Mumba

[S_81 829]

10 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Yep! the club has deliberately decided to sabotage its chances because it sold a player it was unlikely to start, and who it clearly didn't think was worth more than £1m. Neither did any Championship team other than Plymouth, but don't let that get in the way of yet another bout of ridiculous fan hysteria. West Ham have also decided to sabotage their club by selling Rice, Liverpool by selling Henderson etc, etc, etc.

If you’re going to try and mock someone’s opinion you likely shouldn’t be using comparisons like West Ham making about 100m off Rice, vs is making not a lot more than 500k off Mumba. 
 

The poster you are replying to raises a valid point - which other clubs out there would leave the likes of Webber in charge of recruitment, potentially joining a league rival, for such a long notice period, when also clearly a disgruntled individual. 
 

In other clubs he would be either paid off early or on gardening leave. In other industries almost certainly. 

[horsefly 4,310]

6 hours ago, The Bunny said:

Yep, judge him on a friendly against Kings Lynn instead.

I mentioned the Kings Lynn game. But try not to be so bloody ridiculous and pretend that is the sole reason for suggesting he has been sold. It was indeed just a friendly, but it was hardly inspiring to see a full back bullied off the ball so easily by non-league players (likewise in the other friendlies). How many times have we heard fans complain that our full backs need to be first and foremost good at defending. The club will have considered all aspects of his performance and decided that £1m is the maximum level they see his potential reaching. Time will tell whether they got that right, but to date they haven't let many youngsters go on the cheap who turned out to be future superstars.

[horsefly 4,310]

34 minutes ago, S_81 said:

If you’re going to try and mock someone’s opinion you likely shouldn’t be using comparisons like West Ham making about 100m off Rice, vs is making not a lot more than 500k off Mumba. 
 

The poster you are replying to raises a valid point - which other clubs out there would leave the likes of Webber in charge of recruitment, potentially joining a league rival, for such a long notice period, when also clearly a disgruntled individual. 
 

In other clubs he would be either paid off early or on gardening leave. In other industries almost certainly. 

Hahahahaha! You talking about "mocking" other's opinions. Hilarious! The point I was making (which should have been pretty obvious, but clearly not to you) is that clubs sell players all the time, even very brilliant ones, but it is seldom because they are attempting to sabotage the club. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by horsefly

[chicken 2,640]

13 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think ironically that's due to Farke, wanting technical players all the time - we recruited fantastically under Lambert but very few of them would be players Farke would be happy with.

And I'd add to that, the majority were from the league we were in or the one below at the time of signing them.

Esp in the Champ/Prem when seeking those 'inbetweenies'.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,836]

2 hours ago, chicken said:

And I'd add to that, the majority were from the league we were in or the one below at the time of signing them.

Esp in the Champ/Prem when seeking those 'inbetweenies'.

If I'm not mistaken, we signed ten players in the 2011/12 Premier League season under Lambert and every single one of them played either Championship or League One football the season before. 

[chicken 2,640]

4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

If I'm not mistaken, we signed ten players in the 2011/12 Premier League season under Lambert and every single one of them played either Championship or League One football the season before. 

You are mistaken. We signed one from Everton. The season before we signed Surman too.

The only player we signed from League One was R. Bennett in January, then aged 21.

[A Load of Squit 5,205]

2 hours ago, S_81 said:

If you’re going to try and mock someone’s opinion you likely shouldn’t be using comparisons like West Ham making about 100m off Rice, vs is making not a lot more than 500k off Mumba. 
 

The poster you are replying to raises a valid point - which other clubs out there would leave the likes of Webber in charge of recruitment, potentially joining a league rival, for such a long notice period, when also clearly a disgruntled individual. 
 

In other clubs he would be either paid off early or on gardening leave. In other industries almost certainly. 

Webber may be working his notice but he's still doing a solid job for NCFC.

Looks like he played hard ball with Plymouth over the Mumba deal.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/football/bali-mumba-transfer-not-easy-8622250

The manager told Argyle TV: "It wasn't an easy deal to try and negotiate but we did it".

 

[The Bunny 314]

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

Yep! the club has deliberately decided to sabotage its chances because it sold a player it was unlikely to start, and who it clearly didn't think was worth more than £1m. Neither did any Championship team other than Plymouth, but don't let that get in the way of yet another bout of ridiculous fan hysteria. West Ham have also decided to sabotage their club by selling Rice, Liverpool by selling Henderson etc, etc, etc.

Note that I didn't say it was sabotage, I just said it almost looked like it.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, and all that... 

[The Bunny 314]

4 hours ago, S_81 said:

The poster you are replying to raises a valid point - which other clubs out there would leave the likes of Webber in charge of recruitment, potentially joining a league rival, for such a long notice period, when also clearly a disgruntled individual. 

In other clubs he would be either paid off early or on gardening leave. In other industries almost certainly. 

That wasn't really my point. To be clear, I don't think Stuart Webber is deliberately trying to sabotage the club. He's just acting so incompetently that it might create that impression. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,836]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

You are mistaken. We signed one from Everton. The season before we signed Surman too.

The only player we signed from League One was R. Bennett in January, then aged 21.

James Vaughan was signed from Everton but he spent the entirety of the previous season on loan at Palace in the Championship, making 30 appearances. De Laet, Ayala and Naughton were all signed from Premier League clubs as well, but like Vaughan, were playing Championship football the season before.

We also signed Elliott Bennett and Anthony Pilkington from Brighton and Huddersfield respectively, both in League One at the time.

EDIT: This is the full list, and yes, all of them were playing Championship or League One football the season before. It seems bizarre now that a club would go into a Premier League season with a transfer window like that, and we managed to finish 12th.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[horsefly 4,310]

11 hours ago, The Bunny said:

1. Whoever succeeds Wagner and Webber will need to completely rebuild the squad following the club's ruinous recruitment/retention strategy (ie letting all our talented players leave for free or next to nothing). This rebuild will not happen quickly. 

The strategy from the club is so bad at this point it almost looks like sabotage. 

 

41 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, and all that... 

"letting all our talented players leave for free or next to nothing"

Feel free to provide the list of all those talented players who left for free or next to nothing. I'm too stupid to remember their names.

[Big Vince 318]

On 22/07/2023 at 20:00, hogesar said:

Yet another occasion where our fans thought they knew better and harassed him on twitter telling him to resign...

You think you'd learn..

No way I wanted him gone. He just realised he couldn't take the club any further given the money restrictions. Just the same with Webber now. As always, the fundamental problem is ownership and nothing will change with Attanasio, especially as he's been both handpicked and groomed by Delia.

[Midlands Yellow 4,040]

43 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

No way I wanted him gone. He just realised he couldn't take the club any further given the money restrictions. Just the same with Webber now. As always, the fundamental problem is ownership and nothing will change with Attanasio, especially as he's been both handpicked and groomed by Delia.

I bet he can boil the perfect egg now. 

[S_81 829]

On 23/07/2023 at 09:52, A Load of Squit said:

Webber may be working his notice but he's still doing a solid job for NCFC.

Looks like he played hard ball with Plymouth over the Mumba deal.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/football/bali-mumba-transfer-not-easy-8622250

The manager told Argyle TV: "It wasn't an easy deal to try and negotiate but we did it".

 

Oh what a relief to hear, that makes the needless loss of a talent for pittance in modern game terms all the better 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

11 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Oh what a relief to hear, that makes the needless loss of a talent for pittance in modern game terms all the better 

Is that mockery?

[Branston Pickle 3,678]

19 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Oh what a relief to hear, that makes the needless loss of a talent for pittance in modern game terms all the better 

Utter rubbish.  £1m+ with add-ins  is the going rate.

He’s no longer the teenager you seem to think - he is 22 in October, and the simple fact is he’d not play hardly any games for us this season, as he’s not going to be high on the pecking order - we need defenders who can defend first and foremost.  So next year we’d have a guy coming up on 23 and in the last year of his contract, with very few games under his belt.  You may not agree with the move but it makes sense for both us and more importantly him.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Serinus Canaria Domestica 45]

SW has always been astute on sales. Remember when Glenn Middleton went on a free to Rangers? Similar angst about that one…we had a hefty sell on in that deal…..to protect our interests.

 

Now plying his trade for Dundee Utd in Scottish Championship, approx L1 level.

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

It would be interesting to know how many of those staunchly defending the sale would've happily accepted £1 million for Mumba before any rumour of a potential sale had surfaced. I can't understand why anyone would be happier with selling rather than giving the lad a go this season. If he flops for 6 months and we sell in January, we'd still get a pretty similar fee - so where was the risk in keeping him around for a little longer?!

It's far from the end of the world - clearly - but this sale just doesn't feel consistent with our model in previous seasons.  The actual impact on the team probably isn't a big one, but there is an underlying acknowledgement behind it that we are struggling to generate income and don't have a good position with any of our main 'saleable' assets. A stark contrast to seasons before where we've sold players at the peak of their value as well as retaining other prospects to continue to improve at the club. I just don't see us selling a player such as Mumba, after the loan spell he just had, being sold like this a couple of seasons ago.

It's just a little bit demoralising isn't it? Sorry!

[Branston Pickle 3,678]

1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

It would be interesting to know how many of those staunchly defending the sale would've happily accepted £1 million for Mumba before any rumour of a potential sale had surfaced. I can't understand why anyone would be happier with selling rather than giving the lad a go this season. If he flops for 6 months and we sell in January, we'd still get a pretty similar fee - so where was the risk in keeping him around for a little longer?!

It's far from the end of the world - clearly - but this sale just doesn't feel consistent with our model in previous seasons.  The actual impact on the team probably isn't a big one, but there is an underlying acknowledgement behind it that we are struggling to generate income and don't have a good position with any of our main 'saleable' assets. A stark contrast to seasons before where we've sold players at the peak of their value as well as retaining other prospects to continue to improve at the club. I just don't see us selling a player such as Mumba, after the loan spell he just had, being sold like this a couple of seasons ago.

It's just a little bit demoralising isn't it? Sorry!

I don’t agree - imo the ‘underlying acknowledgment’ is merely that we had a young player who wouldn’t be playing, and he needs to be playing.  There’s little point standing in the way of a guy’s career on the offchance we might give him the odd game at some point.

 

[BigFish 1,988]

Wagner had no intention of playing Mumba this season.

Mumba knew this.

Plymouth offered the going rate, probably above the going rate, for a League 1 experienced player transferring between two Champs clubs.

All three parties are happy, probably a perfect transfer.

[hogesar 9,720]

24 minutes ago, Serinus Canaria Domestica said:

SW has always been astute on sales. Remember when Glenn Middleton went on a free to Rangers? Similar angst about that one…we had a hefty sell on in that deal…..to protect our interests.

 

Now plying his trade for Dundee Utd in Scottish Championship, approx L1 level.

 

Really good example, actually. I remember even though times were better there was some criticism for us doing that.

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

18 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

It would be interesting to know how many of those staunchly defending the sale would've happily accepted £1 million for Mumba before any rumour of a potential sale had surfaced. I can't understand why anyone would be happier with selling rather than giving the lad a go this season. If he flops for 6 months and we sell in January, we'd still get a pretty similar fee - so where was the risk in keeping him around for a little longer?!

It's far from the end of the world - clearly - but this sale just doesn't feel consistent with our model in previous seasons.  The actual impact on the team probably isn't a big one, but there is an underlying acknowledgement behind it that we are struggling to generate income and don't have a good position with any of our main 'saleable' assets. A stark contrast to seasons before where we've sold players at the peak of their value as well as retaining other prospects to continue to improve at the club. I just don't see us selling a player such as Mumba, after the loan spell he just had, being sold like this a couple of seasons ago.

It's just a little bit demoralising isn't it? Sorry!

Actually, I'd disagree completely with the point in bold. I'd say this is textbook, just at a lower level than the likes of Buendia and Maddison. Mumba played well for Plymouth and was loved by their fans, but was a player who none of us really was quite sure where his best position was. Moreover, he played at Plymouth in a position we do not use - and when he was a full-back at Peterborough in our division, he wasn't that effective.

I do increasingly think that he may have had the agent pushing him to make the move to where he'd be a nailed-on starter as opposed to a substitute here, but I would also say Webber's learned from the Cantwell lesson and tried to get out when the going's good, earning a decent sum and hedging his bet with a nice sell-on.

[S_81 829]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Utter rubbish.  £1m+ with add-ins  is the going rate.

He’s no longer the teenager you seem to think - he is 22 in October, and the simple fact is he’d not play hardly any games for us this season, as he’s not going to be high on the pecking order - we need defenders who can defend first and foremost.  So next year we’d have a guy coming up on 23 and in the last year of his contract, with very few games under his belt.  You may not agree with the move but it makes sense for both us and more importantly him.

It doesn’t make sense. He should have been retained and played. I’m sure he’ll show that this season. The only thing it makes sense for is him - given the fact we weren’t going to play him. That remains baffling to a number of fans. 

[S_81 829]

31 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

It would be interesting to know how many of those staunchly defending the sale would've happily accepted £1 million for Mumba before any rumour of a potential sale had surfaced. I can't understand why anyone would be happier with selling rather than giving the lad a go this season. If he flops for 6 months and we sell in January, we'd still get a pretty similar fee - so where was the risk in keeping him around for a little longer?!

It's far from the end of the world - clearly - but this sale just doesn't feel consistent with our model in previous seasons.  The actual impact on the team probably isn't a big one, but there is an underlying acknowledgement behind it that we are struggling to generate income and don't have a good position with any of our main 'saleable' assets. A stark contrast to seasons before where we've sold players at the peak of their value as well as retaining other prospects to continue to improve at the club. I just don't see us selling a player such as Mumba, after the loan spell he just had, being sold like this a couple of seasons ago.

It's just a little bit demoralising isn't it? Sorry!

There’s some posters on here who will blindly just cheer anything the hierarchy at the club does. It’s so consistent, as is their shouting down of any criticism, that the only conclusion that can be drawn is that they work for the club. Or are utterly naive happy clappers. Or both. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

18 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t agree - imo the ‘underlying acknowledgment’ is merely that we had a young player who wouldn’t be playing, and he needs to be playing.  There’s little point standing in the way of a guy’s career on the offchance we might give him the odd game at some point.

 

16 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Wagner had no intention of playing Mumba this season.

Mumba knew this.

Plymouth offered the going rate, probably above the going rate, for a League 1 experienced player transferring between two Champs clubs.

All three parties are happy, probably a perfect transfer.

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Really good example, actually. I remember even though times were better there was some criticism for us doing that.

11 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Actually, I'd disagree completely with the point in bold. I'd say this is textbook, just at a lower level than the likes of Buendia and Maddison. Mumba played well for Plymouth and was loved by their fans, but was a player who none of us really was quite sure where his best position was. Moreover, he played at Plymouth in a position we do not use - and when he was a full-back at Peterborough in our division, he wasn't that effective.

I do increasingly think that he may have had the agent pushing him to make the move to where he'd be a nailed-on starter as opposed to a substitute here, but I would also say Webber's learned from the Cantwell lesson and tried to get out when the going's good, earning a decent sum and hedging his bet with a nice sell-on.

To be honest guys, the prospect of Mumba being brought into the fold this season was an exciting one, he could've caused absolute carnage down a flank. Up until last week, he was clearly set for a role here. We would be lucky to get more than one player like Mumba through our academy every 3-4 years.

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

To be honest guys, the prospect of Mumba being brought into the fold this season was an exciting one, he could've caused absolute carnage down a flank. Up until last week, he was clearly set for a role here. We would be lucky to get more than one player like Mumba through our academy every 3-4 years.

I sorta agree, but Rowe and Springett appear to be getting set up for the same position. Sainz is in the building and we might be getting Fassnacht.

[Branston Pickle 3,678]

4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

To be honest guys, the prospect of Mumba being brought into the fold this season was an exciting one, he could've caused absolute carnage down a flank. Up until last week, he was clearly set for a role here. We would be lucky to get more than one player like Mumba through our academy every 3-4 years.

You might be right, but I just don’t see it - he was nowhere near in the pecking order.  I think he wanted a move and got it, sensible all round. 

[Branston Pickle 3,678]

8 minutes ago, S_81 said:

There’s some posters on here who will blindly just cheer anything the hierarchy at the club does. It’s so consistent, as is their shouting down of any criticism, that the only conclusion that can be drawn is that they work for the club. Or are utterly naive happy clappers. Or both. 

I can’t wait until School restarts.

There’s always more than one opinion, and no absolute right and wrong.  He wasn’t going to play much for us, I’d have probably suggested another loan but it’s a moot point.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[hogesar 9,720]

8 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

To be honest guys, the prospect of Mumba being brought into the fold this season was an exciting one, he could've caused absolute carnage down a flank. Up until last week, he was clearly set for a role here. We would be lucky to get more than one player like Mumba through our academy every 3-4 years.

I can't comment to be honest, I've hardly seen him play.

[S_81 829]

5 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I can’t wait until School restarts.

There’s always more than one opinion, and no absolute right and wrong.  He wasn’t going to play much for us, I’d have probably suggested another loan but it’s a moot point.

A moment ago you were saying it made sense for us and him. It only makes sense for him on the basis that he wasn’t going to be played. Which remains baffling and a poor call by Wagner - who appeared to have written him off before he even arrived back at Colney