Worthy's change of transfer targets.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Worthington said: "But if we''ve got to start looking lower down and looking to bring people in - younger players that we work with; try and help through as an investment for the club - then so be it."

So we havent been doing this before!!  I would have thought that should be the main part of our transfer policy!!  Younger players like Dave Kitson, Greg Halford, Simon Whalley, Matt Fryatt and the like.  Not below average championship rejects like Dickson Etuhu and Andy Hooves, and players well past their prime like 33 year old Peter Thorne.

It is becoming increasingly obvious we really do have a limited one dimensional manager in charge.

[nh_ncfc 0]

I think Etuhu was a good signing. He started off bad - but he''s become a much better player.

But i agree, the rest of them barr Earny were below average signings.

[Syteanric 1]

apart from Desmonds assist vs Leicester away i have yet to see any meaningful contribution from Etuhu thus far

jas :)

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

Worthington said: "But if we''ve got to start looking lower down and looking to bring people in - younger players that we work with; try and help through as an investment for the club - then so be it."

So we havent been doing this before!!  I would have thought that should be the main part of our transfer policy!!  Younger players like Dave Kitson, Greg Halford, Simon Whalley, Matt Fryatt and the like.  Not below average championship rejects like Dickson Etuhu and Andy Hooves, and players well past their prime like 33 year old Peter Thorne.

It is becoming increasingly obvious we really do have a limited one dimensional manager in charge.

[/quote]

Erm we have. Drury, McKenzie and Ashton - all young players from lower down. Young as in 25 and less when we signed them which you could almost throw Doherty in there too (24 when we signed him).

I think the statement is saying that although we havent got our number one target who was proven at this level we are more than happy to go for other targets that may take more time and work to get good.

I think this may refer to the likes of the guy at MK Dons we have been linked with and other players.

To be honest if Luton wanted £1million for Howard then I am not surprised Worthington told them where to go. If Derby (who are not exactly rolling in money) blast that much on a guy who scored what - 14 goals last season? And has a track reccord in the lower leagues then thats their risk.

I think we would all be with Worthington if he came out and said I would rather risk it on a younger player rather than an older one. Or even give the likes of Ryan Jarvis a fairer crack at the whip.

We shall see. I think in a way its a good omen. As for bellow average - I wouldnt say either Etuhu or Hughes are bellow average.

Thanks to some sections of the support - yourself included - Etuhu was hissed and booed in his first game. You want the players to have confidence then give it to them - thats the job of the "supporters" (note that the word "fan" was not used here).

As for Hughes, average he may well be but I think you will find that their were a lot worse playing in the championship last season - just take a look at the relegated clubs and work your way up.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="chicken"][We shall see. I think in a way its a good omen. As for bellow average - I wouldnt say either Etuhu or Hughes are bellow average.

Thanks to some sections of the support - yourself included - Etuhu was hissed and booed in his first game. You want the players to have confidence then give it to them - thats the job of the "supporters" (note that the word "fan" was not used here).

As for Hughes, average he may well be but I think you will find that their were a lot worse playing in the championship last season - just take a look at the relegated clubs and work your way up.

[/quote]

Thanks Chicken, but I have never booed Etuhu, not once, I was quite pleased we signed him on loan, I just watched with shock and surprise at how unbeleivably **** and lazy he is.   Worst of all that is exactly what Preston fans said about him after doing a bit of digging.  Bad Attitude, Lazy and Useless all in a Vieralike figure.   I saw NOTHING in any of the games I saw him play last seaosn to make me feel any different.  And he was utter crap against cambridge too.

Unfortunatly I cannot say the same about hughes.  Against QPR I had had my fill of seeing that utterly useless fool being picked week in week out......  He was truely dire.  Hughes averaged about 4/10 in that extremist anti-worthy newspaper the EDP last season.  that isnt average, that is awful.

These POOR and EXPENSIVE signings are the main reason we finished 9th last season, a massive 13 points off the play-offs.

Championship rejects - neither much liked by the fans of their previous clubs when they were there.

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.

[USAcanary 0]

Jason Jarret by all accounts played well for wigan, plymouth and preston.

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

What were McVeigh & Mackay doing before Worthy turned up?  They certainly were not first team regulars.

[Branston Pickle 4,149]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[Ginja 43]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[/quote]He did well despite Worthy rather than because of in my opinion

[We need a Manager 0]

Its just taken Worthless all summer to realise Howard and Hulse are out of our price range .... the man is a complete liability.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Its just taken Worthless all summer to realise Howard and Hulse are out of our price range .... the man is a complete liability. [/quote]

It''s easy to make incorrect assumptions when you have little or no possession of the facts.  Ever tried Benefit of the Doubt ? 

[Dionysus 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

What were McVeigh & Mackay doing before Worthy turned up?  They certainly were not first team regulars.

[/quote]

No, but they were both at bigger clubs. McVeigh looked OK from the time he was signed - I don''t believe he has actually improved much at all. Admittedly, Worthington did improve Mackay''s fitness which made him a better player.

Branston - personally I think Ashton went backwards during his time with us. I couldn''t believe that we received such a large bid but obviously West Ham saw the potential and felt they were able to undo what Worthington had done.

[0peteddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Give it to you all of the time blah3x, you will come into the light eventually and bring Dicky and Herb with you to a Worthy wake (date Sept 06).

[Tacklebury 0]

[quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[/quote]

He did well despite Worthy rather than because of in my opinion
[/quote]

So, hang on - if things are going wrong, it''s Worthy''s fault, but if players improve it wasn''t down to Worthington. You can''t have it both ways - you could just accept that, whilst he''s lucky to still be in the job, he still gets the occasional thing right. How can Ashton improve without Worthy''s help? He played in his team for 12 months! Surely any improvement during that time is a direct result of Worthington...

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Its just taken Worthless all summer to realise Howard and Hulse are out of our price range .... the man is a complete liability. [/quote]

It''s easy to make incorrect assumptions when you have little or no possession of the facts.  Ever tried Benefit of the Doubt ? 

[/quote]

did you here Worthy''s interview??  Plan A was Hulse, Plan B was Howard (for whom we made a derisory offer), Plan C???  well he doesn''t have one.....  It has taken the club 6 weeks to attempt to sign these 2 players!!

If the best the club can come up with is Hulse or Howard then god help us........  Do we have scouts??  If so what do they do?  Go and watch Howard and Hulse no doubt....

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Tacklebury"][quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[/quote]

He did well despite Worthy rather than because of in my opinion
[/quote]

So, hang on - if things are going wrong, it''s Worthy''s fault, but if players improve it wasn''t down to Worthington. You can''t have it both ways - you could just accept that, whilst he''s lucky to still be in the job, he still gets the occasional thing right. How can Ashton improve without Worthy''s help? He played in his team for 12 months! Surely any improvement during that time is a direct result of Worthington...

[/quote]

Ashton looked a far worse player when he left than when he arrived,  Probably due to morale more than anythimg Worthington did or didn''t do.

I don''t feel McVeigh has come on in any way.  He is as good now as he was when he turned up, probably fitter as he now plays games.  As with Nedergaard, the genius that was Brian Hamilton just never picked him.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

You have to say that Ashton played well whilst in the Premiership but slipped back when we came down into the Championship.   The world was watching him in the Premiership & he wanted to stake his claim to be a Premiership quality player - which I believe he did.   It was pretty obvious from his attitude that he wasn''t going to stick around in the Championship unless we were challenging for promotion.   So I don''t believe that Worthington had ANY influence on his performance at all....

[Ginja 43]

[quote user="Tacklebury"][quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[/quote]He did well despite Worthy rather than because of in my opinion[/quote]

So, hang on - if things are going wrong, it''s Worthy''s fault, but if players improve it wasn''t down to Worthington. You can''t have it both ways - you could just accept that, whilst he''s lucky to still be in the job, he still gets the occasional thing right. How can Ashton improve without Worthy''s help? He played in his team for 12 months! Surely any improvement during that time is a direct result of Worthington...

[/quote]Ashton is a quality player and would have done well regardless of the manger/team etc. People don''t actually need other people to make improvement, for example at Uni there were a few units I did well in despite having poor lecturers, alot of my improvement and good grades were down to my hard work and I think its the same with Ashton. I personally think he would have been alot better under different management.

[Northern Canary 0]

Have to agree. Its shocking how our whole summer has been focussed on two players, and worse, two strikers when we have such a poor midfield aswel.

[Tacklebury 0]

[quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Tacklebury"][quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[/quote]

He did well despite Worthy rather than because of in my opinion
[/quote]

So, hang on - if things are going wrong, it''s Worthy''s fault, but if players improve it wasn''t down to Worthington. You can''t have it both ways - you could just accept that, whilst he''s lucky to still be in the job, he still gets the occasional thing right. How can Ashton improve without Worthy''s help? He played in his team for 12 months! Surely any improvement during that time is a direct result of Worthington...

[/quote]

Ashton is a quality player and would have done well regardless of the manger/team etc. People don''t actually need other people to make improvement, for example at Uni there were a few units I did well in despite having poor lecturers, alot of my improvement and good grades were down to my hard work and I think its the same with Ashton. I personally think he would have been alot better under different management.
[/quote]

Almost everything that''s gone wrong over the last couple of seasons has, rightly, been blamed on Worthington - his poor signings, bizarre tactics, poor quality of football. He is ultimately responsible for everything that''s gone wrong on the pitch. So, if we''re going to blame him for that, we must also acknowledge when he gets things right, which is what you refuse to do when you say that Ashton improved "despite Worthy rather than because of...". Ashton came here a bright young talent that many weren''t prepared to risk in the Premiership. Worthington took that risk where others weren''t so bold - and it nearly kept us up - then sells him 12 months later for more than twice what we paid for him. He came here a young hopeful (signed by Worthy), and left a player who''d proven his ability at the highest level (having been played by Worthy). Surely that''s an improvement? Whilst he''s done a lot wrong, I think credit should be given where it''s due.

 

[Ginja 43]

[quote user="Tacklebury"]

Almost everything that''s gone wrong over the last couple of seasons has, rightly, been blamed on Worthington - his poor signings, bizarre tactics, poor quality of football. He is ultimately responsible for everything that''s gone wrong on the pitch. So, if we''re going to blame him for that, we must also acknowledge when he gets things right, which is what you refuse to do when you say that Ashton improved "despite Worthy rather than because of...". Ashton came here a bright young talent that many weren''t prepared to risk in the Premiership. Worthington took that risk where others weren''t so bold - and it nearly kept us up - then sells him 12 months later for more than twice what we paid for him. He came here a young hopeful (signed by Worthy), and left a player who''d proven his ability at the highest level (having been played by Worthy). Surely that''s an improvement? Whilst he''s done a lot wrong, I think credit should be given where it''s due.

[/quote]No fair enough credit where its due to Worthy, he gambled where others wouldn''t and Ashton turned out to be an excellent signing and a good investment. He certainly has improved and moved up a knotch or two in the last year, but I still don''t believe any of it was due to Worthy, more the fact that Ashton is a very hard working talented player that deserves at least most of the credit for getting where he is today and any other credit I would give to the coaching staff but that is just my opinion whether its correct is of course debatable.

[yellow hammer 131]

Would you really pay one million for a thirty-year old Luton striker? The Hatters are trying to cash in on an old player with one year left on his contract. This is a guy with nothing left to prove except to find some club gullible enough to beef up his retirement fund.

Fortunately NCFC weren''t buying it.

 

Yellow Hammer

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Tacklebury"][quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Tacklebury"][quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[quote user="ridgeman"]I''m still trying to work out how many players have improved under Worthington and I can''t think of one! Plenty have gone backwards.[/quote]

...this would be why we signed Ashton for £3.5m and sold him for £7.25m, would it?  Not sure he improved that much under us, but people inside the game clearly think he did!!

[/quote]

He did well despite Worthy rather than because of in my opinion
[/quote]

So, hang on - if things are going wrong, it''s Worthy''s fault, but if players improve it wasn''t down to Worthington. You can''t have it both ways - you could just accept that, whilst he''s lucky to still be in the job, he still gets the occasional thing right. How can Ashton improve without Worthy''s help? He played in his team for 12 months! Surely any improvement during that time is a direct result of Worthington...

[/quote]

Ashton is a quality player and would have done well regardless of the manger/team etc. People don''t actually need other people to make improvement, for example at Uni there were a few units I did well in despite having poor lecturers, alot of my improvement and good grades were down to my hard work and I think its the same with Ashton. I personally think he would have been alot better under different management.
[/quote]

Almost everything that''s gone wrong over the last couple of seasons has, rightly, been blamed on Worthington - his poor signings, bizarre tactics, poor quality of football. He is ultimately responsible for everything that''s gone wrong on the pitch. So, if we''re going to blame him for that, we must also acknowledge when he gets things right, which is what you refuse to do when you say that Ashton improved "despite Worthy rather than because of...". Ashton came here a bright young talent that many weren''t prepared to risk in the Premiership. Worthington took that risk where others weren''t so bold - and it nearly kept us up - then sells him 12 months later for more than twice what we paid for him. He came here a young hopeful (signed by Worthy), and left a player who''d proven his ability at the highest level (having been played by Worthy). Surely that''s an improvement? Whilst he''s done a lot wrong, I think credit should be given where it''s due.

 

[/quote]

When we bought Ashton he was scoring goals for fun under Dario Gradi and a not great Crewe side.

He was NOT a young hopeful. You don`t pay 3 million for young hopefuls

As for the transfer fee, as I have pointed out many times.

If you take out the 3 million we paid PLUS Ashtons wages and bonuses, Agent fees for both transfers PLUS the sell on money Crewe recieved from the West Ham money, we were not left with as much profit as people think.

Truthfully I can`t say that Ashton was any better a player when he left for West ham than the one we bought who scored 20 goals in half a season in the championship for Crewe.

I don`t know why Worthy should get credit for "taking a chance" on Ashton.

Lets recall history, we were in relegation Prem do-do in Jan 05

He needed to do something to turn things around and Ashton was the best thing available at the price we could afford.

(any proven prem striker would have cost almost twice as much)

Its not like he had a ton of choices in the transfer window.

Its not like he picked Ashton out of obscurity, we paid 3 million.

 

 

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

did you here Worthy''s interview??  Plan A was Hulse, Plan B was Howard (for whom we made a derisory offer), Plan C???  well he doesn''t have one.....  It has taken the club 6 weeks to attempt to sign these 2 players!!

If the best the club can come up with is Hulse or Howard then god help us........  Do we have scouts??  If so what do they do?  Go and watch Howard and Hulse no doubt....

[/quote]

The most worrying thing from the interview for me was Worthy''s obvious disappointment at the fact that the club were not close to matching the fee Derby paid.  This kind of suggests to me that had it been down to Worthy he would have paid £1m for Howard.

[Northern Canary 0]

I actually thought that Dean got worse last season, probably due to having no service.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,221]

I for one am glad we did not buy Howard for £1M, I can understand why he was a transfer target and if we had got him for a nominal fee then fine. I would be more than happy for us to get a couple of season long loans, as long as they fill the positions we lack real quality in. I still think we will sign someone though, we just have to be patient.... 

[mystic megson 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

did you here Worthy''s interview??  Plan A was Hulse, Plan B was Howard (for whom we made a derisory offer), Plan C???  well he doesn''t have one.....  It has taken the club 6 weeks to attempt to sign these 2 players!!

If the best the club can come up with is Hulse or Howard then god help us........  Do we have scouts??  If so what do they do?  Go and watch Howard and Hulse no doubt....

[/quote]

The most worrying thing from the interview for me was Worthy''s obvious disappointment at the fact that the club were not close to matching the fee Derby paid.  This kind of suggests to me that had it been down to Worthy he would have paid £1m for Howard.

[/quote]

The key question is not "What is he worth?" but "What is he worth . . . to us?".  It depends what he would have done for us, and that''s where the manager''s judgement comes into play. 

For example, if the addition of Howard to the squad could have made the difference between finishing in the playoffs or just outside, then £1 million might well have been a price worth paying.  If he could have given us a fighting chance of an automatic place, £1 million would have been a bargain.  If  he could have brought the best out of Earnie, thus making the little fella feel more like staying and raising team morale generally, it would also have been worth a punt IMO.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Hucks baffled by lack of signings

Worthy admitted that City''s own offer for Howard had fallen way short  of the eventual price paid by new Rams boss Billy Davies for the former Hartlepool man, his first signing since arriving at Pride Park.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/sport/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=Sport&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=sport&itemid=NOED24%20Jul%202006%2011%3A31%3A44%3A683

Even the players are concerned about the lack of transfer activity