Roll on next wedensday! Worthless out!

[BRAVEHEART 0]

Well concerning the issue of Worthington I think that some of who are short-sighted you ask why we should keep him, the reason we should keep him is because of the bigger picture overall i.e. WORTHYS RECORD.

 You have to take a step backwards and look at what hes achieved overall. Worthington''s record overall rates as average (3/6) if you look at his record on paper of what hes achieved and analyse it properly - in other words 3 good and bad. Below is his record in his time at the club;

 

WORTHINGTONS RECORD

2006/2005 - Failed to achieve promotion          - Poor

2005/2004 - Relegation from the premiership     - Poor

2004/2003 - Promotion to the Premiership         - Good

2003/2002 - Missed out on play-offs                - Poor

2002/2001 - Got to play-off final                      - Good

2001/2000 - Saved us from Relegation               - Good

WORTHINGTONS RECORD OVERALL - 3/6 = AVERAGE

> TO TIP THE SCALES HE NEEDS ONE MORE SEASON TO DECIDE IF HIS RECORD IS GOOD OR BAD OVERALL.

 

This season will be the 7th hes been in charge, making it the crucial season because this will tip the scales in terms of how the board percieve his record, if he does poor it will be 4 poor seasons and 3 good ones, but if he does well it will be the other way around. Now I personally believe every season is a new season and in my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we can''t give Worthy 10 games, because he''s done it before and could do it again - Like I said just because it was 3 years ago doesn''t mean he can''t do it again - he is capable don''t write off JUST YET. If Worthington fails to deliver in the first 10 games, then I will consider joining the Worthy Outers, BUT if the season is going good which it could well do then I shall remain ''in between''. 

Worthingtons record is the very reason we should wait because he can take us up. You can''t just write him off before we''ve even kicked a ball. And also someone mentioned about having a protest well whats the point in protesting before the season''s started ?, theres just no logic to it. Okay so we''ve not signed any players BUT it wouldn''t surprise me if we did sign someone within the next few days, if you read what Doncaster said.

The last point I would like to make is about change one poster said that theres been no change, well that depends on what you''re talking about are you saying about the lack of signings ? - If so then I''d agree theres been no change, but if you''re saying that the performances haven''t improved well then i disagree with you because we had a great run of 7 games unbeaten at home and even won away.

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="beelsie"]You can point to other manager changes and show the opposite results.  Any way let''s hope you are not considering Liverpool in the same breath as Norwich, They have double the regular fan base,and twice the team depth under both the managers.[/quote]

Obviously it''s not a direct comparison, and was by no means a way of saying we should definitely change managers. I was just trying to point out that whilst there is a risk in changing managers, it can also reap major rewards without seriously changing the team.  The point is, you just never know and the possibility of failure is no reason not to change.

[Mook 0]

By the same token, DoC, Newcastle United were starting to falter under Bobby Robson and the fans didn''t like his signings.

So Freddy Shepherd sacked him and recruited Graeme Souness! It can work both ways. And before anyone reads the following post and starts on about Glenn Roeder, lets see how he gets on in his first full season before we laud him as a success...

[Evil Monkey 52]

You''re right, certainly. But again I don''t think the point has been spotted, and I apologise if I''ve not been clear on this - I''m not saying changing manager guarantees success, I''m just saying that the potential for it to not work out is no reason to suggest that we shouldn''t change. 

There seem to be a few on here who are supporting Worthy simply because they''re too scared that we could end up with a Souness instead of a Benitez! Kinda like not crossing the street in case you get run over by the car in the distance...

Besides Souness is an extreme case - I mean, it''s Souness for chrissakes!

[king of latvia 0]

WORTHINGTONS RECORD

2006/2005 - Failed to achieve promotion          - Poor

how many players did we have out injuried,how many changes did we have to the team.

2005/2004 - Relegation from the premiership     - Poor

how many teams stay up after getting promotted.

2004/2003 - Promotion to the Premiership         - Good

for a team like ours this has to be excellent and lets get real.

2003/2002 - Missed out on play-offs                - Poor

yes i agree we could of done better

2002/2001 - Got to play-off final                      - Good

how many of you expected this

2001/2000 - Saved us from Relegation               - Good

where would we be know if this didnt happen div 1 or 2

please get real and get behind the team.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

We need to decide what we want.   Average football, average management, average expectations?   Or do we want the best of everything?

Sure he''s had a couple of good seasons but the absolute mediocrity of the other seasons mean that these pale into insignificance.

He needs to make a very quick impression this season, if not, it''s going to be a very long, very hard and possibly very bitter season.

[Evil Monkey 52]

"how many teams stay up after getting promoted (sic)"

West Ham, Wigan, Portsmouth, Bolton, Charlton... only a few examples, admittedly, but the difference is that these teams had very good, tactically astute managers who made great signings to keep them up.  Most of them didn''t even have particularly large transfer budgets, to my knowledge, Wigan''s millions and West Ham''s desire to get themselves further into debt aside.

[Mook 0]

DoC, that''s not my reasoning for wanting Worthy to stay. In fact, I don''t really want him to stay at all! But I have watched us from the Stringer era, and can remember a lot of false dawns under a lot of new and "exciting" managerial reigns.

My two reasons for keeping Worthington are these -

1, We have the nucleus of a good squad, I''m sure of that. IF another manager was to come in, we can write off this season and possibly the season after that due to "squad building" and other such excuses.

2, I''m not sure the candidate we are looking for is out there. Obviously I would love O''Neill to come back but that ain''t happening, I would''ve liked Burley but we''re not a big enough club. In this case it''s better the Devil you know, rather than gamble on a possibility.

Another season of bad football and I''ll be waving my placards too - but I don''t think the board will stand for that either.

[nh_ncfc 0]

Couldn''t of put it better, Mook! :D

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Temp the Revelator"]

Where is your evidence that ''many of the players don''t rate him''?  I''m not saying that''s not the case, but a little more than hearsay would be good if you are using this to back up your argument.

[/quote]

Many people whom are freinds with a player or those close to the club have said numerous times that there are 2 camps in the norwich dressing room.  Worthy and his band of merry men, and the rest.  Its probably no different to any other club with a poor man-manager.  I chatted to a couple of the clubs employees outside the ground late after the Brighton game and they said the divide about Worthy ran right through the staff at carrow road.

The divide runs through the whole club, fanbase, local media (Kevin Piper wants him out, Richard Balls, Steve Gedge, Chris Goreham, even Neil Adams as much as admitted it towards the end of last season), probably even in the boardroom (although when you are weighing up paying half a million to sack him it must affect your decision).  Even the most conservative fan group in the league: the NCISA want him gone, forces2canaries, Yarmouth Yellas.  having said that none of the above are true supporters, or so some grey haired fool commented.

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="king of latvia"]

WORTHINGTONS RECORD

2006/2005 - Failed to achieve promotion          - Poor

how many players did we have out injuried,how many changes did we have to the team.

2005/2004 - Relegation from the premiership     - Poor

how many teams stay up after getting promotted.

2004/2003 - Promotion to the Premiership         - Good

for a team like ours this has to be excellent and lets get real.

2003/2002 - Missed out on play-offs                - Poor

yes i agree we could of done better

2002/2001 - Got to play-off final                      - Good

how many of you expected this

2001/2000 - Saved us from Relegation               - Good

where would we be know if this didnt happen div 1 or 2

please get real and get behind the team.

[/quote]

 

I love how tyhe KTF`s praise the good and make excuses for the bad.

We were pre-season favs with the bookies yet and one stage looked to b falling into the relegation battle.

The injury excuse includes players like LJ who never really played for us anyway.

Managers are judged on their recent record not 3 years ago. Maybe the Sunderland manager should still have a job?

Can even one KTF say we played attractive football last year?

As for results, we won more games when the crowd started turning negative with chants and protests.

(seems like the fans are better at player motivation than Worthington) 

Overall Worthy has bought poorly, is tactically inept, played unattractive football and has most importantly delivered poor results.

Worthy needs to go before we get relegated.

 

 

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

Many people whom are freinds with a player or those close to the club have said numerous times that there are 2 camps in the norwich dressing room. [/quote]

Care to provide sources? Otherwise its just rumour chit chat.

I mean if many people have said things numerous times, you''ll have something to back that up with, right?

[beno27 0]

[quote user="Temp the Revelator"]For God''s sake Paul - change the record, eh?[/quote]

Change the record that is NW

[Mook 0]

USA Canary.

Can you actually ever post anything without referring to the ridiculous KTF WO thing? It''s really embarrassing.

Stop telling me who I am and what I believe!!! I find it incredibly insulting.

I am no Keep The Faither, having wanted rid of Worthington since halfway through the Prem season. HOWEVER, we have no better alternative and by trying to get him out at the start of a new season we will do more harm than good to our promotion prospects.

USA Canary - respond to this post without mentioning the word KTF - I bet you struggle.

[alex_ncfc 675]

"HOWEVER, we have no better alternative and by trying to get him out at the start of a new season we will do more harm than good to our promotion prospects."

Personally, I believe keeping Worthless in charge will do more harm than good to our "promotion prospects"...

[lucky green trainers 0]

i''m prepared to put my opposition to worthy to one side for the greater good of city.  however, i''m disappointed he hasn''t seen fit to issue a rallying call to get the supporters onside. it seems he''s made his position clear with his ''real supporter'' statements, but now surely its time he changed his approach and swallowed his pride and reached out to the whole fan base.cold shouldering significant numbers of fans is not in the best interest of NCFC or ultimately himself.so speak up nigel, doing your talking out on the pitch isn''t good enough.

[Mook 0]

I can''t be arsed discussing it. He''s here, he''ll start the season and you lot will have to get used to it for at least two months.

Enjoy.

[Mello Yello 2,321]

[quote user="Mook"]

I can''t be arsed discussing it. He''s here, he''ll start the season and you lot will have to get used to it for at least two months.

Enjoy.

[/quote]

I reckon it will be less than 2 ''munfs'' - and I think that the crowd swellin'' "competitive friendlies" will also be an influence towards his future as manger of NCFC......Maybe there is an element of truth? That the board are reluctant to release funds - till they see how we fare at the start of the season. [:O]

[beelsie 0]

P.S. I think we all want the best of everything, But IMHO City is not yet, especially now, at the point where we can have everything. For me the first thing we need is a team that can play consistent football for a complete season.  I say that when we went into the prem, we were lucky and looking at our defensive mistakes and over deep play, we were extremely lucky not to have lost at least seven more of our matches quite heavily.  We went up and were never ready at any time, we used the same tactics and were an overwhelmed and disillusioned side, the lack of form continued to the Fulham non event.  The reasons were that enough cash was not released early enough for squad strengthening to increase the squad depth in quality to keep us up, at that time we could have had good players who would have wanted to come to have wanted to try themselves on the top stage. I can assure us all that that was not Worthy''s fault.  Strike while the iron was hot and when there is a following wind should have been our aim.  Three more good quality players, as now were wanted, and I am convinced that we would have still been there. Had they been acquired I expect that Francis would have still been here because he and other players would have been able to sense a glimpse of ambition from the board.  We would not have broken the bank. We would not be having these depressing posts and the discontent that we now witness.  You see the same things have been wrong at the club for four seasons at least.

[beelsie 0]

DOC I take your points on board and my point is that we are so near a solution and if the board can see fit to loosen the purse strings a bit more to allow Worthy the chance to by who he wants that will bring us success.  After all he was the judge who decided what was necessary to get us up before, if more ambition had been shown by our board at that time two of those players would most likely still have been here Peter Crouch look at his value now and others.

[Misery Guts 0]

reluctant or skint ? I hope they''re not reluctant because if they don''t want to give him money to spend they should sack him ! I hope he''s out before 2 months unless of course, he''s turned it round and we''re top of the leauge playing , nice passing football ... still we can dream

[TwoSheds 0]

''So near a solution''    I would like to know what that is? We are no nearer sorting this mess out than we were a year ago.

The only solution is for the worthless one to walk,and if the rumors are true let wolves have him. After all they have a good record of crap managers!

This is getting beyond a joke. It has devided this message board right down the middle,and how many posters are on here really

[beelsie 0]

Three players off a solution,  whoever is the manager.

[xxxx 0]

Without doubt the most hated Norwich manager in history and the crowd will let him know it as soon as the season starts.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

I can''t be arsed discussing it. He''s here, he''ll start the season and you lot will have to get used to it for at least two months.

Enjoy.

[/quote]

It''s not what a lot wanted Mook but what you say is true. If he was going he would of gone already and he will be in charge for at least two months of the season.  No amount of Worthy Out flags/banners/cards/protests are going to change the boards mind at this stage. 

The only way anyone would have affected the boards thinking was if season ticket sales fell dramatically and they didn''t.  200 left and no doubt they will be snapped-up once we sign a player.  I admire twosheds conviction for continuing with his beliefs but the idea of turning up at a pre-season friendly with a Worthy Out flag is hardly going to worry the board - they have your money now!

[Syteanric 1]

saying that worthy is an average manger because he has had 3 good seasons and 3 poor ones doesnt work at all.

 Take a team like Charlton under Curbs, or Bolton under Fat Sam.. these 2 managers were being linked with England and being called big managers last season.. yet season after season of mid table finish and an empty trophy cabinet, wouldnt, under your reckoning, make them extremely poor managers?

Take Manchester untied under Fergie from 1985-1992 they won nothing of note under him.... then they dominated the game for years in this country.... in the past few seasons again they have won nothing.... im willing to bet Fergie has more "winless seasons" now then those he has won during the 90''s./.. would he be a bad manager or a godo one under your theory?

This neither supports nor defends Worthless but does look at a slightly flawed method of judging someone.

jas :)

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Without doubt the most hated Norwich manager in history[/quote]

You have a very short memory.

[Matthew Quinn 0]

The difference between Worthington and the 2 examples that you mention is that for Charlton and Bolton finishing in mid table is a great achievment given the size of their clubs and I think moist realistic fans of those clubs would recognise that. I think it''s fair to say that Norwich have underpeformed badly last season and arguably the season before. The Alex Ferguson example isn''t neccesarily relevant either. Ferguson started badly but was rightly given time to turn the situation around and did so sucessfully. Worthington on the other hand started well at Norwich but it would now appear that his management is getting consistently worse. I don''t think Worthington is an average manager so much as one who is no longer able, for whatever reason, to get the best out of his players. Generally you make some good points Jas but I thought I would point a few things out.

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

saying that worthy is an average manger because he has had 3 good seasons and 3 poor ones doesnt work at all.

 Take a team like Charlton under Curbs, or Bolton under Fat Sam.. these 2 managers were being linked with England and being called big managers last season.. yet season after season of mid table finish and an empty trophy cabinet, wouldnt, under your reckoning, make them extremely poor managers?

Take Manchester untied under Fergie from 1985-1992 they won nothing of note under him.... then they dominated the game for years in this country.... in the past few seasons again they have won nothing.... im willing to bet Fergie has more "winless seasons" now then those he has won during the 90''s./.. would he be a bad manager or a godo one under your theory?

This neither supports nor defends Worthless but does look at a slightly flawed method of judging someone.

jas :)

[/quote]