The English National Anthem

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

Sorry if some of you think this should be on the dark side of the forum but with the Euros coming up I think it matters. Here is a link to a video of the Polish players singing their national anthem after the game in Wales. The Wales fans singing their anthem before the game was amazing. 

Do these people really have more national pride than the English? I think England needs a patriotic anthem about the country and not the Royals. Football matches are sometimes won by the narrowest of margins and it might just help to unite behind a song. 

 

[Fen Canary 824]

7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Sorry if some of you think this should be on the dark side of the forum but with the Euros coming up I think it matters. Here is a link to a video of the Polish players singing their national anthem after the game in Wales. The Wales fans singing their anthem before the game was amazing. 

Do these people really have more national pride than the English? I think England needs a patriotic anthem about the country and not the Royals. Football matches are sometimes won by the narrowest of margins and it might just help to unite behind a song. 

 

Ours is fine. God Save The King!

Although technically it’s not ours, we don’t have an official one

Edited March 28 by Fen Canary

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

9 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Ours is fine. God Save The King!

Although technically it’s not ours, we don’t have an official one

There is no "technically" about it. It's not an English anthem. 

You might think it's fine. I think it's an uninspiring dirge. 

[Fen Canary 824]

Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

There is no "technically" about it. It's not an English anthem. 

You might think it's fine. I think it's an uninspiring dirge. 

Middle class Guardian reading type doesn’t like something associated with England! I’m shocked I tell you! 

[Old Shuck 183]

Two 'contenders' for England's national anthem are 'Jerusalem' and 'I Vow To Thee My Country'.

As the latter speaks mostly of peace and love rather than routing enemies, winning battles or swearing eternal loyalty to the monarch, I'd go for that one.

[Fen Canary 824]

Just now, Old Shuck said:

Two 'contenders' for England's national anthem are 'Jerusalem' and 'I Vow To Thee My Country'.

As the latter speaks mostly of peace and love rather than routing enemies, winning battles or swearing eternal loyalty to the monarch, I'd go for that one.

Jerusalem goes well at the cricket, I Vow To Thee My Country is a boring verse of nothingness in my opinion 

[Ian 1,129]

I personally think it's less down to the anthem itself, and more to do with the fact it's generally looked down upon to have a strong English national identity these days, especially following Brexit.

When some people, some of the media and/or politicians, generally consider flying the Cross of St George to be an indicator of someone being a bigot or worse it's hardly surprising some people no longer feel a particular sense of pride at being English?

 

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

National Anthems aren't there to inspire football players.

It makes no difference to narrow margins. The Welsh bettered out their 'amazing' anthem prior to the penalty shoot out, and lost, because their last penalty was sh1te.

 

[sonyc 5,519]

29 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Here is a link to a video of the Polish players singing their national anthem after the game in Wales. The Wales fans singing their anthem before the game was amazing

I watched the match and the Welsh fans even sang it during the game. On some fans tears were running (and because of the anthem and shared experience not the disallowed goal!). It always gets me too and I realise I discovered the true extent of my Welsh heritage in 2020 and then decided to learn the language - but the emotional effect it has on me is something I cannot comprehend. Same when Calon Lan is sung by a choir. Just what the hell is that about? Born in Norwich and lots of ancestry in the area but almost matched by the Welsh side. That said, sung well I love OTBC as much.

Perhaps as small nations there is a pride for both countries? For us, I like Jerusalem. It is sweeping and emotional as a song. I agree about the dirge and royalist nature of our current one.

Edited March 28 by sonyc

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

8 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

Two 'contenders' for England's national anthem are 'Jerusalem' and 'I Vow To Thee My Country'.

As the latter speaks mostly of peace and love rather than routing enemies, winning battles or swearing eternal loyalty to the monarch, I'd go for that one.

Love Jerusalem but your second choice is just perfect. 

[Monty13 2,234]

25 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

Two 'contenders' for England's national anthem are 'Jerusalem' and 'I Vow To Thee My Country'.

As the latter speaks mostly of peace and love rather than routing enemies, winning battles or swearing eternal loyalty to the monarch, I'd go for that one.

Land of hope and glory has always been my favourite personally, I like the tune.

Although the issue with all these great old patriotic hymns are the lyrics are a tad problematic lol

Edited March 28 by Monty13

[Monty13 2,234]

17 minutes ago, Ian said:

I personally think it's less down to the anthem itself, and more to do with the fact it's generally looked down upon to have a strong English national identity these days, especially following Brexit.

When some people, some of the media and/or politicians, generally consider flying the Cross of St George to be an indicator of someone being a bigot or worse it's hardly surprising some people no longer feel a particular sense of pride at being English?

 

It is truly appalling how instead of extolling the true virtues of the English people and this country a lot of the establishment saw the way to distance themselves from the minority of the worst nationalist bigots was to attack anything nationalistic itself.

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

I think I like Jerusalem even less. It's about Jesus visiting England which even by religious standards is a bit of a stretch. 

I vow to thee my country is also religious so wouldn't get my vote. 

I think we need a new song altogether, preferably not written by the people who do the Eurovision Song Contest 😂

Bruce Springsteen did a wonderful version of a Woody Guthrie song about America which would make a good template 

 

 

Edited March 28 by dylanisabaddog

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

34 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Middle class Guardian reading type doesn’t like something associated with England! I’m shocked I tell you! 

Middle class, you do make me smile sometimes. Not intentionally I hasten to add. 

I read The Sunday Times by the way. 

As usual, do try not to let the facts get in the way of a post😂

Edited March 28 by dylanisabaddog

[Mr Angry 1,561]

This one is an inspiring title and has lyrics to match-it even references ‘Jerusalem’ in the last verse.

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Middle class, you do make me smile sometimes. Not intentionally I hasten to add. 

I read The Sunday Times by the way. 

As usual, do try not to let the facts get in the way of a post😂

Sunday Sport is a decent read. 

[Fen Canary 824]

4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Sunday Sport is a decent read. 

Is the Sport still going? The demise of proper newspapers saddens me, I miss having about 5 different ones that people have brought in to flick through in the site hut on my tea break

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

8 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Sunday Sport is a decent read. 

Man marries cabbage. One of the great newspaper headlines 😊

[Naturalcynic 631]

22 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I think I like Jerusalem even less. It's about Jesus visiting England which even by religious standards is a bit of a stretch. 

I vow to thee my country is also religious so wouldn't get my vote. 

I think we need a new song altogether, preferably not written by the people who do the Eurovision Song Contest 😂

 

So, non-religious, non-nationalistic and something that doesn’t glorify our colonial past but with a catchy, memorable and uplifting tune.  Just off the top of my head, how about this:

 

Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerland.

Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerla-and.

Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerland.

Ingerla-and, Ingerland.

 

The second verse could be along similar lines to the first.

Edited March 28 by Naturalcynic

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

2 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

So, non-religious, non-nationalistic and something that doesn’t glorify our colonial past but with a catchy, memorable and uplifting tune.  Just off the top of my head, how about this:

 

Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerland.

Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerla-and.

Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerland.

Ingerla-and, Ingerland.

 

The second verse could be along similar lines to the first.

A national anthem should by definition be nationalistic. 

There are plenty of great things about this country (it's beauty for a start) and we need a song to reflect that. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

12 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Man marries cabbage. One of the great newspaper headlines 😊

When journalists found the stories worth reading. 
 

 

[chicken 2,625]

10 minutes ago, Ian said:

I personally think it's less down to the anthem itself, and more to do with the fact it's generally looked down upon to have a strong English national identity these days, especially following Brexit.

When some people, some of the media and/or politicians, generally consider flying the Cross of St George to be an indicator of someone being a bigot or worse it's hardly surprising some people no longer feel a particular sense of pride at being English?

 

I think it's more to do with not really having a national identity other than the hangover from colonialism still.

By that I mean that up until things went seriously south in India, colonial era politics applied at home as well as abroad. Ways to unite and control people and to deflect blame for the crappy conditions the working class lived in whilst serving the aristocratic elite.

Our national anthem is a reflection of that in many ways and is why so many, for decades, have been questioning its relevance.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

Not believing in God, or being a Royalist (not particularly anti either just a bit meh to them), added to the fact its slow and dreary and the fans never sing it in time then no I've never sung it with pride.

I'd rather Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory personally. (Yes I realise the irony of Jerusalem after my God comment)

Edited March 28 by Ken Hairy
Fat sausage fingers

[NFN FC 1,123]

Vindaloo would be better!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

God Save The King is a dirge. I'd take Men of Harlech if the Welsh don't want that as their anthem. @chicken pretty much nailed it from my view as it's reflecting different time where histories should be, and indeed are questioned.

[S_81 795]

I think the manager’s tactics and the lack of international standard defensive depth are the biggest factors at play when it comes to England not achieving. But I don’t like the royals or what they represent and I agree with you that in the modern era it would be better to have a non-royal anthem. That said the fans will get behind the team whatever. 

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Do these people really have more national pride than the English? I think England needs a patriotic anthem about the country and not the Royals.

Read the words of the Polish anthem if you've not already, it's clear why they feel passionate.  We should appreciate how lucky it is that we've not got the same story to tell, or the relevance of how they're currently one border away from a war right now.  I think it's wrong to be envious of that, personally.

Furthermore, Any anthem would need to be as inclusive as possible to represent how much more diverse our society is today.

What you'd be left with would likely be less patriotic, generic, and deliberate avoidance of significant historical events or religious elements.  This whole process would likely cause yet more rifts among society as s result.

I think we're best just leaving as is personally, for me it's less about the song, but rather about having an identity that we're familiar with.  There's just too much division going on already to even contemplate going down this rabbits hole.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Read the words of the Polish anthem if you've not already, it's clear why they feel passionate.  We should appreciate how lucky it is that we've not got the same story to tell, or the relevance of how they're currently one border away from a war right now.  I think it's wrong to be envious of that, personally.

Furthermore, Any anthem would need to be as inclusive as possible to represent how much more diverse our society is today.

What you'd be left with would likely be less patriotic, generic, and deliberate avoidance of significant historical events or religious elements.  This whole process would likely cause yet more rifts among society as s result.

I think we're best just leaving as is personally, for me it's less about the song, but rather about having an identity that we're familiar with.  There's just too much division going on already to even contemplate going down this rabbits hole.

Spot on re. the bit in bold, and a quick precis of Polish history is needed too. I forgot which historian said it, but they called it "the Marseillaise for the defeated" and nailed it in the process. What people don't realise is that Poland's anthem was written a couple of years after Poland had been wiped off the map of Europe between the Prussians, Austrians, and Russians (Partitions of Poland, for the really interested) so where God S(h)ave The King is basically kow-towing to a monarch, Poland's anthem is defiance and getting their country back, quite literally.

Essentially, Poland has always had problems with few natural land borders (except the mountainous south) so stronger invaders were always able to cause havoc but by the same token, Poland could often fight hard to boot (Battle of Vienna, anyone?).

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

Liechtenstein has a nice tune, we should nick that :)

[TheRock 171]

How about something a little more punchy, such as Rule Britannia?

Another good one would be There Will Always Be An England.