Chris Sutton calls for a truce

[Rupethebear 29]

So there you have it in his EDP column the wise man has spoken.

The man is well respected and connected in the national media and is of course a club legion.

That will do for me, I’ll join the 80% now until the end of the season……..won’t  boo anymore and see how the journey goes.

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

I called for a truce the other day. Thrilled to see that Chris reads my comments. Cheers, mate.

[tea total 83]

Good old Chris!!! 

 

[shefcanary 2,901]

I didn't call for a truce as such, but agree with him that the club have to lead on any bringing together of the parties. It's been two days of radio silence yet again though ... (fingers tapping on my desk emoji).

[hogesar 10,536]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

I didn't call for a truce as such, but agree with him that the club have to lead on any bringing together of the parties. It's been two days of radio silence yet again though ... (fingers tapping on my desk emoji).

I'm sort of hoping the club has video evidence of those who boo'd the subs and has purchased them all dunce hats for the next home game, does that count?

[norwich canary 171]

The best solution is for the stowmarket 2 to go at the end of the season 

a fresh start then for everyone 

[shefcanary 2,901]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm sort of hoping the club has video evidence of those who boo'd the subs and has purchased them all dunce hats for the next home game, does that count?

With a binner logo on it? 🙂 

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

A simple question. Is there actually a significant disconnect between the club and the fans?

[essex canary 601]

15 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A simple question. Is there actually a significant disconnect between the club and the fans?

Is there a simple answer?

No one has suggested a Dunce's hat for the many who didn't turn up on Tuesday.

[shefcanary 2,901]

19 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A simple question. Is there actually a significant disconnect between the club and the fans?

Would the seats at the Carra' be completely full on a similar promotion chasing night like Tuesday despite the cost of living crisis / travel difficulties etc. if there was no disconnect? 

(That feels like a Nutty type provocation!)

[Mason 47 1,855]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

Would the seats at the Carra' be completely full on a similar promotion chasing night like Tuesday despite the cost of living crisis / travel difficulties etc. if there was no disconnect? 

(That feels like a Nutty type provocation!)

See, this is where I keep coming back to with this disconnect thing. Seems to me the disconnect is shorthand for 'we don't think we're very good at the moment'

Regardless, a united front might just tip us over. I'm all for it. 

[hogesar 10,536]

31 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A simple question. Is there actually a significant disconnect between the club and the fans?

Well, on social media that's the go-to reason for anything and everything bad. But i don't hear any general conversation around the subject in the barclay or Lion & Castle pub. Those who I go with are more in line with my mindset and I certainly have no disconnect other than my failing to understand the behaviour of certain other fans. 

I suspect it's nothing more than people really made their minds up on Wagner during our terrible run, which is understandable. The less understandable thing is they'd rather try and be right about that as opposed to just let the season run it's course. I couldn't tell you why.

 

[Branston Pickle 4,116]

29 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Would the seats at the Carra' be completely full on a similar promotion chasing night like Tuesday despite the cost of living crisis / travel difficulties etc. if there was no disconnect? 

(That feels like a Nutty type provocation!)

That’s the point, though - many appear to be in complete denial that we might have a chance of the play-offs, despite our improving league position telling us otherwise (and there being almost a third of the season to go).  It has been, and keeps on being, a strange season.

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

I haven't read the article but suspect it's a bit sitting on the fence, or prolonging an issue a even more when I'm not sure there is one.

I think it better to move on and forget about it as I'm not sure there really is an issue. An I'll informed fan reaction with an ill judged response from Wagner is best forgotten.

The one thing you can say about truces is that they will be broken.

We move on to Saturday....

[sgncfc 1,325]

Wagner has done nothing tactically to improve the team performances. He has simply profited by the return to fitness of our better players, who keep producing the goods on an individual basis. Tactically, we are still hopeless and we still make the same errors every game and our coaches apparently do nothing to stop them.

Just imagine what we could do with these players if we had a manager and a coaching team who had a clue.

It's a bit like putting a bad conductor in front of the LSO - they'd still produce a decent concert, but it wouldn't be as good as it should be. You can't blame the players when they're being asked to play in a way they're not capable of doing. The booing was directed specifically at the manager yet he managed to deflect and suggest that the crowd were booing the players. 

What would be interesting would be if the club actually asked people why they didn't turn up - but then, they might not like the answer.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,210]

25 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Well, on social media that's the go-to reason for anything and everything bad. But i don't hear any general conversation around the subject in the barclay or Lion & Castle pub. Those who I go with are more in line with my mindset and I certainly have no disconnect other than my failing to understand the behaviour of certain other fans. 

I suspect it's nothing more than people really made their minds up on Wagner during our terrible run, which is understandable. The less understandable thing is they'd rather try and be right about that as opposed to just let the season run it's course. I couldn't tell you why.

 

Just for balance purposes only, amongst the people I sit with and talk to the subject of the clubs relations with fans does come up. Not so much aimed at Wagner but more the spat with Webber and the Delia comments, one person I spoke to has even picked up on Knapper using the term "noise" in his recent interview. The comments made by Wagner in his post Watford match interview comes across as a continuation of the Delia 20% comment with people I have spoken to. 

For any truce to work there needs to be reconciliation on all sides, I am not naive enough to think it will happen.

Personally I forgive my fellow fans for the chanting and the booing and I forgive David Wagner for his ill advised  post match comments as I recognise both come from an emotional place and happened in the heat of battle.

I genuinely wish for the day we do not have schisms within our support (happy clapper/pant wetter, 80%/20% etc) and our debates are undertaken as fellow fans who have a different points of view and our debates are undertaken from the point of view of a reasoned debate and acceptance that minds will not necessarily be changed (I will not hold my breath).............

[Mason 47 1,855]

10 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

The booing was directed specifically at the manager yet he managed to deflect and suggest that the crowd were booing the players. 

Thing is, I don't think there's a difference 'twixt the two here. The booing may have been aimed at the manager, but it's very apparent that the players are firmly behind said manager. Therefore within the group, the booing is taken as an attack on the whole as opposed to just one individual.

I happen to think if the hostility was only felt by Wagner, he wouldn't have said what he said post-match; I think he saw his players hurting and reacted emotionally.

 

 

[hogesar 10,536]

49 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Thing is, I don't think there's a difference 'twixt the two here. The booing may have been aimed at the manager, but it's very apparent that the players are firmly behind said manager. Therefore within the group, the booing is taken as an attack on the whole as opposed to just one individual.

I happen to think if the hostility was only felt by Wagner, he wouldn't have said what he said post-match; I think he saw his players hurting and reacted emotionally.

 

 

Yeah that's the problem. If we were in a bad run of form and the players weren't playing for the manager this wouldn't even be an issue.

But you visibly saw Sargent shaking his head at the crowd showing his disappointment in us (them), and Sara cupping his ear to the crowd when he scored and the his post match interview.

They had to build a siege-mentality against some of the stuff our fans were presenting during the bad run (and with reason at the time, by the way) and they seem to have kept that going and if anything strengthened it. That they still worked hard and were behind the manager during the terrible run of form shouldn't then be a surprise that they're even more-so now the results are coming.

[Kenny Foggo 1,175]

Rather than a disconnect with the club, I feel its more football in general. We have the "thrill" of going for promotion but when you get there...look at Burnley. Also, under Farke in this league it was soooo good to watch... it's a kind of damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Also feel the protracted takeover has sapped people's enthusiasm even if it might be the best approach (I would rather it happened sooner by hey ho..)

Modern football is rubbish

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,175]

Ps Sutton is right imo

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Would the seats at the Carra' be completely full on a similar promotion chasing night like Tuesday despite the cost of living crisis / travel difficulties etc. if there was no disconnect? 

(That feels like a Nutty type provocation!)

Well, shef, if you're going to steal a provocation then steal from the best! That is a fair point, although the UK's cost of living crisis cannot be dismissed as a factor.

[Virtual reality 852]

Sad state of affairs when club legends have to ask fans to stop being morons and get behind a manager and team that are well in with a chance of the play offs. 

[Monty13 2,710]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Rather than a disconnect with the club, I feel its more football in general. We have the "thrill" of going for promotion but when you get there...look at Burnley. Also, under Farke in this league it was soooo good to watch... it's a kind of damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Also feel the protracted takeover has sapped people's enthusiasm even if it might be the best approach (I would rather it happened sooner by hey ho..)

Modern football is rubbish

 

Might I suggest that perhaps it’s a collection of issues? Different issues for different people, some that crossover, some not.

I think it’s a bit of a perfect storm of issues personally. However I find the fact posters I respect constantly seem to be suggesting there’s no issue between club and some supporters tiresome.

There blatantly and obviously is, it might not be the only issue amongst supporters, but it’s there and one part that’s controllable.

[The Real Buh 3,746]

Jelly and ice cream when Delia Leaves ringing out from the ground hopefully soon.

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

4 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

A simple question. Is there actually a significant disconnect between the club and the fans?

I know you stopped reading the Jon Punt piece, but I think his argument – that the fans wouldn't boo a slightly surprising substitution without there being underlying issues – was a convincing one. Whether or not 'disconnect' is the right word, something is undoubtedly rotten in the state of NR1, and it doesn't really matter if that's rational or not.

Edited February 15 by Robert N. LiM

[shefcanary 2,901]

31 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Sad state of affairs when club legends have to ask fans to stop being morons and get behind a manager and team that are well in with a chance of the play offs. 

That's one way of reading it - thought he was saying the club should lead on this? Ah well, its only words.

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

37 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I know you stopped reading the Jon Punt piece, but I think his argument – that the fans wouldn't boo a slightly surprising substitution without there being underlying issues – was a convincing one. Whether or not 'disconnect' is the right word, something is undoubtedly rotten in the state of NR1, and it doesn't really matter if that's rational or not.

Robert, I would say "rotten" is too strong! I can see that there are disparate issues that concern different people (shef for example with corporate governance, Essex with accountability, and others with more on-field related stuff) so that it appears as if pretty much everybody is upset about something, and so that everything is wrong. But then it is the problem with the internet that "everybody" isn't everybody at all, and the "everything" is an illusion.

[Nuff Said 5,868]

5 hours ago, Rupethebear said:

So there you have it in his EDP column the wise man has spoken.

The man is well respected and connected in the national media and is of course a club legion.

That will do for me, I’ll join the 80% now until the end of the season……..won’t  boo anymore and see how the journey goes.

 

(Does this count as thinking about the Roman Empire?)

Edited February 15 by Nuff Said

[Branston Pickle 4,116]

3 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Thing is, I don't think there's a difference 'twixt the two here. The booing may have been aimed at the manager, but it's very apparent that the players are firmly behind said manager. Therefore within the group, the booing is taken as an attack on the whole as opposed to just one individual.

I happen to think if the hostility was only felt by Wagner, he wouldn't have said what he said post-match; I think he saw his players hurting and reacted emotionally.

 

 

I was interested to read DW’s programme notes for Tuesday’s game (made before the QPR game).

He said how fantastic the atmosphere was v Coventry, how it was so important that everyone stuck by the team after going 1-0 down, and that it helped find a way back into the game.  He asked for us to be loud once again to send our belief to the players - we’ve proved that togetherness can shape the direction of the season. 

I think his post-match comments were made in that context - he’d only just bigged up the supporters and said how important they can be.  But it does rather follow that the adverse can also be true.

[Badger 2,743]

53 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

but I think his argument – that the fans wouldn't boo a slightly surprising substitution without there being underlying issues – was a convincing one.

I don't find it that convincing at all. Uninformed people being critical of things that they don't understand is quite a normal thing - we see it all the time with fans bemoaning the cat-and-mouse games that are played to try to break the opposition and just wanting us to hoof it forwards.

We have had some pretty dire football over the last few years - the last time were really good was during lockdown so we couldn't be there. The underlying issue (singular) is that we have not be playing particularly well for a number of years and some fans don't have the patience to wait for the good times to come around again and place all their hopes of simple, instant solutions. The ones now moaning at Wagner and Knapper, are the same ones moaning at Smith, Farke, Neil, Adams Hughton etc.

When things improve (which they will), they will be ok for a while, but start booing and moaning at the first significant drop in form and call for more new managers, sporting directors, owners etc.