McLean at CDM

[Worthy Nigelton 1,077]

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Kenny and my thoughts on this are not worth saying, but I'm interested in what other people think about his reinvention as a CDM. Especially his biggest defenders/fans.

Does anyone think he's doing well there or that it's been a success utilising him in this quarter-back type role? Is he the best we've got in that position? Is he undroppable? Should he be undroppable if he is? What does this say about the Forshaw signing? What does it mean for Gibbs? Is the lack of a ball-winning number 6 the reason for our defensive problems? Should he really be playing number 8 like he was previously? 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

As was the case last season...against the poorer sides in this league where we will dominate the ball, we'll get away with him there, against the better sides, they'll cut through our midfield and expose us.

Ideally in that midfield partnership , you want one specialist defensive midfielder ( a Skipp/Tettey) and then one who can break forward and link the attack ...(Sara)

In McLean we have a player who is average to poor in the defensive discipline and average offensively ...a master of none.

[Ulfotto 644]

Lots of things are wrong at the moment. Kenny McLean has not been one of them for almost 18 months now.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,865]

He's doing as well as he can there, but he's being asked to do too many things at once. He's often left exposed due to the current tactics but has still been one of our better players this season.

[hogesar 9,766]

Kenny is probably the last problem on the long list this season. For someone who's not a natural CDM, he's also not being played in that role anyway. He's being played in 3 different ones and been one of our better players this season.

[Capt. Pants 4,297]

He's undroppable because rightly or wrongly he's the best we have in that position. Whilst Kenny is far from perfect, he has a far better passing range than Forshaw or Gibbs. 

[ZLF 275]

Kenny is great at the distribution side and starting the moves, but is a poor defensive midfielder at disrupting attacks and winning the ball back.   He covers the ground and puts in the effort but his strengths have always been going forward.

And of the fit available options he is good at one of the two requirements in the deep role,  so the best of the available options.  It is leaving defensive chasms though

Edited October 25, 2023 by ZLF

[nutty nigel 7,646]

1 minute ago, ZLF said:

Kenny is great at the distribution side and starting the moves, but is a poor defensive midfielder at disrupting attacks and winning the ball back.   He covers the ground and puts in the effort but his strengths have always been going forward.

Which is why I am still struggling with Leeds third goal. If Forshaw was to be introduced at 2-1 to partner Kenny as a more defensive option the fact it was 2-2 doesn't excuse him being 30 yards behind the ball as they broke.

[S_81 889]

I genuinely wonder whether Gibson would be better off pushed up to CDM. His passing is often a better part of his game. But as the last line of defence he’s unreliable too often. I think in front of the likes of Warner he could be handy, given the lack of personnel we have for the position 

Edited October 25, 2023 by S_81

[Midlands Yellow 4,104]

Have we tried him as a striker yet? Nothing to lose as it stands. 

[shefcanary 2,468]

I've said this elsewhere, but to repeat it. McLean and Sara should really be competing for the same place, but neither are currently playing in that position! If we had a proper CDM in a proper structure meeting the squads true capability, Sara would be in the team, McLean would be on the bench as cover for him. McLean was bought as an attacking midfielder as was Sara. Sara ultimately is the better player. Oh for a proper CDM.

[ZLF 275]

9 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Which is why I am still struggling with Leeds third goal. If Forshaw was to be introduced at 2-1 to partner Kenny as a more defensive option the fact it was 2-2 doesn't excuse him being 30 yards behind the ball as they broke.

I've never seen forshaw as a def midfielder, he is a low quality kenny without the mobility or range of passing.

Forshaws problem was to choose to attack the ball halfway inside the leeds half when having no chance of getting to it first when he was effectively the last man.   That is not the mindset of a cdm or in a team coached properly.

[nutty nigel 7,646]

52 minutes ago, ZLF said:

I've never seen forshaw as a def midfielder, he is a low quality kenny without the mobility or range of passing.

Forshaws problem was to choose to attack the ball halfway inside the leeds half when having no chance of getting to it first when he was effectively the last man.   That is not the mindset of a cdm or in a team coached properly.

Sometimes a team has to make decisions regardless of coaching. Players have to take responsibility in the moment. That third Leeds goal annoyed me more than the stupid mistake goals like Boros first last night. Playing for the point wouldn't have pleased the crowd but losing was worse.

[ZLF 275]

Agree, it was a poor  decision and a poor goal all round

[Petriix 2,853]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Kenny is probably the last problem on the long list this season. For someone who's not a natural CDM, he's also not being played in that role anyway. He's being played in 3 different ones and been one of our better players this season.

I totally disagree with this. I think Kenny (and his role) is exactly what's wrong. He runs around a lot and gets involved in the play but his distribution is pretty limited and he makes a high number of positional errors. Yes, he's exposed by the system we're playing, but that just validates the view that he's not the right kind of player for that role. 

[Jim Smith 2,345]

It works at times (particularly when we are in possession) when he’s really disciplined but the problem is twofold. One, he’s not that disciplined and tends to get drawn forward (to be fair he’s probably being asked to). Two, he’s not really a “tackler” and always seems quite easy to byepass.

The issue we have is it’s too easy for teams to draw out Kenny and Sara and be running at our defence, often on the back of only one or two passes which open us up or sometimes just due to us passing the ball to them. 
 

Kenny has done a job at times there for us but it’s not his natural forte and we would in my view improve hugely if we had Forshaw sitting in front of the back four. 

[hogesar 9,766]

13 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It works at times (particularly when we are in possession) when he’s really disciplined but the problem is twofold. One, he’s not that disciplined and tends to get drawn forward (to be fair he’s probably being asked to). Two, he’s not really a “tackler” and always seems quite easy to byepass.

The issue we have is it’s too easy for teams to draw out Kenny and Sara and be running at our defence, often on the back of only one or two passes which open us up or sometimes just due to us passing the ball to them. 
 

Kenny has done a job at times there for us but it’s not his natural forte and we would in my view improve hugely if we had Forshaw sitting in front of the back four. 

Although Forshaw was guilty of exactly what you describe Kenny doing when he came on against Leeds. Ultimately I don't think any player makes a huge difference to us in that position unless we change tactically - we're asking the "cdm" in Kenny's position to drive with the ball and break through the press at times. 

[Jim Smith 2,345]

31 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Although Forshaw was guilty of exactly what you describe Kenny doing when he came on against Leeds. Ultimately I don't think any player makes a huge difference to us in that position unless we change tactically - we're asking the "cdm" in Kenny's position to drive with the ball and break through the press at times. 

Yes I know he was but a big different when on late in the match as a sub after multiple changes to starting the game in a well structured line up. 
 

Forshaw may not be ideal long term but he’s the best we have in that role in my view if given a clear brief. Unless Sorensen comes back in. There was 50 minutes or so at Swansea where our midfield was dominant with him alongside Kenny and Sara more advanced.

The full backs need to track/get back better as well and we need to stop passing to the opposition in our own half!

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

11 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Have we tried him as a striker yet? Nothing to lose as it stands. 

Isn’t Gibbs next in line for that from our wonderful manager? 

[The Bristol Nest 518]

McLean doesn't need defenders or fans. He needs head coaches to pick him for every game, which they all do. 

I am sorry if you don't understand why that is.

[lake district canary 4,551]

Under Farke, when it worked at it's best, anyone in the team could maraud forwards and someone would drop back to take their place - it was poetry in motion the way players interchanged. That is the ideal and yes, I know it didn't always work under Farke, especially in the PL, but that good interchange of players proves they are working as a team - that they are thinking correctly, playing in the present moment and not chasing around like headless chickens, leaving gaps and big spaces.

My biggest complaint about the way we play now is that there isn't enough composure when we have possession - the teamwork goes missing. Middsbro are a good team - composed, calm, efficient - and now through their bad patch are showing how it's done. We're struggling, no doubt, but Kenny isn't to blame for it.

[king canary 7,680]

It clearly isn't really working as we're getting cut open week after week and shipping goals with abandon.

It isn't Kenny's fault that it isn't working- he's not a natural in this position and he's not helped by the surrounding cast and the system. But it isn't working non the less.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

4 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

McLean doesn't need defenders or fans. He needs head coaches to pick him for every game, which they all do. 

I am sorry if you don't understand why that is.

...and yet when Wagner gets sacked in the next few weeks, he'll be the third manager sacked in a row for, in no small part, not improving upon that significant area of midfield.

Maybe the next manager might pay some more attention to addressing it

[The Bristol Nest 518]

Agreed. We need a specialist cdm. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,077]

1 hour ago, The Bristol Nest said:

McLean doesn't need defenders or fans. He needs head coaches to pick him for every game, which they all do. 

I am sorry if you don't understand why that is.

True and when Wagner is gone in a few weeks, we'll be on number four in what, two years? Maybe they're not getting it right?

To me, Kenny has all the hallmarks of when Farke came in and binned Russell Martin. Part of the furniture, clubman, good in the dressing room, top pro and all that but not good enough and it will take a braver, more ruthless, better manager to suss it out and wield the axe. Hopefully we hire one this time.

[hogesar 9,766]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...and yet when Wagner gets sacked in the next few weeks, he'll be the third manager sacked in a row for, in no small part, not improving upon that significant area of midfield.

Maybe the next manager might pay some more attention to addressing it

I can almost guarantee Mclean continues to start the strong majority of games when the next manager comes in.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

43 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I can almost guarantee Mclean continues to start the strong majority of games when the next manager comes in.

....lets just hope its not deployed in the position where he currently is....

[Number9 272]

43 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I can almost guarantee Mclean continues to start the strong majority of games when the next manager comes in.

Unless the new SD brings in a long overdue CDM to rectify the mistakes of the past few years.

Let's face it, we have better attacking / creative players than Kenny, maybe he's gonna be our new goalie, he hasn't funked up that position yet.