financial wizard to answer these genuine points of interest for me.

[sussexcanary 0]

Blah - I take your point about Leon not wanting to play for us anymore.  But that doesn''t excuse the fact that someone of similar ability should have been drafted in before we sold him.

That is ineptitude in the extreme.  Somewhat typical of Worthless in the last two years.

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]Are you the binner''s financial director or something, you don''t seem too bright ? We have NOT received £2m for Green, nor have we received £1m for McKenzie. Of the money from Ashton part went to Crewe and part was money we borrowed from future ticket sales. What we have received, and doubtlessly will continue to receive, is endless bleats and whines from those with a grudge against the club.[/quote]

I think you''ll find Ralph that we paid Crewe the balance on the transfer fee last summer, when we sold players for nearly £2.5 million and spent only £788,000 on new signings (information from 2005 Annual Report).

And what about the parachute money?  £12 million, where do you think it has gone?  Please try to answer the question instead of flinging insults around.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

Mystic - Some hope!!, Ralph does no "do" answering questions and flinging insults is his speciality. Prove me wrong Ralph and provide Mystic with a straight answer.

[Evil Monkey 52]

Ralph/BBB

Surely even the rose-tinted spectacle brigade cannot defend this

transfer policy?  Are you suggesting we got absolutely no money

for these players?

What about Wigan - Chimbonda informed them two months ago that he

wanted out, yet they still held out and practically raped Spurs for the

transfer fee.  They were more than willing to let him rot than

sell him for nowt.

We got £2m for Francis, £7m for Ashton, £2m for Green and now £1m for

McKenzie.  Okay, take out add-ons, but you''re still looking at £10

million in the last year!

Where has that gone?

Neil Doncaster''s Media Studies Course, it seems...

[Carrow89 0]

Glad to see that at least one forum tradition is still alive and kicking. The one of taking a lie, twisting the reply and then inventing a conclusion. Well done sussex canary.

As to me watching Thetford Town then yes, if it was my club, I would go and watch them. Not sit at home forever carping and whining.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]Glad to see that at least one forum tradition is still alive and kicking. The one of taking a lie, twisting the reply and then inventing a conclusion. Well done sussex canary. As to me watching Thetford Town then yes, if it was my club, I would go and watch them. Not sit at home forever carping and whining.[/quote]

Ahem.

Ralph, I''m waiting.  I''ve got all night.

[Evil Monkey 52]

I trust, Mystic, that you''re not actually going to wait up all night

expecting Ralph Wright to answer a simple question and say anything

remotely negative about  I mean, there are miracles like the

feeding of the 5000 and such, but to expect this is to go too far...

Not that we hadn''t twigged long ago that Ralph was Doomcaster...

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

We have had 2 weeks to find a replacement since Mckenzie said he wanted out.  We have spent the summer looking for a striker......

This has been a poor show.  Lets hope we remain relatively injury free untill January.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

Death of Canaries. Seriously mate, do you actually know anything about football? In case you don''t let me remind you. Wigan have got a bloke called David Whelan who pumps tens of millions of pounds into that club. He''s made a fortune selling tracksuits and other sports wear to chavs. To compare Wigan''s transfer policy to ours is absolutely and totally riduculous. They don''t have to worry where the next £10 million is coming from cos Uncle Dave will just stump it up. They can hold on for top dollar for Chimbonda because if they don''t sell him they don''t have to worry. We have to worry about McKenzie because if he doesn''t sign a new contract he will walk away for nothing in 10 months time. That''s the reality of our situation.It''s not fair, but that is the REALITY. Please, please, please, just for once, why don''t you actually acknowledge it in one of your posts.

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="Thirsty Lizard"]Death of Canaries. Seriously mate, do you

actually know anything about football? In case you don''t let me remind

you. Wigan have got a bloke called David Whelan who pumps tens of

millions of pounds into that club. He''s made a fortune selling

tracksuits and other sports wear to chavs. To compare Wigan''s transfer

policy to ours is absolutely and totally riduculous. They don''t have to

worry where the next £10 million is coming from cos Uncle Dave will

just stump it up. They can hold on for top dollar for Chimbonda because

if they don''t sell him they don''t have to worry. We have to worry about

McKenzie because if he doesn''t sign a new contract he will walk away

for nothing in 10 months time. That''s the reality of our situation.It''s

not fair, but that is the REALITY. Please, please, please, just for

once, why don''t you actually acknowledge it in one of your

posts.[/quote]

Thirst Lizard.  Seriously mate, do you actually know anything about NCFC?

I notice how you''ve made great protestations about Wigan, but have

failed to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, NCFC have made a bit of

cash from player transfers over the last few seasons.  We didn''t

need to sell Leon, and if he was desperate to move away (which, by the

way, we seem to have known for 2 weeks) then surely we could get a few

plans in place to replace him, sooner than 48 hours before the window

closes?

Yes, boo hoo, we were trying to sign Cotterill and he chose another

club (Wigan, by the way) over us.  But the fact remains that we

have a little cash in our coffers, and if we were willing to pay

upwards of £2m for Cotterill at such short notice, then surely a call

should have gone in to MK Dons or Southend to say "hey, we have some

cash free, can we have your top striker?".

Please, please, please, just for once, why don''t you acknowledge the

fact that our transfer policy is a joke in one of your posts?

(By the way, I have no idea about your posts, or what tone they

generally take, but the above to myself was p*ssy and so I responded in

kind).

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="mystic megson"]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]Are you the binner''s financial director or something, you don''t seem too bright ? We have NOT received £2m for Green, nor have we received £1m for McKenzie. Of the money from Ashton part went to Crewe and part was money we borrowed from future ticket sales. What we have received, and doubtlessly will continue to receive, is endless bleats and whines from those with a grudge against the club.[/quote]

I think you''ll find Ralph that we paid Crewe the balance on the transfer fee last summer, when we sold players for nearly £2.5 million and spent only £788,000 on new signings (information from 2005 Annual Report).

And what about the parachute money?  £12 million, where do you think it has gone?  Please try to answer the question instead of flinging insults around.

[/quote]

Let''s bump this up to the top of the board again shall we, and see what happens.

Ralph, we know you''re there . . . 

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

We have had 2 weeks to find a replacement since Mckenzie said he wanted out.  We have spent the summer looking for a striker......

This has been a poor show.  Lets hope we remain relatively injury free untill January.

[/quote]

You forgot to mention we''re only 3 points from 14th.

[rich 0]

i''m hoping ramrod was joking about rather being in the championship than the premiership.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="rich"]i''m hoping ramrod was joking about rather being in the championship than the premiership.[/quote]

I can see what Ramrod is on about.  There''s still something a bit more authentic about the Championship, and I can enjoy it provided I feel that we''re doing our level best to get out of it, even if we don''t succeed.

I just am becoming more uneasy every day about the aims and ambitions of the people who run this club.

[T 0]

I am disappointed we haven''t boosted the squad as I feel our first team is good enough to get promoted but our squad isn''t unless we get lucky with injuries. However, Rainbow is correct. The income is being spent on wages and debt service costs, and also runing costs and infrastucture capex. The board of directors have a fudiciary duty to ensure that they can meet their obligation i.e. ensure there is suffecient funds to meet existing contractual obligations and service the debt before they can enter into new contracts i.e. buy new players. The debt is also likely to have covenants which restict the money that the club can spend. It would be interesting to see a full set of financial statements with detailed p&L, balance sheet, cash flow and notes to see where the money is going and compare them with other clubs then an assessment of the Boards "prudence with ambition" could be made on facts rather than emotional speculation. Normally you would want to see that the debt is no more than say four times the recurring EBITDA and there was at least two times projected interest cover. Is a detailed set of accounts published as I can''t find any financial statements on the net. Deloitte and Touche used to provide an excellent financial analysis of football clubs but I can not find that either. Ultimately the club and the directors have contractual and legal obligations. In reality I suspect that like most clubs they are already spending as much as they can possibly afford. Asking the directors to spend money the club hasn''t got is asking the directors to break the law. I don''t mind criticising the board based on facts, and I wish some posters would look that word up in a dictionary, but it is harsh to criticize the board based on supposition.  

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="mystic megson"]

[quote user="rich"]i''m hoping ramrod was joking about rather being in the championship than the premiership.[/quote]

I can see what Ramrod is on about.  There''s still

something a bit more authentic about the Championship, and I can enjoy

it provided I feel that we''re doing our level best to get out of it,

even if we don''t succeed.

I just am becoming more uneasy every day about the aims and ambitions of the people who run this club.

[/quote]

I see his point too - it''s a more honest league, where players have to

work hard for their cash, not swan about on high wages whining about

how many games they''re playing (this week we have a Champions League

game against Barcelona, then on Sunday we play Chelsea - boo bloody

hoo).

Hell, I''ve enjoyed Conference games more than the Prem at times.

But it''s still the place to be - the chance to compete among some of

the top clubs in the world! It was only a year and a half ago that we

beat one of them 2-0 as well... happy days...[:D]

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Eggs and one basket come to mind. Yet again no plan B

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="T"]

I am disappointed we haven''t boosted the squad as I feel our first team is good enough to get promoted but our squad isn''t unless we get lucky with injuries. However, Rainbow is correct. The income is being spent on wages and debt service costs, and also runing costs and infrastucture capex. The board of directors have a fudiciary duty to ensure that they can meet their obligation i.e. ensure there is suffecient funds to meet existing contractual obligations and service the debt before they can enter into new contracts i.e. buy new players. The debt is also likely to have covenants which restict the money that the club can spend. It would be interesting to see a full set of financial statements with detailed p&L, balance sheet, cash flow and notes to see where the money is going and compare them with other clubs then an assessment of the Boards "prudence with ambition" could be made on facts rather than emotional speculation. Normally you would want to see that the debt is no more than say four times the recurring EBITDA and there was at least two times projected interest cover. Is a detailed set of accounts published as I can''t find any financial statements on the net. Deloitte and Touche used to provide an excellent financial analysis of football clubs but I can not find that either. Ultimately the club and the directors have contractual and legal obligations. In reality I suspect that like most clubs they are already spending as much as they can possibly afford. Asking the directors to spend money the club hasn''t got is asking the directors to break the law. I don''t mind criticising the board based on facts, and I wish some posters would look that word up in a dictionary, but it is harsh to criticize the board based on supposition.  

[/quote]

Good post T.  As far as I know, the fullest figures available are contained in the Annual Report. If you know anyone who is a shareholder they should have a copy.  The next one is due in about November for the year to 31st May 2006. 

It sounds as though your''e a finance bod, so you won''t be surprised to hear that the accounts don''t always tell us what we really want to know.  For example, it''s impossible to gauge how profitable the catering operation is because it''s lumped together with retail sales.    

Like you I wish we were in possession of all the facts.  But just because we''re not, that doesn''t mean we should stick our heads in the sand.  We''ve swallowed the "prudence with ambition" mantra for far too long.  The unrest that occurred last season would not have reached such extremes of polarisation or been directed so exclusively towards the manager if we had woken up sooner, in my opinion. 

In 2003/4 the level of debt rose from £8 million to over £18.1 million.  It has gone on rising ever since despite a profitable season in the Premiership and £12 million in parachute payments.  It''s entirely due to a massive loan taken out by the club in 2003/4 to spend on infrastructure and refinancing existing debt, not on transfer fees or wages.  As a result, nearly £2 million of our limited income disappeared down the drain last year on servicing the debt.  That''s £2 million that we the fans put into the club via ticket sales etc. 

No one is suggesting for a minute that they''ve done anything illegal.  But aren''t we entitled to question the size of this loan and what it''s been spent on, and to feel that someone somewhere has taken their eye off the ball?

  

[Chip20 69]

[quote user="sussexcanary"]

I worry about supporters like you Ralphy baby...i think you should go and watch Thetford Town a teaam more akin with your aspirations.

[/quote]

 

Er...and I think you should go and support Chelsea, sussexycanary baby; a team more akin with your aspirations!!?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Are you suggesting we got absolutely no money for these players?[/quote]

No.  If we had no money, we wouldn''t be spending 2 million + on an 18 year old.

[quote]We got £2m for Francis, £7m for Ashton, £2m for Green and now £1m for McKenzie.  Okay, take out add-ons, but you''re still looking at £10 million in the last year![/quote]

We got 1.5 m for Francis.  £1.5m of Ashtons'' fee went to Crewe, 300k+ went to his agent for renegotiating his contract so I think you can assume the same when we signed Ashton.  We have money, we just aren''t blowing it until we find players that will improve the first team.  600k for MacKenzie up front, and nobody knows what Greens'' "basic" transfer fee was because it has remained undisclosed.

You''re talking about the cake (headline figures) without acknowledging the pieces that are taken before we get it.

There seems to be a concerted effort to keep the squad small in case we can''t get to the Premiership this season, and this has been mainly through "natural wastage".  The players who have left in the main have wanted to, either to play in the Premiership or because they weren''t getting in the team, and we are only replacing if we feel that the player will either add value to the squad, or if the player will gain value in his time here.  To me that is the sign of a tightly run ship, and should mean that we won''t have to sell wholesale if we fail to promote like Wolves did.

The loan system provides us with the flexibility to deal with most problems.  If a key player gets injured, we have a chance of bringing in an equivelent rather than relying upon an understudy.  We can also loan with a view to buying.  Couple that with the reserve team not playing anything like the number of games as they did last season, and you start to see the requirement for a smaller squad.