VAR at it again….

[wr4sb 33]

One thing that is always missing in this debate is how many ex-players go into refereeing. I always hear the excuse, referees have never played the game. OK then, well you have so you become a referee... But no, it's easier and more lucrative to be pundits or (bad?) Managers... Guess there would be claims of bias then... 

[Big O 225]

See Liverpool are showing their class as ever. It’s effectively no different in my eyes to the non goal that effectively kept villa up when the ball had clearly gone over the line.

VAR made a major balls up - simples and this was a howler because it was a factual decision rather than a subjective / opinion one. They have to find out what went wrong but every club has hd bad decisions- just get on with it 

[wr4sb 33]

I saw that. Sporting integrity... what a joke statement that is, poor hard done by Liverpool. 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

18 hours ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

VAR needs a complete reset. The whole industry needs to get around a screen and agree how VAR is used, and how VAR decisions are reached

I believe that the cameras used for offside decisions need to take more shots per second, to increase the accuracy of photographs. The players all wear the technology to map their movement around the pitch. How about revising the offside rule so that it relates to the centre of the player's torso and use this location data.

Hooper was only shown the still shot of Jones' boot impacting the Spurs player's leg, which looked terrible, but the whole sequence shows how his foot slipped off the top of the ball - it was an accident, it was not deliberate and not malicious - so yes give Jones a yellow for not being in full control of his movements, but don't upgrade it to a red. Hooper had no choice, because the decision was made for him. This reminds me of when Emi was sent off against Burnley at home - the ref was only shown the footage of Emi's revenge on Tarkowski (?) and not the violent provocation beforehand, which probably should have seen them both sent off.

This winds me up too. The VAR official always picks the most damning image, shows it in super slow mo and basically tells the on pitch ref what they are looking for. It becomes inevitable that the on pitch ref will give the decision that the VAR official thinks is right (usually reversing their decision) when it is supposed to be the on pitch official who reviews and makes the decision. Most fouls look bad in super slo mo. 

[Mr_Biff1961 11]

While I totally agree that Darren England made a mistake in confirming that the check was complete and the original decision should stand as he thought the goal had been given,,,,, IF There was no VAR,,,,, the original decision was offside and so the goal will have been disallowed.

[A Load of Squit 5,224]

The only way to ensure VAR works is to have someone qualified checking the decisions the VAR makes.

This VAR for the VAR would once and for all remove any doubt that the decision has been ratified using the new Multiple Official Referee Outcome Notification system.

Once an acronym is agreed the system will be implemented.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Sporting integrity? Joke. What does it mean? 

[TheRock 171]

Until its a transparent process with audible conversation like the TMO in Rugby, eyebrows will always be raised as to the integrity of VAR and how it is being implemented by PGMOL's officials.

 

Instead of being used to verify decisions, VAR is being used to as a tool to re-referee the games which when it was introduced, we were told would not happen. Slowing down bad challenges is a prime example.

 

Unfortunately if THREE VAR officials failed from the footage to notice that Diaz's goal was given as offside and failed to ask the Referee to momentarily pause for clarity, then they are totally incompentent. 

 

VAR is a big reason for me why the games's gone at the top level (as well as Saudi Teams now wading in, offering players salaries that even dwarf NFL and NBA salaries...). It is only a matter of time before the Saudi Teams will be invited to play in the Champions League.

Edited October 2, 2023 by TheRock

[Yellow Wal 314]

If it were not for VAR far more younger, and better, referees would be officiating at higher levels. 

VAR is so often a get out for referees. If they make a mistake quite often it can be rectified.

The better referees make fewer mistakes but younger ones have to wait for retirement to progress. (Unless you have good connections!)

Many of the top referees, Simon Hooper and Darren England come to mind, would be relegated to lower football if not for VAR.

If a striker consistently misses goals he gets dropped. If a referee consistently makes mistakes VAR helps him out and he keeps refereeing at the standard he is at.

[Nuff Said 5,191]

14 hours ago, wr4sb said:

One thing that is always missing in this debate is how many ex-players go into refereeing. I always hear the excuse, referees have never played the game. OK then, well you have so you become a referee... But no, it's easier and more lucrative to be pundits or (bad?) Managers... Guess there would be claims of bias then... 

Good point, there seems to be quite few ex-players who are umpires in cricket. 

[shefcanary 2,496]

4 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

This winds me up too. The VAR official always picks the most damning image, shows it in super slow mo and basically tells the on pitch ref what they are looking for. It becomes inevitable that the on pitch ref will give the decision that the VAR official thinks is right (usually reversing their decision) when it is supposed to be the on pitch official who reviews and makes the decision. Most fouls look bad in super slo mo. 

Watching the RWC over the weekend and it is interesting how the on field referee insists on seeing as many views as possible and even asks for real-time and slow-mo. Do PGMOL liaise with their Rugby counterparts on this - if they don't they should do PDQ, learn from the experts.

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

Once more with feeling.

So much of football refereeing is about the judgment of the referee, rather than applying a black-and-white law.

VAR just swaps the judgment of the on-field ref for the judgment of the guy in the van. It's never going to lead to perfect decision-making, because that can't exist in football.

Let the on-field ref decide. Suck up the mistakes and get on with it. It's still just a game.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

43 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Once more with feeling.

So much of football refereeing is about the judgment of the referee, rather than applying a black-and-white law.

VAR just swaps the judgment of the on-field ref for the judgment of the guy in the van. It's never going to lead to perfect decision-making, because that can't exist in football.

Let the on-field ref decide. Suck up the mistakes and get on with it. It's still just a game.

Exactly. Would the game be worse off without VAR? Well three quarters of the leagues get by without it. Would the game function without referees? No. Tell the stupid, moaning bunch of coaches, players and pundits to get on with it. Liverpool became a top side that dominated football for a decade or so and had to put up with many glaring errors. Blimey, Leeds lost a league title because of a goal where the player who scored was miles offside. But there again you could argue they should have got more points earlier. Or maybe they were top only because of a decision that went against their rivals.

I am totally sick to death of the bellyaching of the top clubs. They try and avoid paying tax and clubs further down go bust because they can't pay theirs. Just shut up the lot of you.

[Ken Hairy 3,782]

Whether you like Liverpool or not is irrelevant,  what VAR have said about not intervening with the goal because they hadn't realised it'd had been disallowed is just shocking. 

Darren England should be sacked with immediate effect.

[Ken Hairy 3,782]

4 hours ago, Mr_Biff1961 said:

While I totally agree that Darren England made a mistake in confirming that the check was complete and the original decision should stand as he thought the goal had been given,,,,, IF There was no VAR,,,,, the original decision was offside and so the goal will have been disallowed.

Would it though? A lot of time they're either guessing a bit, or bottling a decision totally knowing that VAR will sort it out (supposedly) if they're wrong.

Saying that it's a lot more palatable to accept the lino getting it wrong as opposed to 3 or 4 idiots watching it back and still getting it wrong. 

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 528]

5 hours ago, Yellow Wal said:

If it were not for VAR far more younger, and better, referees would be officiating at higher levels. 

VAR is so often a get out for referees. If they make a mistake quite often it can be rectified.

The better referees make fewer mistakes but younger ones have to wait for retirement to progress. (Unless you have good connections!)

Many of the top referees, Simon Hooper and Darren England come to mind, would be relegated to lower football if not for VAR.

If a striker consistently misses goals he gets dropped. If a referee consistently makes mistakes VAR helps him out and he keeps refereeing at the standard he is at.

Therein lies the problem. The words "top referees" and those names should never be in the same sentence without another word, such as "unlike" in-between them.

[nutty nigel 7,653]

8 hours ago, Mr_Biff1961 said:

While I totally agree that Darren England made a mistake in confirming that the check was complete and the original decision should stand as he thought the goal had been given,,,,, IF There was no VAR,,,,, the original decision was offside and so the goal will have been disallowed.

As it should be! Quick glance at the Lino. No flag and you can let rip and celebrate or let rip about him needing specsavers.

But of course that was in the day when any doubt would be given to the attacker. Now it seems any doubt will be given to the VAR room. So the Lino can put up his flag and pass the buck. So I’m not convinced that or any decision would have been the same without VAR.

 

[essex canary 508]

Where is the huge demand to be a match official? It's too much like hard work. Much easier money to be a media pundit, an agent or an administrator.

[Indy 3,323]

6 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Sporting integrity? Joke. What does it mean? 

Exactly what Mr Biff said..

While I totally agree that Darren England made a mistake in confirming that the check was complete and the original decision should stand as he thought the goal had been given,,,,, IF There was no VAR,,,,, the original decision was offside and so the goal will have been disallowed
 

Liverpool have asked for audio because of the above, it doesn’t make sense as the on field was disallowed and he was checking if it was offside! I’m no great Liverpool lover but it’s about time a team didn’t accept an ****e apology and push it further hopefully it will get the VAR institution to look at how it’s implemented.

The answer is do away with offside and make the entire pitch available for far more open game!

Edited October 2, 2023 by Indy

[Conrad 179]

9 hours ago, Mr_Biff1961 said:

While I totally agree that Darren England made a mistake in confirming that the check was complete and the original decision should stand as he thought the goal had been given,,,,, IF There was no VAR,,,,, the original decision was offside and so the goal will have been disallowed.

But that is why VAR was brought in, to rectify clear and obvious errors. It could be argued that the initial error was with the linesman who should not have flagged, allowing play to develop and only flagging after the 'goal' had been scored. Mistakes all around with this one. 

 

Anyway this disallowed goal was entirely a human error. One that the system should have prevented, the 2nd and 3rd VAR officials should have noticed the error and rectified it immediately. All 3 VAR officials are culpable. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Whether you like Liverpool or not is irrelevant,  what VAR have said about not intervening with the goal because they hadn't realised it'd had been disallowed is just shocking. 

Darren England should be sacked with immediate effect.

Why should he be sacked? 

[Peregrine Shorts 332]

The way we’re going it’s only a matter of time before a game is replayed because of a VAR error

[Ken Hairy 3,782]

55 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why should he be sacked? 

Because he's got a long history of not just incompetence but of not knowing the rules and in this case not even paying attention to the game. If I showed this level of continuous incompetence in my job I'd expect and deserve the sack.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

Because he's got a long history of not just incompetence but of not knowing the rules and in this case not even paying attention to the game. If I showed this level of continuous incompetence in my job I'd expect and deserve the sack.

But don't they get graded every match and the two coaches put in a report?

[Capt. Pants 4,300]

2 hours ago, Peregrine Shorts said:

The way we’re going it’s only a matter of time before a game is replayed because of a VAR error

You could see it happening in a Championship Play Off Final where the game is worth £150m+, or a relegation decider. VAR has made extraordinary errors at least twice this season already and that's on top of the usual controversy on a mact by match basis.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Peregrine Shorts said:

The way we’re going it’s only a matter of time before a game is replayed because of a VAR error

Why? Games weren't replayed because of referee error. Why is VAR different? Its already doing more than the original brief.

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 528]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why should he be sacked? 

Because it is his job to know and understand the "Offside Rule", and both here and in our game at Southampton he has shown that he believes that if you are on-side you are therefore offside.

[Conrad 179]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

But don't they get graded every match and the two coaches put in a report?

Isn't that just the on field officials? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Isn't that just the on field officials? 

I assumed the VAR officials get graded. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Watching Fulham v Chelsea. Crowd cries handball, none of the players do, VAR takes a look. Why? Howlers, we were told, was all it was for.