6 wins in 23

[norfolkngood 1,087]

11 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

A Good Manager would adapt his tactics to suit the players he has Available 

Wagner is playing the same way and expecting the same results ,

 

 

Don't worry Idah's night tonight !! 

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 minute ago, norfolkngood said:

Wagner is playing the same way and expecting the same results

We brought him in as we wanted a manager to define a style of play and rigid system as we were fed up with Smith's entirely reactive/unidentifiable system. 

I'm afraid he's doing what it says on the tin, and yes it is very frustrating, but just as per Farke you have to provide coach's like this with the players as they are not reactive types but stubborn and extremely regimented based on their beleifs.

When it works well, it works very well, as we've seen in the past.  This thread is basically asking whether you bring a guy like that into the club, not provide him suitable squad depth to support his system and then dismiss him?

As I see it, we're now in the period where we'll start to see players coming back, Sainz probably play tonight hopefully, Barnes can't be far off and there will be talk of Sarge in a few weeks.

We were 2 up on Leeds let's not forget, and that's playing with second choice players in offensive areas.  The game flipped with the subs they were able to bring on - not just fresh legs, but class players.   We're down to third choice players at that point, it's a really massive factor.

[nutty nigel 7,536]

You need to get with it Bootsy. Apparently we can now count games he's won as lost because we didn't deserve to win them. So that's 0 wins in 23. Taking that forward it will be 0 wins in 46.

What a season to be alive!

Who's going to the inevitable loss tonight?

Edited October 24, 2023 by nutty nigel

[Thirsty Lizard 3,165]

15 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

A Good Manager would adapt his tactics to suit the players he has Available 

Wagner is playing the same way and expecting the same results ,

 

 

Farke never adapted his tactics in the Championship did he? It was pretty bang average in his first season, but he kept at it (and with the help of brilliant Webber signings like Buendia and Pukki) it worked out spectacularly well the following season.

Wagner may or may not work out in the longer term, but he has to be given a decent amount of time - the alternative is Watford!!

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Farke never adapted his tactics in the Championship did he? It was pretty bang average in his first season, but he kept at it (and with the help of brilliant Webber signings like Buendia and Pukki) it worked out spectacularly well the following season.

Wagner may or may not work out in the longer term, but he has to be given a decent amount of time - the alternative is Watford!!

 

7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

We brought him in as we wanted a manager to define a style of play and rigid system as we were fed up with Smith's entirely reactive/unidentifiable system. 

I'm afraid he's doing what it says on the tin, and yes it is very frustrating, but just as per Farke you have to provide coach's like this with the players as they are not reactive types but stubborn and extremely regimented based on their beleifs.

When it works well, it works very well, as we've seen in the past.  This thread is basically asking whether you bring a guy like that into the club, not provide him suitable squad depth to support his system and then dismiss him?

As I see it, we're now in the period where we'll start to see players coming back, Sainz probably play tonight hopefully, Barnes can't be far off and there will be talk of Sarge in a few weeks.

We were 2 up on Leeds let's not forget, and that's playing with second choice players in offensive areas.  The game flipped with the subs they were able to bring on - not just fresh legs, but class players.   We're down to third choice players at that point, it's a really massive factor.

Sorry that sounded totally wrong , i did not mean throw away his tactics totally just adapt slightly , 

he was brought in with that style i agree ,

but when you are a losing streak play a CDM , play a little. longer bit more direct ,

2-0 up pack the midfield to stop players running at CB's ,

If Idah's strength ( whatever it is )  play that way until Saarge is back because you are not getting the best out of the player ,

 

 

sorry for not making it clear i didn't mean throw away Wagners style i meant add or adapt slightly to suit 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

I do not disagree that things are not good at the moment but I fail to understand the significance of the last 23 games, other than to make a point, I suspect that if had been the last say 30 games it would include February and March where we only lost 1 in 8 games. It is also across two seasons, so again that skews the statistics and ignores August where we did no lose a single game. I agree that Wagner is part of the problem, however sacking him lets Webber off the hook again, I personally lay most of the blame at his door as the loss of Barnes, Hanley and Sarge has exposed how paper thin our squad is. We have yet another Head Coach that has not got the weapons he needs to mount a serious challenge, any sensible Director of Football would know it is inevitable that injuries will occur over a season and make provision for adequate replacements, unfortunately he has pissed the money up the wall again and Delia has let him, the sooner that Webber and Delia are gone the better as far as I am concerned..............

Edited October 24, 2023 by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB

[Google Bot 3,278]

6 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

sorry for not making it clear i didn't mean throw away Wagners style i meant add or adapt slightly to suit 

Whatever he adapts to, still has to be within the confines of the players on the pitch though. 

Going more more direct could just be gifting the opposition more time on the ball, without respite.  And it would be moving away from a plan that he's seeking to develop, who's cornerstone starts with controlling the ball and moving it around at the back.  Once you deviate it's easy to find yourself bouncing from wall to wall and losing all sense of identity which we were wanting.

I think the real conundrum he has is how to play to Idah or Hwang's strengths to generate chances.

To my mind they're completely different players, Idah isn't clinical enough to feed from long/direct play.  He seems much better in a forward pairing.  And Hwang certainly seems to be more like Pukki in that his movement so we'd need to completely redevelop to suit his strengths.  Chalk and cheese, really.

In Sarge and Barnes we had the perfect pairing for this team and Idah could interchange with one of those as a secondary act.  I just don't know what the answer is when we're having to rely on the likes of Gibbs, Onel, Idah and Hwang, plus we know Rowe is only good for 60-70 mins.

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that we do play the direct ball when it's on, a few times this season we've seen that long diagonal ball played with Dimi making the run and he's came close to scoring from it also.  I guess you're wanting to see more direct balls to see if Idah could cope with them perhaps?

[nutty nigel 7,536]

5 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Whatever he adapts to, still has to be within the confines of the players on the pitch though. 

Going more more direct could just be gifting the opposition more time on the ball, without respite.  And it would be moving away from a plan that he's seeking to develop, who's cornerstone starts with controlling the ball and moving it around at the back.  Once you deviate it's easy to find yourself bouncing from wall to wall and losing all sense of identity which we were wanting.

I think the real conundrum he has is how to play to Idah or Hwang's strengths to generate chances.

To my mind they're completely different players, Idah isn't clinical enough to feed from long/direct play.  He seems much better in a forward pairing.  And Hwang certainly seems to be more like Pukki in that his movement so we'd need to completely redevelop to suit his strengths.  Chalk and cheese, really.

In Sarge and Barnes we had the perfect pairing for this team and Idah could interchange with one of those as a secondary act.  I just don't know what the answer is when we're having to rely on the likes of Gibbs, Onel, Idah and Hwang, plus we know Rowe is only good for 60-70 mins.

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that we do play the direct ball when it's on, a few times this season we've seen that long diagonal ball played with Dimi making the run and he's came close to scoring from it also.  I guess you're wanting to see more direct balls to see if Idah could cope with them perhaps?

Well I thought we did ok Saturday. Just shot ourselves in the foot defensively. Especially their third which was due to us going kamikaze for a winner. Thought Idah was good but I appreciate some will say he was anonymous if he doesn't score regardless of what he does during the game. 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Well I thought we did ok Saturday. Just shot ourselves in the foot defensively. Especially their third which was due to us going kamikaze for a winner. Thought Idah was good but I appreciate some will say he was anonymous if he doesn't score regardless of what he does during the game. 

I think you need to add in wayward finishing by Leeds in the first half, they missed at least three very good chances. We really should not be talking about going for a win in a game we were 2-0 up in, the consensus of opinion amongst the people I sit with at half time was "two is not enough". Agree what you say re Idah, he strikes me that he is a "confidence player" that is low on confidence at the moment and maybe trying that bit too hard, for his sake I hope he tucks one away soon and get his confidence back............

[Google Bot 3,278]

30 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Thought Idah was good but I appreciate some will say he was anonymous if he doesn't score regardless of what he does during the game.

His general play is fine and he's certainly trying, but he's third choice behind Barnes and Sarge, and we need to take that into account when deciding to bash the coach.

While it's tempting to try, I think going more direct with him leading the line would be of detriment to him.  Somehow he's found himself in the position where he's become used to losing the ball and missing sitters and I don't know how we turn that around and place more pressure and expectation on him to perform as a top 6 forward.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Google Bot

[Robert N. LiM 4,356]

4 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

rant over 

I don't believe you

[stratton canary 134]

4 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Depressing... relegation form 

Absolutely, but it seems only to matter to the fans, get the board "clear out" started! 

[For the future 65]

Any normal job the manager would have got the sack 

[Cowboy 197]

2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I'm not really one for tagging stats from one season to another as there will be a summer period where there will be a transfer window and weeks of pre season training in between for a manager to implement tactics,signings etc moreso when its that manager's first pre season

However purely this season as a stand alone , he has to be on thin ice.

If he shows that he cannot stem the goals/chances being conceded ,it will ultimately do for him

He cant afford 2 more defeats this week

What does span the gap between two seasons though, is player and squad morale. It probably shouldn't do, but it definitely does.

[Number9 272]

11 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

What does span the gap between two seasons though, is player and squad morale. It probably shouldn't do, but it definitely does.

Player & squad morale was supposedly resolved by the addition of Barnes et al.

It was also supposed to solve Idah's issues and make him a street wise free scoring striker.

 

[Mike w 46]

2 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

A Good Manager would adapt his tactics to suit the players he has Available 

Wagner is playing the same way and expecting the same results ,

 

 

absolutely correct. managers should consider the who is available and adapt suitably.

[Cowboy 197]

13 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Player & squad morale was supposedly resolved by the addition of Barnes et al.

It was also supposed to solve Idah's issues and make him a street wise free scoring striker.

 

Ah, I must have missed those two upgrades.

[Monty13 2,234]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

We brought him in as we wanted a manager to define a style of play and rigid system as we were fed up with Smith's entirely reactive/unidentifiable system. 

I'm afraid he's doing what it says on the tin, and yes it is very frustrating, but just as per Farke you have to provide coach's like this with the players as they are not reactive types but stubborn and extremely regimented based on their beleifs.

When it works well, it works very well, as we've seen in the past.  This thread is basically asking whether you bring a guy like that into the club, not provide him suitable squad depth to support his system and then dismiss him?

As I see it, we're now in the period where we'll start to see players coming back, Sainz probably play tonight hopefully, Barnes can't be far off and there will be talk of Sarge in a few weeks.

We were 2 up on Leeds let's not forget, and that's playing with second choice players in offensive areas.  The game flipped with the subs they were able to bring on - not just fresh legs, but class players.   We're down to third choice players at that point, it's a really massive factor.

Yep that’s the issue, it’s why expect Wagner to go at some point but I don’t really blame him.

We have pinned everything on a philosophy that to me we look entirely incapable of playing without Sargent.

We don’t have the fitness levels or the players to play this way. 

We still have the core of a Farke side, with a number of players brought in to play under Smiths philosophy and now Wagner’s.

The more you look at it to me the lack of continuity from Farke’s dismissal is as big an issue as the sequence of events that led to him being sacked.

We didn’t have the players to play Smiths way and we don’t have the players to play Wagner’s way.

We didn’t/don’t have any money to buy them either.

Just wtf are we doing.

[Google Bot 3,278]

21 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Just wtf are we doing.

Transitioning without anyone leading the plan, I think.... Knapper needs to be quite decisive when it comes to taking control, to give Webber his credit he set out his stall early and we knew what was going on and I hope that is replicated.

Right now,  I don't know what expectations or plans the club has. 

It seems that we're caught somewhere between saving money with the hope that we can scrape playoffs,  There's a big difference between someone like Zoe saying "Of course we want to get promotion" vs actually planning and building for it.

[nutty nigel 7,536]

1 hour ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I think you need to add in wayward finishing by Leeds in the first half, they missed at least three very good chances. We really should not be talking about going for a win in a game we were 2-0 up in, the consensus of opinion amongst the people I sit with at half time was "two is not enough". Agree what you say re Idah, he strikes me that he is a "confidence player" that is low on confidence at the moment and maybe trying that bit too hard, for his sake I hope he tucks one away soon and get his confidence back............

Then you need to add that we also had at other chances and a goal disallowed.

[Monty13 2,234]

14 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Transitioning without anyone leading the plan, I think.... Knapper needs to be quite decisive when it comes to taking control, to give Webber his credit he set out his stall early and we knew what was going on and I hope that is replicated.

Right now,  I don't know what expectations or plans the club has. 

It seems that we're caught somewhere between saving money with the hope that we can scrape playoffs,  There's a big difference between someone like Zoe saying "Of course we want to get promotion" vs actually planning and building for it.

100% agree we need Knapper to come in and install a clear direction. Being a PL club is what you want ti achieve, it gives no blueprint for how you get there.

I think we have only been transitioning away from a philosophy since Buendia was sold, I don’t think we had any clear plan what we were transitioning to other than the rather nebulous idea that we wanted to be harder to beat at PL level.

The constant change in philosophy must be incredibly hard to work under. I wonder what affect it’s having not only on the first team players and coaches but in the U23s and wider academy.

I believe in continuous improvement, but only works when you know what you’re trying to achieve.

[pete 319]

Need to be more solid a factor seemingly beyond Wagner.  There are things that can be tried in pursuance of solidity but we are still adapting to tactics that don't work with the personnel available, basically the personnel are not good enough.

As for Sargent if we see him this side of Xmas will be a welcome sign.

[repman 635]

The big thing for me is that 2 summers in a row we've let a manager carry on when they had done nothing to suggest they'd earned the right to do so. There were plenty of excuses, from saying they deserved to 'get their own players in' as the squad didn't suit their style of play or people putting it down to injuries. For a well coached sides these may be bumps in the road, they shouldn't derail absolutely everything.

[rock bus 852]

4 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Agree what you say re Idah, he strikes me that he is a "confidence player" that is low on confidence at the moment and maybe trying that bit too hard, for his sake I hope he tucks one away soon and get his confidence back............

I honestly think we need to move on from this 'confidence player' view point... I hoped that was the case but let's be honest he just isnt very good!

The only way he may gain confidence is if he drops down a league or even two. Maybe then he will be a decent goal scorer and he could end up blooming like Morris at Luton. But whilst he is playing for us all he is going to show week after week is that he isnt up to Championship level. Saturday was a good example, yes he did the odd decent thing but I dont think he really troubled their defence that much. Most importantly when he got the chance to put the ball in the net he missed an almost open goal. Yes, it would've been ruled out for offside but the reason he missed wasn't due that or a lack of confidence, it's because he isnt a very good striker.

If Wagner is going to improve our performance then I'm afraid that Idah has been given the chance and now needs to be dropped.

[Midlands Yellow 3,985]

13 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I honestly think we need to move on from this 'confidence player' view point... I hoped that was the case but let's be honest he just isnt very good!

The only way he may gain confidence is if he drops down a league or even two. Maybe then he will be a decent goal scorer and he could end up blooming like Morris at Luton. But whilst he is playing for us all he is going to show week after week is that he isnt up to Championship level. Saturday was a good example, yes he did the odd decent thing but I dont think he really troubled their defence that much. Most importantly when he got the chance to put the ball in the net he missed an almost open goal. Yes, it would've been ruled out for offside but the reason he missed wasn't due that or a lack of confidence, it's because he isnt a very good striker.

If Wagner is going to improve our performance then I'm afraid that Idah has been given the chance and now needs to be dropped.

When team sheets are swapped I’m sure the opposition coach likes to see his name on it. Doesn’t bully defenders, snaps at chances and lacks a footballing brain. Vey overrated and a league one player at best. 

[NorfBhoy66 7]

employ the ladies manager more, he knows how to win

[NorfBhoy66 7]

sorry but several players are more equiped to help King Lynn out at their level, no disgrace to Steve Cleve and Kings Lynn

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Now 6 in 24 - that’s relegation form 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Now 6 in 24 - that’s relegation form 

Except some of those 24 games were last season!!, one win the last 9 games is relegation form, you need to let last season go mate............

[king canary 7,607]

22 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Wagner may or may not work out in the longer term, but he has to be given a decent amount of time - the alternative is Watford!!

But...why?

I can understand giving managers time if we're confident they are working towards something. But what signs can we see that Wagner has a long term plan he's getting the players working towards? He had a large chunk of last season to assess the players, he's had fresh blood added this summer and a full pre-season to get his team playing his way and...it just isn't working? You don't have to give managers time just for the sake of it.