TIL 1010 4,760 Posted January 28 The Club are not paying any dividends due to holders as we are skint. Waits....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,184 Posted January 28 1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said: The Club are not paying any dividends due to holders as we are skint. Waits....... I'll have to cancel my holiday in Stiffkey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corbs1 90 Posted January 28 But on the bright side I get a divi for next season as I’m an old gezzer now. Apparently I have to move seats though, which will please my neighbours. Having shares is more symbolic for me, unless Robert Chase Mark 2 comes in, then I’m at the AGM again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,793 Posted January 28 There goes my retirement plans. Work till I die it is then.😢 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Raptor 1,217 Posted January 28 Gutted. That £12.50 would've bought me a pint in the lion and castle. I'll have to go without now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Year of the tiger 54 Posted January 28 Happy to donate my £8 odd to Mr Wagners redundancy package Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,030 Posted January 28 ****, I was going to spend it on a large piece of cod and small portion of chips off the market, I will have to go hungry now............ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted January 28 Deja Vu. So they won't be paying £52.50 to the Norfolk County FA but can still afford a half million salary for the ED. Still more than half was payable to S&J&F prior to Foulgers departure and I withdrew mine in 2 tranches, the first in response to McNally's £367,000 bonus in a relegation season and the second in response to non-shareholder Directors helping themselves to bond bonuses so no issue for me now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fen Canary 847 Posted January 28 2 hours ago, The Raptor said: Gutted. That £12.50 would've bought me a pint in the lion and castle. I'll have to go without now. A half maybe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,760 Posted January 28 1 hour ago, essex canary said: Deja Vu. So they won't be paying £52.50 to the Norfolk County FA but can still afford a half million salary for the ED. Still more than half was payable to S&J&F prior to Foulgers departure and I withdrew mine in 2 tranches, the first in response to McNally's £367,000 bonus in a relegation season and the second in response to non-shareholder Directors helping themselves to bond bonuses so no issue for me now. I was looking forward to the drama Mr Dack v The Football Club. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted February 1 This is confirmed. Delighted I no longer have any irons in this fire. 18 months after a £118 million salary bill the Club confirms it cannot afford to pay out £30,000 or thereabouts to finance interest payments to supporters for long term capital. Laughable! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,424 Posted February 1 The briefest of statements on the web-site, but this part is of most interest! "due to club having no distributable reserves." And people question why there isn't much transfer action. Of course as soon as the EFL sanction Attanasio's share allotment, Smith & Jones sell up to him, then distributable reserves will be plenty. It's the poor minority shareholders being deprived! Have you written to the club yet Essex? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,446 Posted February 1 We’re in serious financial problems, aren’t we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted February 1 8 minutes ago, shefcanary said: The briefest of statements on the web-site, but this part is of most interest! "due to club having no distributable reserves." And people question why there isn't much transfer action. Of course as soon as the EFL sanction Attanasio's share allotment, Smith & Jones sell up to him, then distributable reserves will be plenty. It's the poor minority shareholders being deprived! Have you written to the club yet Essex? Their preposterous financial management has already cost them my preference shares so I think I will park this one for the moment. 'No Distributable Reserves"? This is an Interest Payment and doubtless they will be making many of those. Just weasel words again. Whatever trepidation we may have about Norfolk Group there can be no better example of why we need to move there ASAP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,424 Posted February 1 16 minutes ago, The Real Buh said: We’re in serious financial problems, aren’t we? Technically probably not. But it does mean everything the club currently does is at the behest of its funders - essentially Attanasio. As others have posited, he really is assuming control / applying the squeeze. It can't be long now, as long as the EFL say yes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 449 Posted February 1 On 28/01/2024 at 19:54, essex canary said: Deja Vu. So they won't be paying £52.50 to the Norfolk County FA Good, those twits had money off me for a red card that I didn't deserve about 11 years ago. Was a yellow at most. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, shefcanary said: Technically probably not. But it does mean everything the club currently does is at the behest of its funders - essentially Attanasio. As others have posited, he really is assuming control / applying the squeeze. It can't be long now, as long as the EFL say yes. Maybe it's good news that he is making clowns look like clowns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,424 Posted February 1 1 minute ago, essex canary said: Maybe it's good news that he is making clowns look like clowns. That might actually be his aim. His new MO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,446 Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, essex canary said: Maybe it's good news that he is making clowns look like clowns. I get the feeling financial collapse is going to be met with thunderous applause and a scattering of haribos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ness Point Runner 21 Posted February 1 Cant we have Liquorice Allsorts instead of Haribo ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
......and Smith must score. 1,349 Posted February 1 1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: Good, those twits had money off me for a red card that I didn't deserve about 11 years ago. Was a yellow at most. Only 11 years ago ? Never let it be said you bear a grudge ( wink ) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted February 1 1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: Good, those twits had money off me for a red card that I didn't deserve about 11 years ago. Was a yellow at most. Quite understandable as that would have been around the last time they didn't get their dividend from NCFC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bobzilla 150 Posted February 1 Tell me you know nothing about financial accounting and commerce without… A few things need correcting here. No, preference shares are not liabilities, they are equity, and preference dividends are not interest, they are dividends. You need distributable reserves to pay them, and we haven’t got any. In fact, our distributable reserves are negative £31.5m, so we need to make £31.5m of profit before we can pay any preference dividends. The money is (technically) there to pay them (they have been accrued as a liability) but they cannot be paid. I do not understand how they have been paid in previous years given that there haven’t been sufficient distributable reserves since 1 July 2021. But the point remains - the club aren’t paying preference dividends because if they did they would be acting illegally. Mark Attanasio putting more money into the club isn’t going to solve this problem. The MA money will be capital, not profits, not distributable reserves. So he changes nothing. Technically, the club could undergo a ‘capital reduction’ to turn the new capital into distributable reserves, but we lost £18m in 21/22 and £27m in 22/23. No director in hell would sign off on a capital reduction in those circumstances. Are we screwed? Quite possibly. The accounts do not make good reading at all. Our TV money has gone down by £54m in the last financial year, we made a loss on player trading of £19.7m, and the entirety of our deficit on reserves is being funded by Mark Attanasio’s Norwich investment vehicle. We do not have the assets to pay off his loan if he pulls it. So if we’re not screwed, it is entirely down to him. The good news is that whilst our TV money went down by £54m, our wage bill went down by a similar amount (very slightly more). But money to invest in new players? Yeah, no. Not without Mark Attanasio. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted February 1 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Bobzilla said: Tell me you know nothing about financial accounting and commerce without… A few things need correcting here. No, preference shares are not liabilities, they are equity, and preference dividends are not interest, they are dividends. You need distributable reserves to pay them, and we haven’t got any. In fact, our distributable reserves are negative £31.5m, so we need to make £31.5m of profit before we can pay any preference dividends. The money is (technically) there to pay them (they have been accrued as a liability) but they cannot be paid. I do not understand how they have been paid in previous years given that there haven’t been sufficient distributable reserves since 1 July 2021. But the point remains - the club aren’t paying preference dividends because if they did they would be acting illegally. Mark Attanasio putting more money into the club isn’t going to solve this problem. The MA money will be capital, not profits, not distributable reserves. So he changes nothing. Technically, the club could undergo a ‘capital reduction’ to turn the new capital into distributable reserves, but we lost £18m in 21/22 and £27m in 22/23. No director in hell would sign off on a capital reduction in those circumstances. Are we screwed? Quite possibly. The accounts do not make good reading at all. Preference Share 'Dividends' are charged in the 'Interest Payable' line in The Income Account so technically are NOT Dividends. You are correct that there are no distributable Reserves and given the Profit and Loss Account was negative last year too your implication regarding how it can possibly be different from the previous year must also be correct. So why the change? Your point about MA is also correct. The last point ought to be how did we get here considering only a quarter of the £96 million debt can truly be attributed to the pandemic? Edited February 1 by essex canary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,947 Posted February 2 On 28/01/2024 at 18:09, Herman said: There goes my retirement plans. Work till I die it is then.😢 Let's be honest Herman. However much I agree with your posts on the dark side of the forum, it's not really work is it? 😂😂 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,947 Posted February 2 9 hours ago, essex canary said: Preference Share 'Dividends' are charged in the 'Interest Payable' line in The Income Account so technically are NOT Dividends. You are correct that there are no distributable Reserves and given the Profit and Loss Account was negative last year too your implication regarding how it can possibly be different from the previous year must also be correct. So why the change? Your point about MA is also correct. The last point ought to be how did we get here considering only a quarter of the £96 million debt can truly be attributed to the pandemic Interest or dividend https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/corporate-finance-manual/cfm21120 The change from the past could be due to the fact that our Finance Director 'left' the business and we changed accountants. The answer to how we got to this point is perfectly obvious. You know full well it is due to some quite appalling transfer decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essex canary 497 Posted February 2 So Redeemable or Non-Redeemable? The get out clause in a promotion season which I utilised to opt out and which was applied in 2011-2013 suggests the former though of course such a date isn't 'certain'. Are you now implying that a new FD has now determined 'Non-redeemable' therefore the payment could be totally denied for the year? If so shouldn't the Non-Executive Directors reasonably direct back to the previous precedent? Re the last paragraph, expecting transfer fee profits to subsidise excess wages is a strategy based on a foundation of sand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,947 Posted February 2 17 minutes ago, essex canary said: So Redeemable or Non-Redeemable? The get out clause in a promotion season which I utilised to opt out and which was applied in 2011-2013 suggests the former though of course such a date isn't 'certain'. Are you now implying that a new FD has now determined 'Non-redeemable' therefore the payment could be totally denied for the year? If so shouldn't the Non-Executive Directors reasonably direct back to the previous precedent? Re the last paragraph, expecting transfer fee profits to subsidise excess wages is a strategy based on a foundation of sand. The facts that the club have made changes to its senior internal finance and legal employees and changed accountants may be a coincidence but I don't believe in coincidences. If you think the club has acted illegally I would suggest that you seek professional advice. It may make you feel better posting on this forum but it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. As regards finance, there are basically two options. There is the self funding model which comes unstuck when the club buys the wrong players. The second option is a sugar daddy. Both options have been discussed to death on this forum in the past but quite simply it is nigh on impossible to make a long term profit out of a club like Norwich. The FFP rulings against Forest and Everton give me hope but it appears that the Premier League is planning to increase the spending limit in the summer. My suggestion for anyone who is disillusioned with the state of affairs is to follow local football instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,760 Posted February 2 12 hours ago, Bobzilla said: Tell me you know nothing about financial accounting and commerce without… A few things need correcting here. No, preference shares are not liabilities, they are equity, and preference dividends are not interest, they are dividends. You need distributable reserves to pay them, and we haven’t got any. In fact, our distributable reserves are negative £31.5m, so we need to make £31.5m of profit before we can pay any preference dividends. The money is (technically) there to pay them (they have been accrued as a liability) but they cannot be paid. I do not understand how they have been paid in previous years given that there haven’t been sufficient distributable reserves since 1 July 2021. But the point remains - the club aren’t paying preference dividends because if they did they would be acting illegally. Mark Attanasio putting more money into the club isn’t going to solve this problem. The MA money will be capital, not profits, not distributable reserves. So he changes nothing. Technically, the club could undergo a ‘capital reduction’ to turn the new capital into distributable reserves, but we lost £18m in 21/22 and £27m in 22/23. No director in hell would sign off on a capital reduction in those circumstances. Are we screwed? Quite possibly. The accounts do not make good reading at all. Our TV money has gone down by £54m in the last financial year, we made a loss on player trading of £19.7m, and the entirety of our deficit on reserves is being funded by Mark Attanasio’s Norwich investment vehicle. We do not have the assets to pay off his loan if he pulls it. So if we’re not screwed, it is entirely down to him. The good news is that whilst our TV money went down by £54m, our wage bill went down by a similar amount (very slightly more). But money to invest in new players? Yeah, no. Not without Mark Attanasio. @nutty nigel have we unearthed a new FPA member here ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,760 Posted February 2 12 hours ago, Bobzilla said: Tell me you know nothing about financial accounting and commerce without… A few things need correcting here. No, preference shares are not liabilities, they are equity, and preference dividends are not interest, they are dividends. You need distributable reserves to pay them, and we haven’t got any. In fact, our distributable reserves are negative £31.5m, so we need to make £31.5m of profit before we can pay any preference dividends. The money is (technically) there to pay them (they have been accrued as a liability) but they cannot be paid. I do not understand how they have been paid in previous years given that there haven’t been sufficient distributable reserves since 1 July 2021. But the point remains - the club aren’t paying preference dividends because if they did they would be acting illegally. Mark Attanasio putting more money into the club isn’t going to solve this problem. The MA money will be capital, not profits, not distributable reserves. So he changes nothing. Technically, the club could undergo a ‘capital reduction’ to turn the new capital into distributable reserves, but we lost £18m in 21/22 and £27m in 22/23. No director in hell would sign off on a capital reduction in those circumstances. Are we screwed? Quite possibly. The accounts do not make good reading at all. Our TV money has gone down by £54m in the last financial year, we made a loss on player trading of £19.7m, and the entirety of our deficit on reserves is being funded by Mark Attanasio’s Norwich investment vehicle. We do not have the assets to pay off his loan if he pulls it. So if we’re not screwed, it is entirely down to him. The good news is that whilst our TV money went down by £54m, our wage bill went down by a similar amount (very slightly more). But money to invest in new players? Yeah, no. Not without Mark Attanasio. @nutty nigel have we unearthed a new FPA member here ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
