Mumba

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,861]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Just maybe, DW decided we had better players to play on the wing. We have seven of them.

Our other options are Hernandez, Placheta, Tzolis, Rowe and Springett, if you don't include Sainz who is out for three months.

I'd say that the wings are our weakest position right now, so it isn't exactly a high bar. 

[hogesar 9,751]

10 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Otsemobor was in mid-20s though, and in what turned out to be the peak of his career. 

Mumba is 21 and was also named League One Young Player of the Year.

Considering that we're struggling for decent options on the wing, I find it strange that not only are we not keeping him, but also selling for a seemingly low fee.

Totally agree with your comment that it's a drop in the ocean, which makes it even more peculiar. His wages must've been significantly lower than Placheta and Tzolis, so it clearly wasn't motivated by money. 

 

Agreed.

I mean I'm using the Otsemobor a little loosely but he'd only just turned 24 so that wouldn't normally be a peak for any fullback. 

But if we want to use League One Young Player of the Year then last year was Paddy Lane, who was 21 and had very similar stats to Mumba. He is still in League One with Portsmouth.

I think fans getting as irate as some are on this forum, having not seen the kid play, is a little laughable.

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,861]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I mean I'm using the Otsemobor a little loosely but he'd only just turned 24 so that wouldn't normally be a peak for any fullback. 

But if we want to use League One Young Player of the Year then last year was Paddy Lane, who was 21 and had very similar stats to Mumba. He is still in League One with Portsmouth.

I think fans getting as irate as some are on this forum, having not seen the kid play, is a little laughable.

 

For a full back who relied so heavily on his pace, it probably wasn't far off, but we're going off on a tangent. It's tough to make a comparison here for many reasons, anyway.

Also, Lane's numbers for both goals and assists were lower than Mumba's and he was played further forward, but I guess that's offset by the fact he was playing in a worse team. Again, tough to make a comparison as a result.

Sticking just to Mumba, I agree that quite a lot of people on this forum are going over the top, but I just find it strange that we've sold a 21-year-old for such a modest fee (given some of the others that we've received during Webber's tenure) when he's coming off the back of such a good season in the league below and we're short on quality options in that player's best position.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Indeed! And over the years we have signed a whole host of other promising youngsters who we later released or sold on for very little because we didn't believe they would develop to a sufficient level. I can't remember many cases where such youngsters have gone on to prove the club wrong in their judgement. I guess the club decided that £1m matched the level they considered Mumba to be likely to reach. Frankly that isn't the level to which a promotion aspiring club should be aiming, and it is perhaps instructive that no such club has come in with an offer to beat Plymouth.

True, lots of young players have flopped and been sold off when it was clear they weren’t up to standard, but I can’t think of many that were sold when they were clearly on the cusp of breaching into the first team after a very successful loan in the previous season! It doesn’t feel like the best time to sell him to me, perhaps after this season or in 6 months time if it became clear it wasn’t working. At which point we’d no doubt still be able to land a pretty a similar fee…

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Our other options are Hernandez, Placheta, Tzolis, Rowe and Springett, if you don't include Sainz who is out for three months.

I'd say that the wings are our weakest position right now, so it isn't exactly a high bar. 

I am not qualifying our current wingers talent. I am just saying we have options. And another option was to sell Mumba because he was neither a full back or winger.

And you forget Rashica is our player. Hopefully both clubs will compromise and we will sell him.

[chicken 2,645]

Seems to be fairly predictable response in general.

General feeling for the last couple of seasons has been 'What is Mumba's best position?'.

Yes, he has a decent turn of pace, a good engine and some trickery. He was signed as a full back that had also played defensive midfield.

So he was ok going forward and another full back we had who was questionable in actual defending.

In many ways it makes perfect sense he suited playing as a wing back so well based on what we knew. You don't have to be great at either, but good at both.

What we already know is that he isn't 'creative' in the way Dowell, Cantwell, Buendia or even Stiepermann were/are. That's what we are lacking.

There is still much more movement in terms of ins and outs yet to come, I'm not going to really care until we get closer to knowing what this squad looks like.

Mumba looked promising. But that was in the same team Vs Bournemouth in the cup that Tzolis and Sargent stole the show. Not enough to get worked up and irate about just yet IMHO. At least Stacey brings in height and strength.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,861]

10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I am not qualifying our current wingers talent. I am just saying we have options. And another option was to sell Mumba because he was neither a full back or winger.

And you forget Rashica is our player. Hopefully both clubs will compromise and we will sell him.

To be honest, I did forget Rashica. At no point this summer have I considered him in any squad planning as the likelihood of him being here at the end of the window is very slim. 

I get why we've sold Mumba. Like you say, few seem to know what his best position is, and clearly Wagner thinks we have better options at both full back and on the wing. 

However, I wasn't expecting this decision and it isn't the one I'd have made, and I think that goes for the majority of Norwich fans.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I mean I'm using the Otsemobor a little loosely but he'd only just turned 24 so that wouldn't normally be a peak for any fullback. 

But if we want to use League One Young Player of the Year then last year was Paddy Lane, who was 21 and had very similar stats to Mumba. He is still in League One with Portsmouth.

I think fans getting as irate as some are on this forum, having not seen the kid play, is a little laughable.

 

Think our recruiting under Webber from the lower leagues has been woeful. Think of the wonderful team Lambert built with a vast majority from the lower leagues. The talent is there and waiting for the opportunity. We haven’t given anyone from the lower leagues an opportunity in recent years. 

[hogesar 9,751]

17 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Think our recruiting under Webber from the lower leagues has been woeful. Think of the wonderful team Lambert built with a vast majority from the lower leagues. The talent is there and waiting for the opportunity. We haven’t given anyone from the lower leagues an opportunity in recent years. 

I think ironically that's due to Farke, wanting technical players all the time - we recruited fantastically under Lambert but very few of them would be players Farke would be happy with.

[Mike w 46]

On 21/07/2023 at 14:41, S_81 said:

1m for Mumba. Seriously, what’s the point. What will we do with that money to get better!? 

crazy money for someonbe who could benefit NCFC, absolute crap

[Mike w 46]

3 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

For a full back who relied so heavily on his pace, it probably wasn't far off, but we're going off on a tangent. It's tough to make a comparison here for many reasons, anyway.

Also, Lane's numbers for both goals and assists were lower than Mumba's and he was played further forward, but I guess that's offset by the fact he was playing in a worse team. Again, tough to make a comparison as a result.

Sticking just to Mumba, I agree that quite a lot of people on this forum are going over the top, but I just find it strange that we've sold a 21-year-old for such a modest fee (given some of the others that we've received during Webber's tenure) when he's coming off the back of such a good season in the league below and we're short on quality options in that player's best position.

absolutely , crazy..........................

[canarybubbles 1,946]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

I mean I'm using the Otsemobor a little loosely but he'd only just turned 24 so that wouldn't normally be a peak for any fullback. 

But if we want to use League One Young Player of the Year then last year was Paddy Lane, who was 21 and had very similar stats to Mumba. He is still in League One with Portsmouth.

I think fans getting as irate as some are on this forum, having not seen the kid play, is a little laughable.

 

Fans are getting irate because many of them had dreams about Mumba, which the club have again managed to p*ss on because they couldn't give a damn about the fans. Go and support someone else. Says everything, doesn't it?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,802]

Get's played forward on his first game back at Plymouth and scores. It's what he does.

 

This club really annoys me sometimes. Can't wait for him to score against us beacause I think we all know it's going to happen. Wonder if he will pull a Ramsey and shush our fans?

Edited July 22, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Big Vince 319]

On 21/07/2023 at 12:54, Old Shuck said:

Was always seen as a cheap acquisition we could (except Plymouth did) develop and sell on for a profit.

That's part of our modus operandi now.

May well be the same with Fisher and Forsyth...and more.

Colney is a factory developing players for other clubs-like lots of other academies.

Man City have just sold a goalkeeper who was never going to play for them for nearly £20,000,000. Job done as far as their academy is concerned.

Job done for ours if we sell Mumba for nearly £1,000,000, it won't be too far off that I suspect. Profit made, move onto the next one-Hills this time next year probably.

Difference is, Man C win major trebles. Norwich have no major trophy since 1985.

[Big Vince 319]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I think ironically that's due to Farke, wanting technical players all the time - we recruited fantastically under Lambert but very few of them would be players Farke would be happy with.

McNasty better than Webber.

[canarybubbles 1,946]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I think ironically that's due to Farke, wanting technical players all the time - we recruited fantastically under Lambert but very few of them would be players Farke would be happy with.

Under Lambert we went for players with a bit of bite. Under Farke we went for players with great technical ability. Under Wagner we go for players who can run a lot. Is this progress?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,802]

10 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Difference is, Man C win major trebles. Norwich have no major trophy since 1985.

This post sounds an awful lot like what a binner would say. I mean, I have always had suspitions but.. Think you just outed yourself

[hogesar 9,751]

28 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Under Lambert we went for players with a bit of bite. Under Farke we went for players with great technical ability. Under Wagner we go for players who can run a lot. Is this progress?

You don't think Stacey, Barnes and Duffy have a bit of bite? I think Lambert would have those players if given the choice.

[hogesar 9,751]

35 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

McNasty better than Webber.

Yet another occasion where our fans thought they knew better and harassed him on twitter telling him to resign...

You think you'd learn..

[Worthy Nigelton 1,066]

6 hours ago, hogesar said:

So was Jon Otsemobor (in league one team of the year) when we signed him. League One ability doesn't always, in fact often doesn't, translate a league higher.

This is nothing to do with being skint, the money we've got for him is a drop in the ocean.

He's 21 years old though. He also has international pedigree at various levels and he was in a team that won the league. I don't think any of those things apply to Otsemobor.

Plenty of players do step up and some step up even higher. Pilkington, Bennett, Ashton etc etc.

This seems mad to me and every other fan I've spoken to agrees.

[hogesar 9,751]

8 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He's 21 years old though. He also has international pedigree at various levels and he was in a team that won the league. I don't think any of those things apply to Otsemobor.

Plenty of players do step up and some step up even higher. Pilkington, Bennett, Ashton etc etc.

This seems mad to me and every other fan I've spoken to agrees.

Otsemobor was an England U21 International, but I don't know much more than that.

Yes, nearly every fan I come across seems to think it's mad, but so far none of them have seen Mumba play so I'm not sure they have any more insight than I do (who's also not watched him play). I saw his couple of cameos under Farke that looked promising with no fans in the ground but would be daft to judge him based on that, so I won't.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think ironically that's due to Farke, wanting technical players all the time - we recruited fantastically under Lambert but very few of them would be players Farke would be happy with.

If that had not stayed even with Smith and now Wagner in charge I’d be more inclined to say you’re right but it continues with other managers so the only consistent is Webber. 

[The Bunny 314]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I saw his couple of cameos under Farke that looked promising with no fans in the ground but would be daft to judge him based on that, so I won't.

Yep, judge him on a friendly against Kings Lynn instead. And lets also ignore the complete season of football in which he picked up various POTS awards too. Apparently nobody saw them, so they didn't happen...

[The Bunny 314]

Calling this now:

1. Mumba will prove a successful player for Plymouth in the championship, and will almost certainly be considered a steal for them
2. Wagner will be gone by January and we'll be mid-table at best at that point
3. Whoever succeeds Wagner and Webber will need to completely rebuild the squad following the club's ruinous recruitment/retention strategy (ie letting all our talented players leave for free or next to nothing). This rebuild will not happen quickly. 

The strategy from the club is so bad at this point it almost looks like sabotage. 

[hogesar 9,751]

22 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Yep, judge him on a friendly against Kings Lynn instead. And lets also ignore the complete season of football in which he picked up various POTS awards too. Apparently nobody saw them, so they didn't happen...

I've said elsewhere it would be equally stupid to judge him based on a pre-season game so no idea why you're coming at me with that. Although admittedly judging him on something you've actually seen rather than something you've not is probably slightly more valid if anything.

He didn't win various POTS awards. He won the Young Player of The Season award for League One. That's good for him, but like I said earlier, last year it was Paddy Lane and he's 22 now, still playing in League One. 

 

[The Bunny 314]

>He didn't win various POTS awards. He won the Young Player of The Season award for League One

Fair point, I should have said various young POTS awards (he also won Plymouth's). 

I actually did watch highlights of him a few times for Plymouth for as well as seeing him for us on a few occasions under Farke. For what it's worth anyway (not much; it's not like he's Schrodinger's wingback...). He looked an exciting prospect.

The idea of watching him finally playing for us regularly gave a lot of us cause for optimism in a pre-season which is otherwise looking pretty dire.

I know the knee jerk reaction of many on here is simply to back the club regardless of the decision, but the evidence is not in favor of the club in this case. And as mentioned above, I strongly suspect we're going to regret it. 

[hogesar 9,751]

39 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

>He didn't win various POTS awards. He won the Young Player of The Season award for League One

Fair point, I should have said various young POTS awards (he also won Plymouth's). 

I actually did watch highlights of him a few times for Plymouth for as well as seeing him for us on a few occasions under Farke. For what it's worth anyway (not much; it's not like he's Schrodinger's wingback...). He looked an exciting prospect.

The idea of watching him finally playing for us regularly gave a lot of us cause for optimism in a pre-season which is otherwise looking pretty dire.

I know the knee jerk reaction of many on here is simply to back the club regardless of the decision, but the evidence is not in favor of the club in this case. And as mentioned above, I strongly suspect we're going to regret it. 

Yeah on his apps under Farke I thought he looked exciting. But then I thought Goran Maric looked decent and Alan Gow looked like he could do a job soo...

I don't know what add-ons or sell-ons we have but if he becomes a top winger in this division then yes, it will look a very premature decision.

[Duncan Edwards 2,268]

Maybe I’ll be wrong about this one but…I’m not particularly @rsed about it. I don’t really see how he fits in, we’ve cleared a profit and he gets first team football.

Of course, if he ends up at Leyton Orient in 8 years time and they get promoted to the Premier League, well, it will be Carlton Morris all over again.

Mind, Delia will be 90 by then, still clinging on and we’ll be having derbies with Wroxham. Probably.

 

[Danke bitte 967]

2 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Maybe I’ll be wrong about this one but…I’m not particularly @rsed about it. I don’t really see how he fits in, we’ve cleared a profit and he gets first team football.

Of course, if he ends up at Leyton Orient in 8 years time and they get promoted to the Premier League, well, it will be Carlton Morris all over again.

Mind, Delia will be 90 by then, still clinging on and we’ll be having derbies with Wroxham. Probably.

 

This post succinctly sums up the situation. Storm in a teacup. 

[horsefly 4,317]

6 hours ago, The Bunny said:

Calling this now:

1. Mumba will prove a successful player for Plymouth in the championship, and will almost certainly be considered a steal for them
2. Wagner will be gone by January and we'll be mid-table at best at that point
3. Whoever succeeds Wagner and Webber will need to completely rebuild the squad following the club's ruinous recruitment/retention strategy (ie letting all our talented players leave for free or next to nothing). This rebuild will not happen quickly. 

The strategy from the club is so bad at this point it almost looks like sabotage. 

Yep! the club has deliberately decided to sabotage its chances because it sold a player it was unlikely to start, and who it clearly didn't think was worth more than £1m. Neither did any Championship team other than Plymouth, but don't let that get in the way of yet another bout of ridiculous fan hysteria. West Ham have also decided to sabotage their club by selling Rice, Liverpool by selling Henderson etc, etc, etc.