Can we make it three wins in a row?

[hogesar 9,760]

25 minutes ago, Big O said:

Usually with you Hogesar on the optimism front but fear for us a little tomorrow. They are a bit of a bogey team for us (although we did win with the Sarge flick the other year). Don’t fancy us getting much tomorrow but would be overjoyed to be made to eat humble pie. 

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not expecting anything 😅

[CirclePoint 205]

3 hours ago, sgncfc said:

This could explain why I don't really like watching football anymore, if coaches are genuinely doing this. What a shame that those youngsters don't play the game for love, rather than results.

Re the restaurant analogy - I might go back to that restaurant to give it a second chance, but I probably won't keep going if the food continues to be bad. The purpose of complaining is to improve the standard isn't it?

Easy there. That's one heck of a conclusion to jump to. To assume that my entire coaching philosophy is based around scoring goals is extremely narrow-minded. My single comment about scoring goals first and style points second was in response to TheGunnShow's post that winning isn't always elegant and efficient.

My coaching philosophy, and the philosophy I encourage the other coaches to adopt is primarily focused on the players 'enjoyment' of the game. In fact, I tell the parents I'm not here to coach their kids to have 'fun'. Why? Because the moment the game becomes 'unfun', the players begin to quit. Therefore, my philosophy is to coach the young players to 'enjoy' their experience on the field.  That way, win lose, or draw, they come away having learned something about themselves as a person and have grown as a football player.

With that said, I do encourage winning. Why? Teaching a group of younglings to work hard in a coordinated effort to achieve a specific goal is a huge life skill, and, even though winning isn't everything, it sure feels better than losing!

 

As to your response to my restaurant analogy, no, complaining solves nothing. Constructive criticism solves problems and helps to overcome challenges and improve. Incessant and repetitive complaining only serves to demonstrate one's psychological or pathological issues.

 

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

9 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

Easy there. That's one heck of a conclusion to jump to. To assume that my entire coaching philosophy is based around scoring goals is extremely narrow-minded. My single comment about scoring goals first and style points second was in response to TheGunnShow's post that winning isn't always elegant and efficient.

My coaching philosophy, and the philosophy I encourage the other coaches to adopt is primarily focused on the players 'enjoyment' of the game. In fact, I tell the parents I'm not here to coach their kids to have 'fun'. Why? Because the moment the game becomes 'unfun', the players begin to quit. Therefore, my philosophy is to coach the young players to 'enjoy' their experience on the field.  That way, win lose, or draw, they come away having learned something about themselves as a person and have grown as a football player.

With that said, I do encourage winning. Why? Teaching a group of younglings to work hard in a coordinated effort to achieve a specific goal is a huge life skill, and, even though winning isn't everything, it sure feels better than losing!

 

As to your response to my restaurant analogy, no, complaining solves nothing. Constructive criticism solves problems and helps to overcome challenges and improve. Incessant and repetitive complaining only serves to demonstrate one's psychological or pathological issues.

 

Did you ever read Garry Nelson's excellent book Left Foot in the Grave? He was player-coach at Torquay United when he wrote it and there were several bits that were incredibly illuminating upon reading them. The Torquay side were on a form skid and he noted (and I'm quoting roughly, not verbatim) "for players with their confidence close to rock-bottom, the passing game does not work. Go back to basics and play the percentages".

He wrote that as the manager and his best friend in football had initially tried, do-or-die, to keep his side playing to-feet, attractive football but they were so lacking in confidence that basic errors kept creeping in. 

We really were spoiled under Farke in the Champs. We have to get it out of our heads that we can always play silky, cerebral football here. At the moment, the team are trying to find themselves after an injury crisis and a poor run of form. But, to their credit, they're trying to fight and Wagner's trying to do something a bit different.

If we were to continue playing a gritty style of football and got very mixed results, I'd understand the apprehension. But if we were to go through December unbeaten on the back of several bitty QPR-esque one-goal victories and beat that lot in the process, we'd probably be back in the play-off positions and looking much healthier.

And on a personal level, I'd be more than happy with that hypothetical situation.

Edited November 28, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Robert N. LiM 4,511]

12 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

Easy there. That's one heck of a conclusion to jump to. To assume that my entire coaching philosophy is based around scoring goals is extremely narrow-minded. My single comment about scoring goals first and style points second was in response to TheGunnShow's post that winning isn't always elegant and efficient.

My coaching philosophy, and the philosophy I encourage the other coaches to adopt is primarily focused on the players 'enjoyment' of the game. In fact, I tell the parents I'm not here to coach their kids to have 'fun'. Why? Because the moment the game becomes 'unfun', the players begin to quit. Therefore, my philosophy is to coach the young players to 'enjoy' their experience on the field.  That way, win lose, or draw, they come away having learned something about themselves as a person and have grown as a football player.

With that said, I do encourage winning. Why? Teaching a group of younglings to work hard in a coordinated effort to achieve a specific goal is a huge life skill, and, even though winning isn't everything, it sure feels better than losing!

 

As to your response to my restaurant analogy, no, complaining solves nothing. Constructive criticism solves problems and helps to overcome challenges and improve. Incessant and repetitive complaining only serves to demonstrate one's psychological or pathological issues.

 

Great post: you sound like a brilliant coach. OTBC

[Soldier on 168]

Expecting a limp defeat followed by another at the weekend.

[Michael Starr 521]

I'm calling it right now. We are going to get absolutely hammered tonight against Watford. I mean thumped. Watford have actually been playing much better lately. We've been absolute garbage. I think this is the moment when the form flips both ways.

[S_81 873]

2.0 Watford 

[kenfoggo 247]

Watford 0 Norwich 7! Our fantastical, exciting style of attacking football will prove too much for a drab , out of form opposition. Our goal machine front line will knock them in for fun and our back four will hardly need to show their vastly superior skills as our dynamic midfield will protect them from ever having to touch the ball. I predict that 80% of the game will be played in Watford’s defensive half and our keeper will not need to get his gloves or his knees dirty. Hurrah!

[Bomber 50]

Just think it will be some time yet before our fortunes really change - this defensive first plan is fine until you come up against a team not in the bottom 6 and we will be tested tonight

[norfolkngood 1,091]

17 hours ago, hogesar said:

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not expecting anything 😅

Hog you are my go to stat man ! 

If you were looking at stats and not games as knapper has done , what do you think the story looks like ? 

serious question not trying to trip you up ,

Results is key but i never really look at stats so i wanted to see a stat opinion 

[Midlands Yellow 4,085]

This man had Watford’s number. 
 

https://www.watfordfc.com/magazine/features/chasing-shadows-louie-donowa

[kenfoggo 247]

“Wagner is “excited” about the prospect of playing Watford. Jolly good. But the inference is that he was indifferent for all the preceding fixtures. He says that we are going to focus on our own performance, and then goes on to highlight the great threats of the opposition either down the flanks or through the middle. If he focuses on our own performance as he says he did against QPR then we are going to lose huge at Watford. I was at the QPR game, bored witless by our clueless squad, and felt  that only the most delusional City fan would conclude that we deserved to win. QPR were better on the ball, had more possession, did not give the ball away cheaply, had more shots on target and were unlucky not to put three or four past our slow defence. They looked like they wanted to win. We looked two yards too slow to every ball (apart from the one shot that Hwang took) and most of the 7 of our over 30 players looked tired and disinterested. We had little to offer and a better side than QPR would have ripped us apart. I suspect that will happen against Watford who have not lost 5 of their last 6 games, losing only to Leicester the top club in the Championship. We are going to get creamed.

Edited November 28, 2023 by kenfoggo

[Robert Ketts Yellow Army 15]

We are due a big win - I’m going 0-3 Norwich 

[Capt. Pants 4,284]

Wagner has been here almost a year now do we really need to be going back to basics at home to the side 2nd bottom of the league? Evidently we do but it's a sad state of affairs from where we've come from. I'm trying to stay with Wagner but Christ it's hard work at the moment.

Tonight it all hinges on stinking the place out and grinding out a result. 

OTBC!

[CirclePoint 205]

6 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Did you ever read Garry Nelson's excellent book Left Foot in the Grave? He was player-coach at Torquay United when he wrote it and there were several bits that were incredibly illuminating upon reading them. The Torquay side were on a form skid and he noted (and I'm quoting roughly, not verbatim) "for players with their confidence close to rock-bottom, the passing game does not work. Go back to basics and play the percentages".

He wrote that as the manager and his best friend in football had initially tried, do-or-die, to keep his side playing to-feet, attractive football but they were so lacking in confidence that basic errors kept creeping in. 

We really were spoiled under Farke in the Champs. We have to get it out of our heads that we can always play silky, cerebral football here. At the moment, the team are trying to find themselves after an injury crisis and a poor run of form. But, to their credit, they're trying to fight and Wagner's trying to do something a bit different.

If we were to continue playing a gritty style of football and got very mixed results, I'd understand the apprehension. But if we were to go through December unbeaten on the back of several bitty QPR-esque one-goal victories and beat that lot in the process, we'd probably be back in the play-off positions and looking much healthier.

And on a personal level, I'd be more than happy with that hypothetical situation.

I have not read Nelson’s book. But it’s now on my Christmas list! Thanks for the recommendation!

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

1 minute ago, CirclePoint said:

I have not read Nelson’s book. But it’s now on my Christmas list! Thanks for the recommendation!

He wrote two - the first one was Left Foot Forward when he was a journeyman striker at Charlton Athletic. That's also an excellent read.

[hogesar 9,760]

2 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Hog you are my go to stat man ! 

If you were looking at stats and not games as knapper has done , what do you think the story looks like ? 

serious question not trying to trip you up ,

Results is key but i never really look at stats so i wanted to see a stat opinion 

I think he'll have looked at the fact over the season we average 1.9, basically 2 goals conceded every game.

Attacking we average 1.8 - we create 2.2 big chances per game and miss on average 1.2.

We've only scored a single goal from outside the area all season.

I think the poor performance vs QPR is partially because the focus has been on not conceding 2 goals per game. It asks too much of the front players, who try to over-compensate, and leave bigger gaps as the first defensive pressing shield and leads to the disasters of QPR and to a lesser extent Leeds. Psychologically I'm sure Knapper / Wagner will be aware that conceding that many per game also puts additional pressure on forward players which maybe lends itself to big chances being missed (I'm speculating).

So it doesn't surprise me that we played so defensively against QPR. I'm disappointed we didn't try and control via possession but then we were poor on the ball yet not too bad off it - QPR didn't really create anything of note through the middle which has been our downfall all season. I think it was our lowest xGA (exp goals against) for 13 or so games. Since Rotherham, basically. But we also only created one really good chance ourselves - and it's a fair argument that QPR were poor.

I suspect the idea was to allow us to counter with pace but Onel struggled and Rowe was out injured.

 

[CirclePoint 205]

4 hours ago, kenfoggo said:

Watford 0 Norwich 7! Our fantastical, exciting style of attacking football will prove too much for a drab , out of form opposition. Our goal machine front line will knock them in for fun and our back four will hardly need to show their vastly superior skills as our dynamic midfield will protect them from ever having to touch the ball. I predict that 80% of the game will be played in Watford’s defensive half and our keeper will not need to get his gloves or his knees dirty. Hurrah!

I’ll take two of what he’s having. Thanks.😂

[Hardhouse44 261]

Think Watford will win comfortably without having to get out of second gear.

I suspect we’re due to concede an early goal again and then they will pick us off a couple of more times during the match. 

[CanaryNath 30]

Can see Watford getting a morale-boosting 4-0 win - gulp. 

[norfolkngood 1,091]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think he'll have looked at the fact over the season we average 1.9, basically 2 goals conceded every game.

Attacking we average 1.8 - we create 2.2 big chances per game and miss on average 1.2.

We've only scored a single goal from outside the area all season.

I think the poor performance vs QPR is partially because the focus has been on not conceding 2 goals per game. It asks too much of the front players, who try to over-compensate, and leave bigger gaps as the first defensive pressing shield and leads to the disasters of QPR and to a lesser extent Leeds. Psychologically I'm sure Knapper / Wagner will be aware that conceding that many per game also puts additional pressure on forward players which maybe lends itself to big chances being missed (I'm speculating).

So it doesn't surprise me that we played so defensively against QPR. I'm disappointed we didn't try and control via possession but then we were poor on the ball yet not too bad off it - QPR didn't really create anything of note through the middle which has been our downfall all season. I think it was our lowest xGA (exp goals against) for 13 or so games. Since Rotherham, basically. But we also only created one really good chance ourselves - and it's a fair argument that QPR were poor.

I suspect the idea was to allow us to counter with pace but Onel struggled and Rowe was out injured.

 

Cheers Hog 

seems it is not as bad when you look as stats as the Performance we see with our eyes which is important as you do not see everything and every game close up ,

your comment

I think the poor performance vs QPR is partially because the focus has been on not conceding 2 goals per game. It asks too much of the front players, who try to over-compensate, and leave bigger gaps as the first defensive pressing shield and leads to the disasters of QPR

i think a CDM would do that job sniff out any danger but allow others to push forward i hope knapper is a CDM man as i feel we miss that protection ( not that i think we have a player good enough yet )

 

[Capt. Pants 4,284]

11 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Cheers Hog 

seems it is not as bad when you look as stats as the Performance we see with our eyes which is important as you do not see everything and every game close up ,

your comment

I think the poor performance vs QPR is partially because the focus has been on not conceding 2 goals per game. It asks too much of the front players, who try to over-compensate, and leave bigger gaps as the first defensive pressing shield and leads to the disasters of QPR

i think a CDM would do that job sniff out any danger but allow others to push forward i hope knapper is a CDM man as i feel we miss that protection ( not that i think we have a player good enough yet )

 

Who would you drop though to accomodate a CDM? I can't see McLean or Sara being dropped. Playing 2 up top, or even Barnes as a no.10 along with 2 wingers does leave us short in midfield - certainly not very Arsenal.

It would be an option if we were trying to protect a lead though. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

The answer is no