Racist fan MUST get Carrow Rd ban.

[nik wyer 0]

After all the work the club has done re. Kick Racism Out Of Football, surely they have must ban the guy who racially abused Dickson Etuhu. If they fail to do this they will make a mockery out of this campaign, and be seen not to take a tough stance on racisim. I for one never wish to see or hear this at Carrow Rd.

If this was up to me he would recieve a lifetime ban.

[barclay4ever 0]

totally agree. no place for it anywere especially a family cub like norwich.

after the way the club persued everton for an apology after being accused of racist chanting they hav to ban this guy and keep up the good work getting rid of racism

[canary cherub 1]

Couldn''t agree more, especially as he threatened the fan who remonstrated with him "If you go down to the toilets we''ll be waiting".

Yes we''re a family based club, but even if we weren''t it would still be unacceptable.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

This racist asshole should be banned for life.

[Ramrod 258]

I was pleased to see the complainer gave the individual advice first but question whether his subsequent complaint of racial conduct was on other grounds such as his ongoing and unjustified behaviour towards the complainer and not the racist remark in isolation.

If an isolated remark is made then that is either reason for complaint in itself or it is not. In this case it appears the isolated remark was dealt with by the education of peer disapproval and I submit in most cases this should suffice. If the conduct is persistant then action should be warranted.

I suggest Norwich do not ban this fan for the racist remark in isolation but as a part of his general conduct.

We all carry prejudices. Sometime we portray them intentionally or accidentally and it may be difficult in single instances to prove which is which. Giving the benefit of the doubt or assuming education is required needs a tolerant approach in the first instance and I would suggest a person who shouts a racist phrase at a football match would learn more about the true effect and ignorence of his comment by the disapproval of those around him rather than through over zealous official action or perceived state led political correctness.

Intolerence is a two way street and you don''t stamp out an attitude through the overbearing use of legislation.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Totally agree, he should be banned for life.

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

A season ban maybe but a lifetime ban definitely not.

I''m not condoning racism at all but to ban him for life is a far too excessive punishment.

[Ark 0]

[quote user="FilletTheFishWife ."]

A season ban maybe but a lifetime ban definitely not.

I''m not condoning racism at all but to ban him for life is a far too excessive punishment.

[/quote]I tend to agree that a lifetime ban is a harsh knee-jerk reaction to someone who - apparently - has seen the error of their ways. However, even if this is an isolated comment and completely out of character from the person concerned, it is important not to send a message to the REAL biggots and troublemakers that no kind of rascism is tolerated at Carrow Road. So a limited ban (eg. one season) is probably the right way to go.

[Dizzy Rascal 0]

    I can''t see how someone who makes a racist remark in public like that, hasn''t done it before either in public or in private. I''d definetly give him a hefty ban.

[no1 donny fan 0]

i say a life time ban

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

Well done to Mr McKechnie for standing up to this racist thug. Shame on the courts for not backing him up, and failing to impose a banning order on the offender. The club should now step in and ban this racist from our club. I would suggest at least 3-5 seasons, with any later return monitored by the club. I agree that he should be given the chance to learn from his behaviour. But I shudder to think what parents with young kids would feel if they ended up being sat next to this racist who threatens anyone who challenges his behaviour. Some family club. Imagine how Mr McKechnie must feel if he next enters Carrow Rd again and finds himself sat next to this racist?

[The Duke of Norfolk 0]

Depends if he used the N word to describe Dickson.

If he was just being descriptive in his abuse of Dickson then the penalty should be less.

He does sound like a scum bag though judging by his threats to the guy who reported him, so yeah i would say ban him for life on that basis alone.

[chicken 0]

There is only one race that I have racist predjudices against and that is racists!!!!I say stick the guys face over the papers, give him community service working alongside some people of varying ethnic backrounds and hand him a year ban and five years suspended ban which could get activated if he fails to stop his behaviour.I am not defending this guy I dont even know his name but there are some terms out there that I didn''t even know could be considered racist so if it is the first time then I think caution and observation is required.Having said that I knew of a guy - more of a thug really from the season I spent training with Wymondham Town FC. He was the most racist person I have ever met and has to be the only person that I have met face to face that I had to really concentrate on not hitting. The worsed thing was the people at the club tollerated it. He wasn''t obviously racist as in he wouldnt shout out racist comments out loud or anything but he was a thug through and through.I had a conversation about Norwich with him once as he was a supporter too and he never refered to our ethnic players by names other than racist nicknames he had given them. He wouldn''t talk to the clubs ethnic players and was more than slightly aggressive with anyone he thought deserved it. Lets just say I didn''t like the guy very much at all.

[Ramrod 258]

Racism is from the bullying family.

Let me assure you all I am strongly opposed to bullying in all it''s forms although being human have to accept my own fallability on occasions.

The use of racist language, like other bullying language is used to demean the subject and make them less than they really are on a downward spiral where with each re-incarnation the bullying becomes easier.

So much easier, isn''t it to systematically seek to destroy an individual called Captain Clap or Andy Hooves or in another form, worthless.

You will no doubt disagree but the same mentality leads ordinarily rational people to believe a Town 40 miles down the road is populated by lesser being than themselves who, when they wear their teams colours, as we do are suddenly ''Binners'' or ''The Scum.''

It can all hurt and offend in its own way, it can be just as destructive to the offender as much as to the victim. Witness the hysteria on these boards over certain issue outside of the control of the poster and see how the language progressively denegrates the subject.

I write this because I am appalled at the hypocracy and mob mentality of most of the posts on this subject. None of you probably know the circumstances or the individual and yet you are prepared to use the powerful weapon of a ''racist'' title to deal severely with the person concerned.

It might be that the actual circumstances deserve a lifetime ban, I am especially sympathetic to the opinion that the man who complained and dealt with the situation very well in all aspects as far as I can see should not have to find himself having to sit near to that person again but to imply an automatic life ban for anyone in any circumstance as most of you have, in effect, done because you are condemning on scant information is quite wrong and is using law intended to protect minorities for your own empowerment, this is again a form of bullying. It is all about control and one person''s power over another.

As I said before, the overall circumstances of the individual in this case must be considered and the abuse and threats meted out to the complaining supporter are just as serious as the racist comment and should not be lost in the clamour to witch-hunt a racist for your own delectation.

Consider the current situation of muslems. Our free press have so depicted a wide and diverse group of people against a background of terrorism by extremists that the word has become synonymous with that terrorism and people who buy their narrow minded views at the news-stands are so wrapped up in hysteria, because the thick always need a channel for their own frustrations,that they forget all the muslem people they know who are being tainted by such wholesale mis-representation.

Racism has been politically driven, to a point that is correct but taken too far it becomes counter-productive and leads to people jumping on it as a band-wagon as some posters have done on here.

Britain is multi-cultural and has changed a great deal over the last half century, increasingly so as the term mixed race accounts for a huge number of our young people.

In Norfolk this has been less evident and for people over a certain age there has not been the benefit of growing up in more enlightened times or schooling with friends from diverse backgrounds and parenting.

When I was a teenager regular television entertainment was profoundly racist through programmes such as ''The Comedians'' which was Saturday night stand-up ''entertainment'' littered with racist jokes.

Songs sung at Cub Scouts included racist American Southern State shanties and I recall a teacher lecturing that black people had lower intelligence than white.

Beyond certain age groups people have had to learn and re-educate themselves. But there are many left behind and while the law has a role what is really needed to root out racism is a hearts and minds debate and not knee-jerk reaction.

I feel very strongly about this subject and how it has been politicised and I urge all of you to think about your own behaviour before arbitrarily condemning others.

Comedians today, deprived of racist jokes (although there are plenty of black on black -particularly African on Afro -Caribbean examples which in my book are equally unacceptible) pick on unprotected groups. ''The Office'' or ''Little Britain'' mimic the disabled and that makes me fume although I am fortunate not to be in such a position. But it goes to show, doesn''t it, that all of this comes from the same root, the need to deride someone in order to feel comfortable enough in ourselves to laugh at their situation or to persecute them.

None of us are perfect, life is a learning experience,let''s try to deal with these issues properly. NCFC are politically in a very difficult situation now in dealing with this ''supporter.'' The situation needs to be looked into by a panel of people, possibly including Dickson and an outcome reached based on the specific merits of the individual case as this needs to be a bench-mark for future incidents and a proper standard of retribution needs to be set based on reasoning and judgement.

Ordinarily, if a supporter in a stand comes out with an offensive remark the immediate condemation of his or her fellow supporters is surely sufficient in most minor cases but where there are aggravating features as in this case then official action is surely warranted. What we surely do not want to get to is a situation where an offensive or inappropriate remark instantly results in an inquisition and disproportionate action, such reaction is very human and has fueled many a witch trial.

Some of you need to think about your responses to this thread, they do not make you better people or morally superior they just imply a lack of thought and judgement.

[AP16 0]

This is a subject I feel strongly about, and I''m sure opinions will vary upon this guys conduct and punishment. Firstly, whatever he said was wrong, racist behaviour is unacceptable. However, I do believe if a coloured person would have said something a similar ilk towards a white player, such as "you''re rubbish whitey" the punishment would be far less, if anything at all, and all of this "hoo-ha" would be on a much smaller scale.

 

I actually know the man reasonably well, and I was shocked to find out that he shouted any racist abuse as I''ve never heard anything of that sort from him before, nor have I ever experienced or witnessed any such threatening behaviour from him. I hope a ban is imposed, as it does set a precedent for any other fans hoping to repeat his actions, however, I am sure a three season or so ban will suffice, not a lifetime ban. Yes what he said was wrong, but it''s silly to assume that no-one else in the stadium thinks such thoughts, I am not saying that any of you guys on here do, but It''d be ignorant to presume that in this day and age that racism is extinct.  

 

I''m sure three seasons will suffice. If he loves football, especially City as much as the rest of us do, three seasons away from it will be by far enough!

[The Voice of the Thorpe Area 0]

There''s no room for it in football or in any other place. I hope he gets what he deserves.

[Canaries for Ever 0]

I sit a couple of rows in front of where this all kicked off - and I commented at the time that I thought that the guy and his father who reported him sacrificed alot - as it was the Luton game & they missed the whole of the second half giving a statement to the stewards (and what a second half) and to then hear that no ban had been imposed by the court must have felt a real kick in the teeth. I have every admiration for the guy who reported him. He had the full support of everyone around him.

[Ginja 26]

I would have thought a year or two ban at the most for a first time offender, who has shown clear remorse for what he has done. If he did it again I would definatly consider a much longer ban or lifetime ban.We all make mistakes in life and I''ve always been a firm believer in forgiveness. Try to imagine what life would be like if you only got once chance at everything, we all need a second chance at some point in our lives.

[Evil Monkey 52]

Good to see Ramrod and Safri15 restoring a little bit of sense to the

debate, it was fast turning into a "sign here to condemn this man if

you''re not a racist yourself" thread.  I wonder how many people

who have said "ban him for life" have laughed at jokes against other

races, religions, sexual orientation or those with disabilities?

Racism is indeed a terrible thing, and I do not condone it.  But

the judge in this case is satisfied that the man is of previous good

character, and that this was a exception to his personality rather than

a rule.  We should accept that ruling, which has been made by a

court of law based on facts and evidence.

NCFC should indeed impose a ban, in order to send out a clear message

against anyone thinking of using such language in the future, but I

think a lifetime ban is a little extreme, given the circumstances.

[Canary02 0]

Heartily agree DOC.

Obviously the exact quote has never been put forward so it''s impossible to judge the tone and content, and exactly how harsh the language was.

Calling someone a "Useless n*****" is completely unacceptable, and the "n-word" is so inflammatory that the user would have known exactly what he was doing in using the language. However, we don''t know he said that. Had the conversation gone along the lines of

"Oh for Gods sake, you''re useless"

"Who''s useless?"

"That big black moron in midfield"

whilst still unacceptable, is a far cry from the former example in terms of racial undertones. There''s a difference between a RACIST comment and a RACIAL comment (apologies as I''m still not happy with the latter quote as being a perfect example of what i mean but it''s the best I could come up with at the time). We shouldn''t judge as we don''t have all the facts.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Death of Canaries"]Good to see Ramrod and Safri15 restoring a little bit of sense to the debate, it was fast turning into a "sign here to condemn this man if you''re not a racist yourself" thread.  I wonder how many people who have said "ban him for life" have laughed at jokes against other races, religions, sexual orientation or those with disabilities?

Racism is indeed a terrible thing, and I do not condone it.  But the judge in this case is satisfied that the man is of previous good character, and that this was a exception to his personality rather than a rule.  We should accept that ruling, which has been made by a court of law based on facts and evidence.

NCFC should indeed impose a ban, in order to send out a clear message against anyone thinking of using such language in the future, but I think a lifetime ban is a little extreme, given the circumstances.

[/quote]

I can''t agree, Joking is one thing, a ex army scottish friend of mine knows more racist jokes than I care to mention, but is not in the slightest bit racist.  On the other hand I have been in the barclay bar only last season and heard a disturbing conversation about ''blacks'' with such appalling views and language that I had to put in more than my my two cents worth to these small minded individuals.

As for the ban, Life is an instant, but understandable reaction.  Anything less than 3 years and I will be seriously disappointed in our club, there is no place for Racism in society, let alone at a family club like ours. 

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Death of Canaries"] I wonder how many people

who have said "ban him for life" have laughed at jokes against other

races, religions, sexual orientation or those with disabilities?[/quote]Yes exactly DoC! I bet some of you have laughed or even told a dyslexic joke, which to be honest has never bothered me but what makes it any different to rascism?

[Marty 0]

I think too much is being made about the racist element, as far as I am concerned it is the abusive behaviour that he should be punished for. He probably should receive a ban. But it annoys me that you can call someone a f-ing a-hole and nobody seems particularly perturbed by it, but stick in a racist word and you''ll get hung drawn and quartered. Why do we need to find the perpetrator of this type of behaviour guilty of some form of prejudice before we can condemn them?

[Evil Monkey 52]

I was on the bus yesterday and was sat near what I must only describe

as a "chav" (he had sportswear on and even a burburry baseball cap,

just to be doubly sure we knew his social leanings).  He was

talking loudly on the phone and proudly told at least two of his

friends in seperate calls that he had been "nicked last night for

racially aggravated ABH".  Then proceeded to say, "yeah, but he

deserved it the f**king p**i" (hope this is clear enough without being

offensive) and laughed as he described stoving his face in and putting

him in hospital.

This lad is a racist, quite clearly.

Someone at the footy getting extremely frustrated and losing self

control, despite years of good social manners and no previous evidence

of holding racist views, is something entirely different, and let''s not

forget that.  Nobody can agree with what he said, but to condemn

him without knowing the facts or even the person, is slightly

irresponsible.

And Mr Rankin, are you not the one who frequently refers to Worthington as "the Irish Clown"?

[Ramrod 258]

As you can see this is a complex issue.

Mr. Rankin you have defeated your own argument with the example of your mate and alsoshown just how difficult it is to judge racists on words alone.

The use of ''nigger'' is common amongst young black men as a term of abuse and they are just as guilty of perpetuating racism in doing so.

It all comes down to the individual in the end. Some individuals who might be regarded as ''ethnic'' hate the highlighting of their origins above their individuality which is quite often perpetuated by some white skinned do-gooder who thinks he or she knows what other people want.

Most of us have the same cares and concerns and want the same things in life and quite frankly we are typically all a mix of backgrounds.

This whole issue needs perspective and cooling down, we need to be comfortable with each other and knowing each other as individuals really helps, that''s why integration is important.

Other than that we should all be entitled to celebrate our roots and admit none of us are perfect.

[TwoSheds 0]

Flaming nora,i have never came across so many saints in all my life. You are either condeming the man to be banished from the club & then harping on about gbh & conversations you heard in pubs which shocked you so much! Do you live in the real world,or just behind green n yellow curtains? Look whats going on around the world,infact look whats happening in our own country with theses different religeous T*ats marching the streets of London,shouting death to all Christians,Catholics,European & yes to us British aswell! The state of our country is what you need to worry about,after all once you are long gone it will be your children & grandchildren & maybe in some posters cases great grandchildren left to pick up the pieces of our once great country!

Te bloke has shown his remorse,nothing like that will probably happen at Carrow Road for a few years so just get over it!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Death of Canaries"]
And Mr Rankin, are you not the one who frequently refers to Worthington as "the Irish Clown"?
[/quote]

Yes, I have called Alex Fergusen a scottish c*** (and I am 1/4 scottish myself), it is not quite the same as using the words n****r or c**n as in this case according to the article.  Such language is as offensive as you can get and to use those words in a family environment is intolerable.

Mr McKechnie was concerned about what he had heard, but was unsure what to do. At first he told Rennie: ''Excuse me, if you use that language again, I''ll report you to a steward''.

Later he heard Rennie saying: "If you go down to the toilets we will be there."

Ban him for life for all I care, I don''t want his sort at our ground thanks.

[quote user="pinkun"]

No ban for fan who racially abused Etuhu

City magistrates have decided not to impose a football banning order on a Norwich fan who racially abused Canaries midfielder Dickson Etuhu.

But Norwich City FC said last night it had the right to impose its own ban and it would discuss whether or not any action would be taken.

Daniel Rennie, who admitted racially aggravated disorderly conduct, was fined £400 and ordered to pay £60 prosecution costs.

Chairwoman Barbara Goodwin said Rennie, 47, of Jex Road, Norwich, was a man of previous good character and the incident had not been prolonged.

"We are not satisfied that a football banning order is necessary on the basis of this offence," she said.

"We have heard many things that have suggested you would make sure you never do such a thing again."

An NCFC spokesman said: "The club has the right to impose a club banning order and will be internally reviewing this case to see what, if any, action should be taken.

"If Mr Rennie would like to apologise to Dickson Etuhu he should make contact in writing care of the club and this will be forwarded to the player."

Prosecutor Gary Starling told the court yesterday that Rennie had gone to the Norwich City versus Luton Town match at Carrow Road on August 12. Stuart McKechnie, who had gone to the match with his father, was sitting near the defendant. After a few minutes, Norwich player Dickson Etuhu gave the ball away and Mr McKechnie heard Rennie swear at him, using a racist word to describe him. "It was clearly a racist remark in the midst of a crowd at a football match. Black people being referred to by that word is not something to be tolerated in this day and age. It is offensive to any right thinking member of society," said Mr Starling.

Mr McKechnie was concerned about what he had heard, but was unsure what to do. At first he told Rennie: ''Excuse me, if you use that language again, I''ll report you to a steward''.

Later he heard Rennie saying: "If you go down to the toilets we will be there."

Mr McKechnie took that as a threat and later saw some other people apparently remonstrating with the defendant. He then spoke to a steward and asked the other people if they also wished to make a complaint and they indicated that they did. Police were called, Rennie was removed from the ground and admitted making the remark about the black midfielder.

Chris Brown, for Rennie, said the offence involved just one word and it was not the kind of language he had used in the past. "The court will know bad language is part of terrace culture at football matches."

He denied making any other alleged comments, saying they had either been misheard or misinterpreted.

Rennie wanted to apologise to anyone who heard the remark, which he knew he should not have made, and to the player concerned, although he would not have heard it.

Mr Brown said Rennie did not hold racist views or have any feelings of animosity towards people of different colour or racial groups. "He accepts what he did was wrong," added the solicitor.

Leon Mann, spokesman for Kick It Out, football''s anti-racism campaign, said: "There is a clear line between getting hot under the collar and racially abusing someone. This line has clearly been overstepped.

"We would have expected the courts to have imposed some kind of banning order on him because he displayed not only racism tendencies but threatening behaviour.

"We applaud the football club on taking a stand against racism and making a complaint in the right way and for taking up this issue and making sure it''s clear to all supporters they won''t tolerate any sort of abuse or discrimination.

"Although the courts have not imposed a ban, the club, if they feel it is necessary, can still impose a ban on the supporter, and we feel they should do that."

A Blackburn supporter was given a football banning order by the courts after racially abusing Trinidad player Dwight Yorke when he was playing for Birmingham City at Blackburn in November 2004.

[/quote]

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

Yes, I have called Alex Fergusen a scottish c*** (and I am 1/4 scottish myself), it is not quite the same as using the words n****r or c**n as in this case according to the article.  Such language is as offensive as you can get and to use those words in a family environment is intolerable.

[/quote]

I don''t see any difference Paul,  why add the Scottish?  It''s still racism, just because it not directed towards someone of an African or Asian appearance does not mean it''s not racism.

[Marty 0]

To me the issue is the nature of the abusive behaviour, we shouldn’t tolerate threatening behaviour anywhere. As for the language, I don’t really judge unless I understand the context in which it was said. I have used racist / sexist / sizeist and many other prejudiced comments in the past and mainly for comic value, however I haven’t shouted such stuff in the face of a professional footballer in the presence of thousands of people, I simply wouldn’t do this and if I did I would expect punishment. I might watch tv at home and refer to some of the people I see in a less than favourable way because I know I am not a racist / sexist and so do my family and friends, but I wouldn’t do it in front of people I didn’t know. As for twosheds post, I am no fan of the vile banner waving stuff that happened in London recently either, the hypocrisy of it made me sick, I almost wanted to see how far I could march with a similarly inflammatory banner but thought better of it! There needs to be some consistency in the law, but the most important point is that threatening and abusive behaviour should not be tolerated and should be treat appropriately, i.e. punished.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

Yes, I have called Alex Fergusen a scottish c*** (and I am 1/4 scottish myself), it is not quite the same as using the words n****r or c**n as in this case according to the article.  Such language is as offensive as you can get and to use those words in a family environment is intolerable.

[/quote]

I don''t see any difference Paul,  why add the Scottish?  It''s still racism, just because it not directed towards someone of an African or Asian appearance does not mean it''s not racism.

[/quote]

To call someone a black ba***** is one thing, he could just be black and a b****d. To call some one a N****r, P***i or C**n is another altogether, the context of such words in todays society is known to everybody.  They cannot be misconstrued when shouting abuse at someone. These words you only here when race hate is involved.

The guy was asked to stop, after which he went into threatening mode.  From what the article said many others were remonstrating with him.

Its best we show that behaviour like this will not be tolerated, as a football club we stand to kick racism out of football.  Kicking this guy out of the stands for a few years will show we mean it.