Man City

[Carrow89 185]

Man City face 115 charges which will be heard at an independent hearing, which is set to start on Monday. Reading the report below there are certainly some questionable acts - and that is putting it mildly.

However, from what I gather (Leicester) the financial rules drafted up by the PL are not water tight.  So, maybe City's lawyers will find a loophole, or two.

If though they are found guilty, perhaps not all charges, it will be a defining moment for the P.L. Should they fail to impose the maximum sanction it will reinforce the notion that not only is the PL spineless, but that lack of authority has encouraged others to bend the rules.

Whichever way, the next couple of months should prove to be very interesting, if not entertaining, as all the gory details are brought out into the open.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c74j4z10w97o

 

[splendidrush 720]

They'll get away with whatever they've done, they're Man City, if it looks like it's going against them they'll front up some cash to make it all go away.

The worst will be a points deduction..... but not enough to stop them qualifying for the Champions League next season....

...but what do I know 🤔?

[Old Shuck 291]

It amuses me (not very much at all) that there is talk of 'punishing' them by relegation to the Championship.

Which is, of course,, a 'punishment' to all the clubs at that level as that's a promotion spot taken up for the following season that one of them might have had.

It's like when a PL ref is deemed to have officiated badly, he is then demoted to the Championship for a game or two. So they're saying he doesn't come up to their standards but its OK for him to referee at that level? That's taking the proverbial.

If the PL decide to relegate Man City to the Champs or below, the Football League should refuse to accept their membership of same--why is it acceptsble for them to impose their cheats on someone else? That'd  make things interesting. 

[dylanisabaddog 6,143]

The charges include 15 counts of failing to deduct tax from payments to staff. That is fraud and carries a potential prison sentence for those responsible. 

Those are extremely serious charges and I doubt they have been made lightly. It is alleged that Mancini, the former manager, received half his salary tax free and that was paid in Saudi Arabia. 

There is a precedent. In 2007, three staff at Boston United were taken to court for the same offence. Two received suspended prison sentences and Steve Evans, the manager, was found not guilty. Boston were relegated. 

I suspect that the punishment will be so severe that City will appeal and it will all be dragged out for at least another year. 

The difficulty that City have is the involvement of HMRC. If HMRC takes criminal action then the Premier League will be in a difficult position. It may be of course that City have already reached a financial settlement with HMRC but I doubt it. 

It should be noted that City were found guilty by UEFA of most of the offences but won an appeal on the basis that the evidence used against them was stolen. 

My opinion is that supporters of other clubs should show their feelings by refusing to attend any fixtures involving Manchester City. 

I'm sure most clubs bend the rules but stealing huge amounts of tax is unacceptable. It damages all of us. 

[chicken 3,086]

Man City ownership are not football fans. They'll find any loophole they can to squirm their way out of situations.

Like the sponsorship fiasco which essentially set up the club for the success they then had. I believe that loophole was then closed... but only after they'd thrown something like £400m through it.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

5 hours ago, Old Shuck said:

Which is, of course,, a 'punishment' to all the clubs at that level as that's a promotion spot taken up for the following season that one of them might have had.

But one of them gets an automatic place in the Premier League to replace Man City, and then there are two left to fight over the season after. Not really any different to just competing for three places. 

If the Premier League excludes them, and the EFL accepts them, it's in the EFL's interests to put them in League Two, to get three years out of them instead of one. I can't see it happening unfortunately, but that would be the ideal scenario.

[Nuff Said 5,962]

55 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

But one of them gets an automatic place in the Premier League to replace Man City, and then there are two left to fight over the season after. Not really any different to just competing for three places. 

If the Premier League excludes them, and the EFL accepts them, it's in the EFL's interests to put them in League Two, to get three years out of them instead of one. I can't see it happening unfortunately, but that would be the ideal scenario.

But one team that would have been promoted from the league below will lose out?

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

10 hours ago, Carrow89 said:

Man City face 115 charges which will be heard at an independent hearing, which is set to start on Monday. Reading the report below there are certainly some questionable acts - and that is putting it mildly.

However, from what I gather (Leicester) the financial rules drafted up by the PL are not water tight.  So, maybe City's lawyers will find a loophole, or two.

If though they are found guilty, perhaps not all charges, it will be a defining moment for the P.L. Should they fail to impose the maximum sanction it will reinforce the notion that not only is the PL spineless, but that lack of authority has encouraged others to bend the rules.

Whichever way, the next couple of months should prove to be very interesting, if not entertaining, as all the gory details are brought out into the open.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c74j4z10w97o

 

 

Well, I know what I'm expecting...

[If wed kept Howie.. 300]

they should reassess the "fit and proper" test annually, not just when there is a change of ownership

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

59 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

But one team that would have been promoted from the league below will lose out?

No. Hypothetically, in the unlikely situation Man City get relegated to the Championship, it would just be a straight swap between Man City and the team who were relegated from the Premier League in 18th place. Nobody else would be affected.

[shefcanary 2,955]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

Let's hope it accelerates the formation of a truly separate European Super League, with Citeh banned from the EPL and joining the mega clubs from other countries, giving a restart to English football!

🤔

[Ray 111]

54 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

No. Hypothetically, in the unlikely situation Man City get relegated to the Championship, it would just be a straight swap between Man City and the team who were relegated from the Premier League in 18th place. Nobody else would be affected.

That is correct, however assuming Man City will be nailed on for promotion because even if all their first teamers left their youngsters would probably walk the league, youngsters they have because of their (ill gotten?) wealth, therefore essentially there is only one promotion place up for grabs, so the team finishing third would be in the playoffs instead of autos and the team finishing 7th would not be in the playoffs???

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

Well, I know what I'm expecting...

Everton deducted 12 points?

[Robert N. LiM 6,282]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Everton deducted 12 points?

I'd be up for that.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

That is correct, however assuming Man City will be nailed on for promotion because even if all their first teamers left their youngsters would probably walk the league, youngsters they have because of their (ill gotten?) wealth, therefore essentially there is only one promotion place up for grabs, so the team finishing third would be in the playoffs instead of autos and the team finishing 7th would not be in the playoffs???

Are you referring to League Two? If so, that wouldn't be affected if Man City were only relegated to the Championship.

[Ray 111]

8 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Are you referring to League Two? If so, that wouldn't be affected if Man City were only relegated to the Championship.

No, the Championship, but my brain is starting to hurt so what I said could be a load of go nads.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

11 minutes ago, Ray said:

No, the Championship, but my brain is starting to hurt so what I said could be a load of go nads.

Well, in that case, what you've described is what already happens. Third is the playoffs and seventh misses out.

[Ray 111]

11 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Well, in that case, what you've described is what already happens. Third is the playoffs and seventh misses out.

The point I was making was as follows, assuming Man City drop into the Championship, then that pretty much takes away an auto spot full stop, etc.  I know that only 2 get autos but at least there is normally a fair fight, in essence it would make it a 23 team league with only one auto, without Man City the 'normal' Championship teams will be fighting over 2 autos and teams 3rd to  6th would getting playoffs, therefore 6 'normal' Championship teams in with a chance of promotion, a 3 in 6 chance.  If Man City were in the Championship then only 5 'normal' Championship teams would be fighting over 2 promotion spots.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,616]

3 hours ago, Ray said:

The point I was making was as follows, assuming Man City drop into the Championship, then that pretty much takes away an auto spot full stop, etc.  I know that only 2 get autos but at least there is normally a fair fight, in essence it would make it a 23 team league with only one auto, without Man City the 'normal' Championship teams will be fighting over 2 autos and teams 3rd to  6th would getting playoffs, therefore 6 'normal' Championship teams in with a chance of promotion, a 3 in 6 chance.  If Man City were in the Championship then only 5 'normal' Championship teams would be fighting over 2 promotion spots.

Ah, in that case, you'd be correct, assuming Man City finish top. But the 'other' promotion place would've already been to given to another team, who otherwise would've been in the Championship, in the courts before the season starts. 

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

I can't see how Man City could be thrown out of the Premier League as it will create a dangerous precedent, plus the EPL and EFL are essentially separate jurisdictions. Even a 60pt deduction would still give them a reasonable chance of survival.

Imagine Man City and Everton being relegated and the Binners surviving on account of the EPL finally having the balls to take on Man City. Except they won't as this could take years to sort out.

[Ray 111]

3 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Ah, in that case, you'd be correct, assuming Man City finish top. But the 'other' promotion place would've already been to given to another team, who otherwise would've been in the Championship, in the courts before the season starts. 

Unless only one other team is relegated from the Prem?

[Ray 111]

Meant 2 other teams😯

[dylanisabaddog 6,143]

21 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

 

Imagine Man City and Everton being relegated and the Binners surviving on account of the EPL finally having the balls to take on Man City. Except they won't as this could take years to sort out.

The stuff of nightmares 

[Ulfotto 798]

I guess the question is if they are innocent which I guess what there lawyers will plead and pep has been keen to say innocent until proven guilty. Why are 35 of charges failure to cooperate with the Premier League. Why are they not cooperating if they have nothing to hide.

Edited September 14 by Ulfotto

[dylanisabaddog 6,143]

9 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

I guess the question is if they are innocent which I guess what there lawyers will plead and pep has been keen to say innocent until proven guilty. Why are 35 of charges failure to cooperate with the Premier League. Why are they not cooperating if they have nothing to hide.

They were fund guilty on a lot of counts by UEFA but won an appeal because UEFA used evidence which had been stolen by a computer hacker. It seems unlikely that the Premier League will find them not guilty based on the same evidence. The solicitors acting for the Premier League seem to think that the stolen evidence isn't a problem this time but City will obviously try the same appeal tactic again. 

But to answer your question, in my opinion the owners have over many years become used to doing exactly as they please and don't share your morals. In fact they show no sign of having any conscience whatsoever. Combine that attitude with unlimited money and solicitors prepared to do their bidding and you can see what the authorities are up against. 

[Canary73 327]

This is where you need a regulator with sufficient enforcement powers. I see UEFA are trying to step in and prevent its establishment on the grounds that it is government interference. If there were sufficient arms length arrangements within the FA, Premier League, EFL and other leagues it wouldn't be needed. The fact is the protection of the game for fans and most clubs is broken and that regulation is needed, especially to stop lawyers looking for loopholes. I'd quite happily forego participation in the Euros and World Cup if we had strong governance in our domestic game. The decisions reached in the Manchester City case need to be full and final and not subject to endless appeals.

[Newtopia 573]

On 13/09/2024 at 19:10, If wed kept Howie.. said:

they should reassess the "fit and proper" test annually, not just when there is a change of ownership

That is impossible to do, and toothless.  You can't make someone sell their assets because some else doesn't like their values.