The Times describes Delia as “condescending” towards fans

[komakino 272]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

So is a sugar daddy that what Attanasio is? That's news to me. That's a start I guess. If we start with that, then what's the next move. Is it Delia and Michael walking away? Will that mean there's a vision that enables you to support the team? Is that even an option? I have a hunch that Attanasio doesn't want to buy them out. Just a hunch because I don't know. Somebody else probably has a different hunch.

I agree we should be informed what the plan is. It's just vague. What is obvious is that Attanasio is calling the shots and has been for some time. He's already said that Webber was reporting to him during the summer window. It seems Knapper is his man and they are working together from now on.

But if you think any of this will mean the flags are back out and everyone will suddenly support the team and stop whingeing you're in cloud cuckoo land. The plan was set out when Webber appointed Farke. For the first 15 months of that there was constant whingeing. After the first season big numbers of season ticket holders didn't renew. The plan was there but they didn't like it. Apparently the football was boring and the plan was rubbish. The whingers were bored with the plan and the football. We needed to win games and needed someone else's money to make that happen. But then we started to win games and by late autumn everyone was happy and the season ticket boycotters were buying half season tickets for Christmas.

 

If your hunch is correct - which it could be - then what's the point of the Attanasio's? 

[shefcanary 2,409]

Hey Edwards & Co. plus Hoggy. I do care. When I am in the ground I shout myself hoarse every time supporting the mighty yellows. Sure, I spot a few things and mention them on here, but I give 100% in the ground. I don't think I have ever booed, I show my lack of appreciation of players efforts by quickly turning and leaving the ground on the ref's final whistle and then planning my social media comments down the pub.

I still say the biggest problem is not the people having a moan in the ground, but those supporters (if you can call them that) who just sit passively watching the problems unfurl on the pitch without trying to get behind the team. Nutty thankfully acknowledges that is a problem that he is struggling to suggest a solution for other than wait for the team to somehow start winning again.

Sure, it is a solution, but I still think those "20%" in the ground who do whinge have always done that, what is different is that their whinges are no longer drowned out by the 80% positively engaging with their team. That is why I question things like governance and the questionable work of the marketing and customer relations team at the club. They are frankly doing nothing to gee up the silent majority at the moment, to engage them in getting behind the team. It is as if they are saying it is the Head Coaches job alone to get the team winning again, which I think Nutty et al will agree football is a team game. Most of the marketing and customer relations efforts are repeated ad nauseum (so here I can drag out Einsteins' favourite "madness" meme, but I won't here), they must try something different.

When things kicked off under Lambert he was actively supported by the work instigated by Andy Cullen who was prepared to do something different to engage fans; what he did try really changed the atmosphere in the ground and once Lambert got us on a roll in League 1 the teams' fortunes improved.

It is personally my opinion that some bigger decisions over fan engagement behind the scenes would help Wagner and the team on the pitch. What the Edward's and Hoggy seem to say all that needs to happen is wait for the team to start winning and scoff at mine and other's criticism. Fair enough, each to their own. 

[essex canary 496]

2 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Hey Edwards & Co. plus Hoggy. I do care. When I am in the ground I shout myself hoarse every time supporting the mighty yellows. Sure, I spot a few things and mention them on here, but I give 100% in the ground. I don't think I have ever booed, I show my lack of appreciation of players efforts by quickly turning and leaving the ground on the ref's final whistle and then planning my social media comments down the pub.

I still say the biggest problem is not the people having a moan in the ground, but those supporters (if you can call them that) who just sit passively watching the problems unfurl on the pitch without trying to get behind the team. Nutty thankfully acknowledges that is a problem that he is struggling to suggest a solution for other than wait for the team to somehow start winning again.

Sure, it is a solution, but I still think those "20%" in the ground who do whinge have always done that, what is different is that their whinges are no longer drowned out by the 80% positively engaging with their team. That is why I question things like governance and the questionable work of the marketing and customer relations team at the club. They are frankly doing nothing to gee up the silent majority at the moment, to engage them in getting behind the team. It is as if they are saying it is the Head Coaches job alone to get the team winning again, which I think Nutty et al will agree football is a team game. Most of the marketing and customer relations efforts are repeated ad nauseum (so here I can drag out Einsteins' favourite "madness" meme, but I won't here), they must try something different.

When things kicked off under Lambert he was actively supported by the work instigated by Andy Cullen who was prepared to do something different to engage fans; what he did try really changed the atmosphere in the ground and once Lambert got us on a roll in League 1 the teams' fortunes improved.

It is personally my opinion that some bigger decisions over fan engagement behind the scenes would help Wagner and the team on the pitch. What the Edward's and Hoggy seem to say all that needs to happen is wait for the team to start winning and scoff at mine and other's criticism. Fair enough, each to their own. 

Spot on!

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

7 minutes ago, komakino said:

If your hunch is correct - which it could be - then what's the point of the Attanasio's? 

My belief, based on the financial moves Attanasio has made, is that he does intend to own the club. In which case there certainly is a point to him.

[CirclePoint 200]

10 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

How can you do constructive criticism at a football match? We play out at the back 3 times in a row and lose it every time , 4th time they score. Do we call the players over to the barclay for some constructive criticism.  

If you think they’ll listen to you, sure. Give it a go. Or, you can just whinge about it. Your choice.

Edited December 18, 2023 by CirclePoint

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

44 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Getting fans back onside is about both the football and non-football aspects of the Club. Win matches they clearly come back onside.

Just winning matches is not necessarily the only criteria to get people back on side. We've been winning matches fairly consistently lately but the atmosphere at Carrow Rd has been lukewarm at best. People want to see wins but they want a bit of excitement getting those wins. Excitement that's been in short supply for too long.

All this will-they-won't they nonsense over the club ownership is unsettling. We've become becalmed. Clearly some aspects are best kept to themselves but a little less vagueness wouldn't do any harm.

Delia's alcohol-fuelled performances during and after the AGM have done nothing to bridge the disconnect betwen the club and the people who pay to keep it going.

Some on here have hoped that Saturday's game will provide some sort of watershed. Ekking out that point a Portman Rd will have helped but we need something to build on that. We beat this lot 4-0 at their place. Is it too much to ask that we really go for it and try to do something similar at the weekend  ?

 

[Indy 3,300]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

My belief, based on the financial moves Attanasio has made, is that he does intend to own the club. In which case there certainly is a point to him.

And if like some loyal Delia fans point out, that why buy a football club, as a baseball owner then the only way to gain any return on the millions already invested is to make the club & academy a success! By doing that the fans might be happy! So reality is while we have this limbo we appear to be treading water, coach who a lot of fans still question a bunch of old journeymen signed in the summer and the joint majority shareholders and fans even at 20% (probably a lot more) not happy with each other!

So solution is Delia & MWJ leave earlier or as is happening now the unhappy crowd start not to attend! Which is the better option! I know which one has a better future outcome in my view!

[Hairy Canary 704]

Whatever the reason it's a fact that the atmosphere at games is very flat at present. As flat as I can remember. It's also true that when we are all pulling together success (however that is measured - either winning or enjoying games) is more likely.

I cannot for the life of me believe that is due to a lack of a five year plan or comments made at the AGM etc. When we had Worthy, Neil, Lambert and Farke (others going further back of course) they had a way of galvanising the whole club from top to bottom. We were all in it together. Top managers who motivated everyone, not just the players. Certainly we haven't had that spirit since Farke was sacked,  which seems like a bigger and bigger mistake the more it gets clouded by history.

The dry Smith and to a lesser degree Wagner don't seem to be able to generate the same. I'm not suggesting this is all down to the manager's inability as there are several mitigating factors that are making his life difficult. The hugely disappointing efforts at staying in the over-hyped Premier League have left plenty wondering if getting there is really worth the candle, particularly if we don't have the funding required to give it a real go. The clear downgrading of the quality in our squad has been hugely disappointing with a feeling that a real opportunity to build and improve has been lost. The style of play on the pitch has hardly been rip-roaring either, particularly under Smith.

Put this all together and we get 80% of the fans sitting there chatting about their weekends while the other 20% are getting angry about the direction the club is heading in.

We're in a downward cycle at the moment but it can come back and the fans will be still be here and will get right behind the team again but it feels like there is a bit of a way to go before we get there .........

[nutty nigel 7,537]

1 hour ago, komakino said:

If your hunch is correct - which it could be - then what's the point of the Attanasio's? 

I don’t know. One thing I think but don’t know is that Attanasio isn’t this sugar daddy benefactor that some seem to think. Another thing I think is that he’s aware of the value of the franchise/organisation and doubt his plan includes giving a lot of that value to shareholders.

We shall see in due course but it seems nobody wants to find out. I expect he’s quite happy while all anyone seems to care about is what Delia said about the whingers. And that he can  get on with whatever the project is with Knapper while all anyone seems to care about is Webber.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Hey Edwards & Co. plus Hoggy. I do care. When I am in the ground I shout myself hoarse every time supporting the mighty yellows. Sure, I spot a few things and mention them on here, but I give 100% in the ground. I don't think I have ever booed, I show my lack of appreciation of players efforts by quickly turning and leaving the ground on the ref's final whistle and then planning my social media comments down the pub.

I still say the biggest problem is not the people having a moan in the ground, but those supporters (if you can call them that) who just sit passively watching the problems unfurl on the pitch without trying to get behind the team. Nutty thankfully acknowledges that is a problem that he is struggling to suggest a solution for other than wait for the team to somehow start winning again.

Sure, it is a solution, but I still think those "20%" in the ground who do whinge have always done that, what is different is that their whinges are no longer drowned out by the 80% positively engaging with their team. That is why I question things like governance and the questionable work of the marketing and customer relations team at the club. They are frankly doing nothing to gee up the silent majority at the moment, to engage them in getting behind the team. It is as if they are saying it is the Head Coaches job alone to get the team winning again, which I think Nutty et al will agree football is a team game. Most of the marketing and customer relations efforts are repeated ad nauseum (so here I can drag out Einsteins' favourite "madness" meme, but I won't here), they must try something different.

When things kicked off under Lambert he was actively supported by the work instigated by Andy Cullen who was prepared to do something different to engage fans; what he did try really changed the atmosphere in the ground and once Lambert got us on a roll in League 1 the teams' fortunes improved.

It is personally my opinion that some bigger decisions over fan engagement behind the scenes would help Wagner and the team on the pitch. What the Edward's and Hoggy seem to say all that needs to happen is wait for the team to start winning and scoff at mine and other's criticism. Fair enough, each to their own. 

Edwards and co.

Hey FPAs and co.

Where's the update?

You’ve all been so quiet since the AGM and most of your soothsaying crumbled to dust.

What’s the plan?

[TIL 1010 4,748]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

This rewriting of history is incredible. You ADs sent a letter to to Delia and Michael asking then to basically dump Roger Munby and there was a meeting at St Andrews Hall apparently for the same cause. Roger got in first by resigning.

Absolute cobblers ! How you have the nerve to talk of rewriting history and then write that and try to say the St Andrews Hall meeting was part of a means to dump Roger Munby is laughable. There is a reason why and when that meeting took place. It could so easily have happened at the start of that season but the NCISA membership decided on a vote when the meeting was to take place.

[Robert N. LiM 4,365]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

When things kicked off under Lambert he was actively supported by the work instigated by Andy Cullen who was prepared to do something different to engage fans; what he did try really changed the atmosphere in the ground and once Lambert got us on a roll in League 1 the teams' fortunes improved.

It is personally my opinion that some bigger decisions over fan engagement behind the scenes would help Wagner and the team on the pitch.

Great post. Out of interest - what sort of stuff did Cullen do to engage fans? I had a season ticket at the time and don't remember anything in particular. Do you think there are specific lessons that the club could learn now from what Cullen did?

[Sufyellow 222]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

So is a sugar daddy that what Attanasio is? That's news to me. That's a start I guess. If we start with that, then what's the next move. Is it Delia and Michael walking away? Will that mean there's a vision that enables you to support the team? Is that even an option? I have a hunch that Attanasio doesn't want to buy them out. Just a hunch because I don't know. Somebody else probably has a different hunch.

I agree we should be informed what the plan is. It's just vague. What is obvious is that Attanasio is calling the shots and has been for some time. He's already said that Webber was reporting to him during the summer window. It seems Knapper is his man and they are working together from now on.

But if you think any of this will mean the flags are back out and everyone will suddenly support the team and stop whingeing you're in cloud cuckoo land. The plan was set out when Webber appointed Farke. For the first 15 months of that there was constant whingeing. After the first season big numbers of season ticket holders didn't renew. The plan was there but they didn't like it. Apparently the football was boring and the plan was rubbish. The whingers were bored with the plan and the football. We needed to win games and needed someone else's money to make that happen. But then we started to win games and by late autumn everyone was happy and the season ticket boycotters were buying half season tickets for Christmas.

 

He will be very lucky if he isn't, most end up being that way. How many times do I have to say it , the players have my total support,  does that mean I have to support what was happening off the pitch? I guess you aren't going to get it , don't worry about the whingers , worry about the thousands of fans who aren't bothered anymore and get up and leave.  

[nutty nigel 7,537]

50 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Absolute cobblers ! How you have the nerve to talk of rewriting history and then write that and try to say the St Andrews Hall meeting was part of a means to dump Roger Munby is laughable. There is a reason why and when that meeting took place. It could so easily have happened at the start of that season but the NCISA membership decided on a vote when the meeting was to take place.

[shefcanary 2,409]

33 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Great post. Out of interest - what sort of stuff did Cullen do to engage fans? I had a season ticket at the time and don't remember anything in particular. Do you think there are specific lessons that the club could learn now from what Cullen did?

You are probably right that as a season ticket holder you didn't notice much, the thrust of the "project" was not to retain season ticket holders but to gain new season ticket holders to effectively make the club's life easier by guaranteeing the ability to reach near capacity attendances on a regular basis. I think that is when Essex's feelings of being unloved began! 😉  

Looking back it probably won't seem that innovative any more, but at the time they did a lot more engagement with community groups, young people and schools etc. In addition they also made offers to new season ticket holders that were very competitive using that old 90's / 00's marketing tool of offering a first year dead cheap, get people signed up on D/D's and automatic renewal. All with the aim to drive up regular season ticket sales.

I agree that most clubs now do this, but it would not be wrong to say we were the first non-EPL club who got to over 70% of seats being sold as season tickets year after year, a significant achievement - most clubs were happy to live off a rump of season tickets and spend their marketing on their casual tickets. I noticed up here in Sheffield for instance that United seemed to follow every initiative Norwich delivered about a couple of seasons later. Their attendances followed the same incline, moving on average from 15-18,000 to 27-30,000+ even before promotion. It was quite the opposite at Wednesday.

Now we have that aging season ticket holder profile and as others have said many a time on here, the atmosphere is flat on matchday. One can agree something needs to be done, but with current effective near capacity that isn't so easy, and I think in Delia & Michael's mind is not cost effective . Do they force churn (perhaps Smith then Wagner as head coach is such a big picture strategy 🙂). Do they increase capacity which again is difficult because effectively one side of the ground will have to be closed(but Attanasio will potentially bite that bullet).

Which leaves managing what little churn there is more effectively, with a big aim of improving the general atmosphere in the ground. The lack of direct engagement with the wider public means in recent years they will have to find a way of getting casual tickets to a fairly limited audience (single people with a bit of spare cash as seats are generally scattered in one's or at best two's around the ground) as the connection has been lost to some extent. The idea of the old roadshow and getting the club out into Norfolk's outer reaches has at least re-started.

Sure, winning regularly helps with this, but it is becoming a bit Catch 22 at the moment. Nutty rightly says just a little more support from the current crowd might just get the team playing better, but that current crowd are waiting for something, anything, to happen and even when it does happen it doesn't seem to linger in the memory (time for the marketing team to reinforce how good those "happenings" are?). There has to be a collective effort of changing the mood, but not cheap marketing gimmicks - make them worthwhile to individuals.

I wandered away from your original query, but it got me thinking. 

[TIL 1010 4,748]

9 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

The meeting was requested by the NCISA membership as a result of a poll which took place in around August of the previous year with the options being to hold it at the start of the season, during the season or at the end of the season. The vote dictated that the end of the season it was hence my reference to it being organised and a few days before it took place Munby and Doncaster resigned which naturally had an impact on the night. It was an opportunity for fans to air their grievances which is probably why over 500 turned up many of whom wanted heads to roll for us ending up in League One but the resignations took the sting out of the tail.

Your imotive language such as ' shindig ' and ' ' no stomach to see it through ' whatever that may mean is of no surprise but for someone who doesn't need a fans group to represent him it did not stop you from turning up on the night to see what was said. 

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,365]

17 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

 

I wandered away from your original query, but it got me thinking

Really interesting,  thanks.  Way more informative than my question deserved. Have to say I always find your take on things worth reading.  All the best and OTBC

[shefcanary 2,409]

7 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Really interesting,  thanks.  Way more informative than my question deserved. Have to say I always find your take on things worth reading.  All the best and OTBC

TBH I used Cullen's marketing approach as a case study with the marketing team at my former place. I used reams of stuff they were doing which at the time was year's ahead of any other organisation in the sports and leisure field (I was DCEO at a city museums trust). My team recognised how effective some of this was and used it in their own marketing. Our footfall increased substantially as well.

I nearly cried as much over Cullen's departure as I did when they sold Kevin Reeves!

Edited December 18, 2023 by shefcanary
I realise this will wind Nutty up more, but each to their own!

[nutty nigel 7,537]

4 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The meeting was requested by the NCISA membership as a result of a poll which took place in around August of the previous year with the options being to hold it at the start of the season, during the season or at the end of the season. The vote dictated that the end of the season it was hence my reference to it being organised and a few days before it took place Munby and Doncaster resigned which naturally had an impact on the night. It was an opportunity for fans to air their grievances which is probably why over 500 turned up many of whom wanted heads to roll for us ending up in League One but the resignations took the sting out of the tail.

Your imotive language such as ' shindig ' and ' ' no stomach to see it through ' whatever that may mean is of no surprise but for someone who doesn't need a fans group to represent him it did not stop you from turning up on the night to see what was said. 

 

I didn’t just turn up to see what was said. If you remember I spoke from the floor at that meeting. One of the resolutions was a vote of no confidence in the board. This was basically Munby and Doncaster but as you pointed out they resigned ‘somewhat taking the sting out of it’.

At the meeting I spoke about what was to happen moving forwards. I got no answer. We just went through the summer and Delia and Michael appointed McNally and persuaded Bowkett  to be Chairman.

[hogesar 9,676]

37 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

TBH I used Cullen's marketing approach as a case study with the marketing team at my former place. I used reams of stuff they were doing which at the time was year's ahead of any other organisation in the sports and leisure field (I was DCEO at a city museums trust). My team recognised how effective some of this was and used it in their own marketing. Our footfall increased substantially as well.

I nearly cried as much over Cullen's departure as I did when they sold Kevin Reeves!

Although the club are reaching out to schools, local businesses and Govt based jobs (Police etc) offering reduced priced ticket options, incentives to go more than once, getting kids involved etc.

So I'm not sure what you're wanting them to do differently to this?

[shefcanary 2,409]

10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Although the club are reaching out to schools, local businesses and Govt based jobs (Police etc) offering reduced priced ticket options, incentives to go more than once, getting kids involved etc.

So I'm not sure what you're wanting them to do differently to this?

I would urge them to do something different to this, as I said in my piece everyone is at this sort of stuff now. It will probably require some more face to face interventions, not just passive offering of incentives but actually providing some form of exchange with the prospective season ticket holder / regular casual ticket holder. That old model of just offering "money off" is not going to be enough as we still slowly come out of the cost of living squeeze. I'm out of the corporate loop now, but if I were on the Board I'd be looking for ideas to back for new ways to properly engage with the target audience. As I said given the paucity of "block" seats, they are likely to be singles or young couples rather than family groups or groups of friends, so use of targeted social media, events at the Lion & Castle and extra targeted activity around roadshows would be my initial idea. But I'm not the expert, just an experienced corporate hack.   

Just seen the Hull match thread which sparked another idea - some kind of similar offer for a home TV match that is moved targeted at the single person with a targeted free add-on as well as cheap ticket in some kind of package, then a bit of "persuasive sales" whilst they are in the ground.

Edited December 18, 2023 by shefcanary
Saw Hull match offer

[essex canary 496]

19 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I would urge them to do something different to this, as I said in my piece everyone is at this sort of stuff now. It will probably require some more face to face interventions, not just passive offering of incentives but actually providing some form of exchange with the prospective season ticket holder / regular casual ticket holder. That old model of just offering "money off" is not going to be enough as we still slowly come out of the cost of living squeeze. I'm out of the corporate loop now, but if I were on the Board I'd be looking for ideas to back for new ways to properly engage with the target audience. As I said given the paucity of "block" seats, they are likely to be singles or young couples rather than family groups or groups of friends, so use of targeted social media, events at the Lion & Castle and extra targeted activity around roadshows would be my initial idea. But I'm not the expert, just an experienced corporate hack.   

Just seen the Hull match thread which sparked another idea - some kind of similar offer for a home TV match that is moved targeted at the single person with a targeted free add-on as well as cheap ticket in some kind of package, then a bit of "persuasive sales" whilst they are in the ground.

Exactly! The policy of waiting for every single restricted view seat to sell before facilitating any offer to season ticket holders leaving blocks of prime seats vacant is what needs to be addressed. 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

2 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

He will be very lucky if he isn't, most end up being that way. How many times do I have to say it , the players have my total support,  does that mean I have to support what was happening off the pitch? I guess you aren't going to get it , don't worry about the wh useingers , worry about the thousands of fans who aren't bothered anymore and get up and leave.  

I know you support the players during the game as do I. This means that we're not part of the 20%. I guess you aren't going to get that.

As for the thousands of fans who won't bother anymore - I'm not bothered about them. Everything changed after COVID. Fans don't bother so much about missing games and a new phrase has been born "I only go out of duty". If they don't renew then other people can have that seat, either season ticket or casual.

Captive season ticket holders has become a huge problem both for the season ticket holders and the franchise/organisation. That's Attanasio's problem now. It will be interesting to see how he addresses it.

[Sufyellow 222]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

That has never historically impacted atmosphere though. I guarantee under Roeder with 9564 loan signings we had no future vision but even then we got behind the team until they gave us ample reason not to. We'd lost 3-0 the game before but we got behind the bunch of wasters who weren't even here permanently and didn't care a jot if we stayed up or not. We still gave them support from the stands.

Now there's some weird entitlement where apparently as fans we need to know every single step the club is taking in every area of the club's existence as a football club and as a business. And if we don't like one of those steps then it's our right to withdraw all support of the players. And moan instead.

To me, I genuinely can't get my head around it. When I go to football I don't want to be surrounded by negativity before we start. And even if we are feeling negative going into a game I don't want the opposition to recognise that. I much prefer watching us win, I'm sure most other fans do yet they won't do the bare minimum to help that? The bare minimum of just giving a bit of support to the players. It doesn't sound that bad of a deal. I'm hoping post Ipswich we see a bit better from the stands.

Yep , is that aimed at the 3 stands who sit in silence all game and then leave with 10 mins to go when we are drawing? 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

43 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Yep , is that aimed at the 3 stands who sit in silence all game and then leave with 10 mins to go when we are drawing? 

So, just for the record I'm in the blankets out in the rain at the front of the south stand. I was kindly put there because I can't safely crutch up to the back of Block E where I still have a ticket that I buy for the grandkids to share. I'm as loud there and I was in the Barclay. People do leave early but I don't. People also leave early from the Barclay and Snakepit. 

Why don't you join me for a game. We can have a supporter shout off and you can watch the people leaving early from all the stands.

Edited December 18, 2023 by nutty nigel

[essex canary 496]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So, just for the record I'm in the blankets out in the rain at the front of the south stand. I was kindly put there because I can't safely crutch up to the back of Block E where I still have a ticket that I buy for the grandkids to share. I'm as loud there and I was in the Barclay. People do leave early but I don't. People also leave early from the Barclay and Snakepit. 

Why don't you join me for a game. We can have a supporter shout off and you can watch the people leaving early from all the stands.

Just to make it clear I never leave before the end. When we are 3-0 or so down at half-time my missus has a tendency to leave and buy me a pint at Spoons to avoid the crowds at the end of the game.  

[nutty nigel 7,537]

19 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Just to make it clear I never leave before the end. When we are 3-0 or so down at half-time my missus has a tendency to leave and buy me a pint at Spoons to avoid the crowds at the end of the game.  

The worst I've ever known in the south stand for leaving early was in Hughton's second season. I remember a game against West Ham that we won 3-1. By the 90th minute people were trudging out 4 deep in front of us. They all stopped to watch as we scored a third goal. Obviously I didn't see it so I asked the guy standing in front of me if it was a good goal. He started to describe it for me until it dawned on him I was being a little sarcastic...

[Sufyellow 222]

8 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

If you think they’ll listen to you, sure. Give it a go. Or, you can just whinge about it. Your choice.

You aren't listening I don't, I am one of the few that still actually support the team vocally, even when we are losing,  I expect there's about 10 of us . But still it's fairly boring and I will shout if they drop off the work rate , or keep messing up at the back, are we just meant to happy clap. 

[Sufyellow 222]

8 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

Whatever the reason it's a fact that the atmosphere at games is very flat at present. As flat as I can remember. It's also true that when we are all pulling together success (however that is measured - either winning or enjoying games) is more likely.

I cannot for the life of me believe that is due to a lack of a five year plan or comments made at the AGM etc. When we had Worthy, Neil, Lambert and Farke (others going further back of course) they had a way of galvanising the whole club from top to bottom. We were all in it together. Top managers who motivated everyone, not just the players. Certainly we haven't had that spirit since Farke was sacked,  which seems like a bigger and bigger mistake the more it gets clouded by history.

The dry Smith and to a lesser degree Wagner don't seem to be able to generate the same. I'm not suggesting this is all down to the manager's inability as there are several mitigating factors that are making his life difficult. The hugely disappointing efforts at staying in the over-hyped Premier League have left plenty wondering if getting there is really worth the candle, particularly if we don't have the funding required to give it a real go. The clear downgrading of the quality in our squad has been hugely disappointing with a feeling that a real opportunity to build and improve has been lost. The style of play on the pitch has hardly been rip-roaring either, particularly under Smith.

Put this all together and we get 80% of the fans sitting there chatting about their weekends while the other 20% are getting angry about the direction the club is heading in.

We're in a downward cycle at the moment but it can come back and the fans will be still be here and will get right behind the team again but it feels like there is a bit of a way to go before we get there .........

We are all in it together is my point , with buying into a plan. What are we all in together? Signing players with no future to steady the ship? We can't have a connection to our young players because we will probably sell them. January will be a huge month for Knapper to come out and get us on side. Maybe a couple of loan signings,  but the players we need. And a statement that we look to build round Sara and players like Rowe. 

[Sufyellow 222]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

The worst I've ever known in the south stand for leaving early was in Hughton's second season. I remember a game against West Ham that we won 3-1. By the 90th minute people were trudging out 4 deep in front of us. They all stopped to watch as we scored a third goal. Obviously I didn't see it so I asked the guy standing in front of me if it was a good goal. He started to describe it for me until it dawned on him I was being a little sarcastic...

I have never seen it as bad as recently,  and fans pouring out with ten to go when drawing. How many points would we get if all of us got behind them instead of leaving. That must be worse than someone moaning.  If I was a player and heard someone moaning I would want to prove them wrong. If I watched half my supporters silently get up and leave with 10 to go while drawing I would be so demotivated.