****Official Match Thread - Norwich v Bristol City****

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026]

Sara/McLean once again in tandem in midfield was back to the bad old days of Sept-Nov with our midfield left wide open.

Rowe clearly must start, so 'if' we get to the playoffs where we will face superior opposition (unless its ipswich) ,the only thing we can do is to bring Sara inside for Barnes to get another number in the midfield area.

[GenerationA47 834]

1 hour ago, Conrad said:

I don't think that many thought that we would. 

Wahoo.

In that case my comment was for the few, not the many. 

Which group are you in?

[mannings bandy legs 439]

3 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

Why when we need to go for the win does Wagner takes off Barnes and puts on a midfielder, not SVH.

He absolutely will not play him. 

 Go three up front Just try it. Try and win a game that we don't look like winning. Just try..........guess this is why this fella won't be here next season,regardless.

 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,577]

22 minutes ago, chicken said:

I don't get this VH love in at this point. It wasn't attacking we had overall problem with, but ball retention and use. People have gone on about how Sorensen is the defensive midfielder (DM, again, NOT CDM, you don't deploy defensive midfielders anywhere other than in a central position, please don't go by FIFA...which appears to use US soccer terminology) and yet, he's brought on to push one of our most creative players further forward, and to win the ball so we can get it to said creative player and that's a negative move.

I think the real issue is who to bring off for a forward player. The choice today was Nunez which meant dropping Sara back into one of the two deeper midfield positions to accommodate Rowe. If it had been Barnes and Sara simply moved inside, I wonder if anyone would have queried it? Yet essentially, that's what happened a little while after.

So, if it had been Barnes for Rowe, with Sara switching inside, and then later on, Sorensen for Nunez - would those who are questioning it, be so confused/angry that a striker wasn't brought on? 

You’re right, and what I find frustrating is that it’s always Nunez in that situation, and never McLean. And that’s not meant to be a McLean criticism, but I don’t see why he’s undroppable in every situation. 

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

16 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Rowe clearly must start

Still not sure I agree with this

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,577]

Today is another game closer to the objective. So everyone should be happy. Bristol City are full of confidence and a point is a decent result. We don’t want walkover games anyway, we need to keep that hard working mentality. We were due one of these anyway, we threatened it against Plymouth. The fact we walked away unbeaten is massive kudos to the teams character. I except a similar game against Swansea.. you can’t win em’ all.

Get them out the way before the playoffs. We’re off to Wembley, I’m convinced. More than that, I can’t promise.

Edited April 20 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

Bit of a shambles today as Sara effective played in 3 different positions.

The McLean Sara combo doesn't work in midfield and I felt for Nunez who went straight down the tunnel when subbed.

Much as I love Rowe when we bring him off the bench it seems to disrupt the whole team if Wagner under no circumstances will take off McLean. 

Thought Duffy and Gibbo weren't particularly solid today. A lot of chances conceded.

 

 

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

3 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Today is another game closer to the objective. So everyone should be happy. Bristol City are full of confidence and a point is a decent result. We don’t want walkover games anyway, we need to keep that hard working mentality. We were due one of these anyway, we threatened it against Plymouth. The fact we walked away unbeaten is massive kudos to the teams character. I except a similar game against Swansea.. you can’t win em’ all.

Get them out the way before the playoffs. We’re off to Wembley, I’m convinced. More than that, I can’t promise.

Exactly how I saw it. We weren't great today. We would have lost this game before Christmas. There's a resilience in this team which is good to see.

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Much as I love Rowe when we bring him off the bench it seems to disrupt the whole team if Wagner under no circumstances will take off McLean. 

Think Wagner needs to choose between Sainz and Rowe, or try Rowe in the ten. Our best player, Sara, is at his most dangerous coming in off the right. We should make the compromise elsewhere.

Personally I'm happy with the starting XI, then bring Rowe on for Sainz. Or, if we're really chasing the game, Rowe on for Barnes. It's about the most effective XI, not necessarily the best eleven players.

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I felt for Nunez who went straight down the tunnel when subbed.

He was back on the bench shortly afterwards if so

[Worthy Nigelton 1,277]

                     Sargent

Sainz.           Barnes.          Rowe

           Nunez.            Sara

This is our best team.

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

Just now, Worthy Nigelton said:

                     Sargent

Sainz.           Barnes.          Rowe

           Nunez.            Sara

This is our best team.

Looks a bit light at the back

[chicken 3,045]

4 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

We need Gunn, for if we speculatively get in the Prem…. Name one other first team member that could hack it?

Kenny?

Sarge?

 

Very few players are nailed on to "hack it" even Gunn. He has already played in the premier league, didn't make the grade at Man City, though a top grade so not much of a measure. He also struggled to really get going at Southampton. I'm not suggesting he isn't "looking" capable, but then I would throw down a list...

Stacey, Sainz, Sara, Rowe, Sargent and Gunn. Add to that Kenny and probably Nunez as others who stand a half decent chance.

I think we have a better squad now than we did last time out in the premier league bar central defence where it's more or less the same but older. I believe we're not a million miles off the Pukki, Cantwell, Buendia premier league season either. We don't have an outright Buendia, but I think the way we play is less dependent on an individual like that, and with Rowe, Sara and Sainz we arguably have three creative players at least as good as Cantwell. Barnes is as good as Stiepermann for my money, and we are slightly better stocked in the central midfield department.

It's interersting. Today was iffy, but I would be inclined to agree with Wagner's comments in that we have a small squad in many ways, carrying a few injuries - though the return of Sorensen and Rowe is much needed with the injury to Gibbs and Hernandez. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,577]

1 hour ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

                     Sargent

Sainz.           Barnes.          Rowe

           Nunez.            Sara

This is our best team.

I don’t rate ‘this’ at left back, much better further forward. ‘is’ ahead of Gibson all day long though.

[Crafty Canary 545]

Coventry and Hull can’t both win all their remaining games as they play each other at Coventry. Coventry also have to play the Binners at home. 

[Jim Smith 2,540]

A draw no disaster given other results and also the way the game played out but I have to say a very poor “back down to earth” performance today, particularly defensively. I just hope it was an off day but at no point did we seem to have our usual intensity and we hardly pressed and  won the ball back up the pitch at all. 
 

To be fair I thought Bristol were impressive and looked a well coached and well drilled unit. Certainly better coached than us anyway. We have better players and the extra quality we have is enough most weeks but when we have an off day we are still far too easy to play through and we got away with such an off day today. 
 

Gunn immense. Thought Sara was decent as well, need to find a way to get him back central again (but without sacrificing Nunez) as he’s wasted out wide. 

[Well b back 3,590]

5 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Are those loud boos I hear at full time?

 

Uh oh the 20 percent are back

It was for the referee ?

[Well b back 3,590]

Quite a strange thing today, of course there will be some but everybody I spoke to at the game had voted Kenny McClean as their POTS, yet on here he is being absoloutely ripped apart. Also everyone that sat near me thought that when Rowe came on we looked that bit weaker, yet on here everybody seems to think he was amazing. Funny old world.

[Well b back 3,590]

22 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Coventry and Hull can’t both win all their remaining games as they play each other at Coventry. Coventry also have to play the Binners at home. 

They both play the binners.

[daly 546]

Completely outplayed today by a mid table team with nothing to play for.

We could easily lost  by 3 clear goals today but for Gunn

 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,497]

3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Bit of a shambles today as Sara effective played in 3 different positions.

The McLean Sara combo doesn't work in midfield and I felt for Nunez who went straight down the tunnel when subbed.

Much as I love Rowe when we bring him off the bench it seems to disrupt the whole team if Wagner under no circumstances will take off McLean. 

Thought Duffy and Gibbo weren't particularly solid today. A lot of chances conceded.

 

 

Rowe should replace Barnes -  

[hogesar 10,536]

4 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

You’re right, and what I find frustrating is that it’s always Nunez in that situation, and never McLean. And that’s not meant to be a McLean criticism, but I don’t see why he’s undroppable in every situation. 

Nunez had given the ball away more unfortunately, and obviously doesn't have the physical side to his game that Mclean does so I think he's always going to be the one that gives way in that specific situation.

[Jim Smith 2,540]

10 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Sara/McLean once again in tandem in midfield was back to the bad old days of Sept-Nov with our midfield left wide open.

Rowe clearly must start, so 'if' we get to the playoffs where we will face superior opposition (unless its ipswich) ,the only thing we can do is to bring Sara inside for Barnes to get another number in the midfield area.

Agreed. But Wagner has a complete blind spot for the midfield or is willing to sacrifice it for the extra striker. If we get there it will be madness to go into the playoff away leg without the extra midfielder in my view. 

[Jim Smith 2,540]

10 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Think Wagner needs to choose between Sainz and Rowe, or try Rowe in the ten. Our best player, Sara, is at his most dangerous coming in off the right. We should make the compromise elsewhere.

Personally I'm happy with the starting XI, then bring Rowe on for Sainz. Or, if we're really chasing the game, Rowe on for Barnes. It's about the most effective XI, not necessarily the best eleven players.

I disagree Sara is at his best coming in off the right. I think he’s isolated out there and we don’t get him on the ball enough 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,577]

7 hours ago, daly said:

Completely outplayed today by a mid table team with nothing to play for.

We could easily lost  by 3 clear goals today but for Gunn

 

That’s not true. We weren’t at our best, sure. 

[DraytonBoy 246]

I thought City looked a bit tentative going forward yesterday and BC had by far the better chances, Gunn was easily MOTM. Another point towards the target but they'll have to play better than that to beat the top four over two legs.

Edited April 21 by DraytonBoy

[Gordon Bennett 901]

We were due a below par home performance at some point, no damage done though as things stand. Back on it v Swansea next week hopefully.

Disagree that mid table teams have nothing to play for, some will have their futures to play for, bonuses, league position etc etc. Bristol City are a decent side and should be higher in the table really, but we can be better than that and will be come the Play Offs.

[kenfoggo 260]

As I watched Norwich’s no hopers with no ideas struggle to avoid defeat against Bristol City at home I was struck by the realisation that we do not deserve to be in the playoffs and we definitely do not deserve to be promoted. We are just not good enough. I was remembering how lucky we were to have players like Buendia and Maddison play regularly at Carrow Road and how we miss seeing players of such quality. Who would get selected for a Premiership team from our current squad of 34 year old strikers and assorted end of career journeymen, other than Angus Gunn? Sorry state of affairs.

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

50 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I disagree Sara is at his best coming in off the right. I think he’s isolated out there and we don’t get him on the ball enough 

Obviously it's all opinion. But blimey, we must be watching different games. I think he's been brilliant there.

Where perhaps we can agree is that wherever you play him, there are trade-offs. When he went back into his 'old' position alongside Kenny, the advantage is he gets on the ball much more, but the disadvantage is that it's often deep in our own half, sometimes in our own box, which seems a bit of a waste. But on the other hand, when he does get forward from that position, he's harder for defences to pick up.

There are lots of people who want him in the ten instead of Barnes, but to my mind that's where he's least effective: yes he's in a more central position, but it's also the most congested, and he'll be getting it more often with his back to goal. I think that's the easiest place for opposition defenders to shut him down. In a development that has shocked me to my core, I agree with @Dean Coneys boots : if you're replacing Barnes the best option would be Rowe.

I think Sara's current position, as an attacking midfielder on the right side (emphatically not a winger: when you say he's 'out wide' I think that's a real mis-representation of his role) is the best of both worlds. He doesn't have to do so much defending, or drop as deep to get the ball, but he can pick the ball up earlier than he would at no10 and drive at defenders. I guess the downside there is that you're limiting him to getting on the ball to when we attack down the right. But given that Sainz or Rowe are equally threatening down the other side, personally I don't see that as a downside.

Edited April 21 by Robert N. LiM

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026]

17 minutes ago, kenfoggo said:

As I watched Norwich’s no hopers with no ideas struggle to avoid defeat against Bristol City at home I was struck by the realisation that we do not deserve to be in the playoffs and we definitely do not deserve to be promoted. We are just not good enough. I was remembering how lucky we were to have players like Buendia and Maddison play regularly at Carrow Road and how we miss seeing players of such quality. Who would get selected for a Premiership team from our current squad of 34 year old strikers and assorted end of career journeymen, other than Angus Gunn? Sorry state of affairs.

Anyone who finishes in the top 6 after 46 games deserves to be in the playoffs

...how we match up against the other sides in there remains to be seen