Webber's appeal to the fans

[repman 635]

7 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Absolutely take Nutty's point that it's going to depend on the sort of start the team makes. Start well, and the atmosphere will improve. A poor start on the back of three consecutive poor seasons at CR with fans in the ground, and everyone's patience will be pretty thin.

The one thing I'd add, though, is that there is a sense of a new era beginning, lots of player turnover and a move away from Farkeball. It's really something that should have happened last summer. But I think it was a mistake for the noise coming out of the club last summer to be all about an immediate bounce-back to the PL. I think the fans are more likely to be patient if it's clear that there is an attempt to build something new. A huge amount of the frustration with Smith's team was the sense (whether it was fair or not) that this should be a top-two team that was just floundering. If there's an assumption next season that we're building something, and that it might take a while, I think the fans might be a bit more tolerant of a slow start.

Everything Webber has said so far this summer suggests that we're ramping up for another go at promotion has it not? 

I think it's true to say we're entering a new phase or whatever but I wouldn't characterise it as a long term rebuild (or even a medium term one). The Barnes signing, plus all the talk of adding 'experience' says to me that we're going for it straight up. I'm not sure Webber and Wagner have much choice other than to give it a good go but it's certainly important to note how when he joined in January the goal was promotion and it remained that way up until the last month of the season when the messaging suddenly shifted to next season. Any attempt by the two of them to buy themselves more time next season if things aren't going well shouldn't be given the light of day in my opinion, especially if the transfer business this summer consists of selling young players and replacing them with older, more win-now players.

[Robert N. LiM 4,419]

2 minutes ago, repman said:

especially if the transfer business this summer consists of selling young players and replacing them with older, more win-now players

Yeah, that's a fair response. Personally I'm in favour of adding some Championship-ready players, but I hope we are aiming for a mix of youth and experience. 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

On the basis that we don’t seem to have any reasonable prospect of the owners or either of the Webbers s**ding off any time soon we don’t really have much choice so we. Just continuing the negative atmosphere into next season would seem self defeating. 

[Indy 3,307]

4 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yeah, that's a fair response. Personally I'm in favour of adding some Championship-ready players, but I hope we are aiming for a mix of youth and experience. 

I wonder if they are using any analytical systems bought in from the brewers baseball franchise. A very successful franchise given the outlay to win ratio.

[Robert N. LiM 4,419]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

I wonder if they are using any analytical systems bought in from the brewers baseball franchise. A very successful franchise given the outlay to win ratio.

My instinct would be that surely this would take a little longer to adapt to the less stats-rich environment of football. Not sure Attanasio has been in the building long enough. But that's based on nothing but assumption.

[Indy 3,307]

3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

My instinct would be that surely this would take a little longer to adapt to the less stats-rich environment of football. Not sure Attanasio has been in the building long enough. But that's based on nothing but assumption.

Maybe but the so called fabled moneyball bought in by the A's was quickly adopted by a lot of teams some like the Brewers very successful at what they do given the size of the payroll.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The first thing we need to do is get a squad capable of winning the Championship assembled. Others will do the same but will never be in with a chance. We will. We still have a parchute payment left. Of course the team that come down will hav to do the same. Its not about whether the players are good enough for the EPL. Its about being good enough for this league.

And of course we will virtually all be champing at the bit to get the season going again and full of optimism. Why not?

[BroadstairsR 2,183]

Not so sure about those comments regarding the docility of the support at Carrow Road. If so it's not a traditional thing.

The City crowd have, in the past, been as passionate and noisy as any other. "On the ball City" used to resonate beyond the whole county at one time. 

Carrow Road in the olden days used to be a cauldron. An elderly Spurs fan I know often speaks of the way he saw his side visibly intimidated (59?) by that incessant roar of that song, stating that they didn't stand a chance.  Apparently it rang out on the terraces of While Hart Lane in the replay with the same effect.

 Now,  because there does seem to be a highish proportion of the less arousable elderly season ticket holders it might need to take more for it to show. Dissent is also muted by the absence of sufficient belligerent youth. 

We sell out regularly because the ground is not big enough. Younger supporters find it harder to get a foot in the door and casuals are restricted.

Having to repeatedly put a cap on season ticket sales and the need for a waiting list cries out for more capacity.

In sum, City supporters on the whole would be no different from any other, if they could all, get in.

4. The flooding of our television screens with live football has, instead of reducing match day attendances, had the opposite effect. The match-day experience seems to be valued more than ever, especially by casuals and exiles who seem to treasure such a one-off  experience and are willing to pay for it.

Am I right?

Recently, a young northern lad, a podcaster of the Championship evaluated all the Championship grounds and I stumbled upon it. He put Carrow Road second in his list, but added that it seemed the only ground in the league whose capacity did not live up to demand. 

Was he right?

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Indy 3,307]

7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The first thing we need to do is get a squad capable of winning the Championship assembled. Others will do the same but will never be in with a chance. We will. We still have a parchute payment left. Of course the team that come down will hav to do the same. Its not about whether the players are good enough for the EPL. Its about being good enough for this league.

And of course we will virtually all be champing at the bit to get the season going again and full of optimism. Why not?

And there in is the problem, Boro, Sunderland are set with very decent squads for this season coming, Southampton, Leeds will have very strong squads even after the summer, Russell Martin head coach will probably do a great job there, if Leicester come down or Everton they will be favourites and lastly you have Watford too. It’s a far tougher championship next year when we’ve had the stuffing knocked out the squad, Webber at odds with the majority of the fans, family silver being sold and we’re left with a few aging players with little leadership qualities and a group of youngsters with bags of potential yet to be met.

I don’t see next season as much more than stabilising and building on the youth system. But that’s just my view, just can’t see us getting much above top 10 at best.

[repman 635]

17 minutes ago, Indy said:

I wonder if they are using any analytical systems bought in from the brewers baseball franchise. A very successful franchise given the outlay to win ratio.

We were certainly one of the more data forward sides in the country back in 18/19 and I think even things like the soccerbot showed a willingness to innovate. 

In terms of football and data we're probably in a similar point as to where baseball was around 20 years ago, where Moneyball had just been released and it was being adopted by teams across the league. Since then the data arms race in baseball has continued and still does to this day, there's no reason that this won't happen in football either. 

I think with the club's financial position it makes sense that we should look for gains in all places, Brentford and Brighton are 2 clubs who have and although Webber is right their owners are wealthier than ours that's not an excuse to not try things. The money it would cost to employ a data analyst for a year is what we routinely pay players weekly.

[Felixfan 53]

Football is cyclical and we are on a downward trajectory. At some stage we will bottom out refresh and go on an upward curve.

I don’t think we are near the bottom yet and when that is recognised we will rebuild. - Remember Colchester 7 -1

[Monty13 2,235]

1 hour ago, repman said:

Everything Webber has said so far this summer suggests that we're ramping up for another go at promotion has it not? 

I mean other than actually saying that it has, maybe he’s learning.

[nutty nigel 7,552]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I think it's more than that. Alex Neil found that the Norwich crowd went all subdued too easily when things didn't go how it wanted. John Bond used to urge the crowd to sing more than they did. When I first started going to matches, rounds of applause were the main crowd response to good play.  Comedians performing at the Theatre Royal used to think Norwich audiences didn't like them because of a seeming lack of reaction.  That is ancient history, but is there still an element of that at CR?  If so, then we need the manager to encourage fans to get more involved. Farke was brilliant at that. 

I take the point that winning will help, but it feels as if the fans want - or maybe need - more than that.

It's great when we're winning but that's much the same at all clubs. Like I said 2018/19 was a season caption of how it works. That's recent enough for everyone to remember without rewriting history and pretending otherwise.

Broady's point about 1959 is irrelevant. That will never be repeated in the modern game. 38,000, most of them standing, and the cup run that gripped not just the city and county but the whole country. We could win the PL, FA Cup and Champions league and it wouldn't match it for sheer passion. Football is now sport for TV with supporters all seated in the ground. The second half of 18/19 was as good as it gets. And it really was awesome for the game in these times.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Well , that and the players like Trippier that they were able to get in to keep them up because they are owned by the Saudi government who , according to the Press  

“flexed that financial muscle in the January 2022 transfer window, spending more than any other team in Europe”  

This year Arsenal, West Ham, Man Utd & Chelsea all spent more.

If it was all money Chelsea would have won the league in January having spent £540m.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Kenny Foggo

[BroadstairsR 2,183]

9 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's great when we're winning but that's much the same at all clubs. Like I said 2018/19 was a season caption of how it works. That's recent enough for everyone to remember without rewriting history and pretending otherwise.

Broady's point about 1959 is irrelevant. That will never be repeated in the modern game. 38,000, most of them standing, and the cup run that gripped not just the city and county but the whole country. We could win the PL, FA Cup and Champions league and it wouldn't match it for sheer passion. Football is now sport for TV with supporters all seated in the ground. The second half of 18/19 was as good as it gets. And it really was awesome for the game in these times.

Not really as it refutes the implication that Norfolk supporters being inherently docile are the reason for the lack of atmosphere pertaining at Carrow Road thes days.

We have continued to be a noisy lot long after '59 and, as you say, were so in 2018/19 when half the City cheered the City Hall balcony. Of course winning encourages support and even Wrexham have risen from the dead because of winning the Conference (?) whilst the binners have doubled their gates because of success in L. 1.

I still maintain that there would be a more vociferous response, either way, if everybody could be accommodated at Carrow Road who wanted to be.

Somebody somewhere along the line missed a trick there?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The atmosphere of the terrace will never be repeated at Carrow Road in the way it was.

[nutty nigel 7,552]

13 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Not really as it refutes the implication that Norfolk supporters being inherently docile are the reason for the lack of atmosphere pertaining at Carrow Road thes days.

We have continued to be a noisy lot long after '59 and, as you say, were so in 2018/19 when half the City cheered the City Hall balcony. Of course winning encourages support and even Wrexham have risen from the dead because of winning the Conference (?) whilst the binners have doubled their gates because of success in L. 1.

I still maintain that there would be a more vociferous response, either way, if everybody could be accommodated at Carrow Road who wanted to be.

Somebody somewhere along the line missed a trick there?

I'd agree that if we could get 38,000 in the stadium we'd have had 35,000 gates for many of the games in the second half of 18/19. We'd also get 35,000+ for the PL games against the top clubs even if we were bottom of the league. 

It could be that if we get the new owner we could afford the debt to get a new stand. Or maybe he'd decide a new stadium...

 

 

[ricardo 7,395]

At some stage a corner is turned but nobody knows how far away that corner is.

[ricardo 7,395]

8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I'd agree that if we could get 38,000 in the stadium we'd have had 35,000 gates for many of the games in the second half of 18/19. We'd also get 35,000+ for the PL games against the top clubs even if we were bottom of the league. 

It could be that if we get the new owner we could afford the debt to get a new stand. Or maybe he'd decide a new stadium...

 

 

A bigger capacity just means more people will decide to pick and choose when to attend. Personally I don't see us filling a 35k stadium on any regular basis. 30-32k seems more than enough but there appears to be little prospect of enlargememnt in the short to medium timescale.

As to a new stadium, i thought we had sent Tom Cavendish off to investigate the Lettuce bacon and tomato triangle at Thorpe.

[hogesar 9,704]

18 minutes ago, ricardo said:

A bigger capacity just means more people will decide to pick and choose when to attend. Personally I don't see us filling a 35k stadium on any regular basis. 30-32k seems more than enough but there appears to be little prospect of enlargememnt in the short to medium timescale.

As to a new stadium, i thought we had sent Tom Cavendish off to investigate the Lettuce bacon and tomato triangle at Thorpe.

Don't bring back those memories! 😂

[nutty nigel 7,552]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

A bigger capacity just means more people will decide to pick and choose when to attend. Personally I don't see us filling a 35k stadium on any regular basis. 30-32k seems more than enough but there appears to be little prospect of enlargememnt in the short to medium timescale.

As to a new stadium, i thought we had sent Tom Cavendish off to investigate the Lettuce bacon and tomato triangle at Thorpe.

No we won't. Our average will probably go down on seasons like last season. But 18/19 we'd have got over 30,000 for a few games just like we did in 1972.

With regards to a new stadium - who knows what any knew owner would do.

[Hardhouse44 261]

Webber want us to give the players a chance and to be supportive!

Only thats not really what he’s asking. He’s really asking us to accept whatever the players dish up for however long they dish it up and be “supportive” by never questioning it or venting any dissatisfaction with it.

I’m sure we will all turn up again on the first home game of the season with the same hopes and dreams we do every season, and support and give the benefit to players as always happens at the start. What he’s asking is don’t moan if the same dross continues. So the really question is how long do we all do that for if it does continue?

 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,030]

12 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Lakey we both know the answer...

Only if we win enough games.

Same as it always was.

Baby steps Nutty, baby steps, it would be nice to see us score a goal at Carrow Rd  let alone win a match, last home goal 25th February so by the time the new season is upon us it will only have been 6 months or so..........

[nutty nigel 7,552]

23 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Baby steps Nutty, baby steps, it would be nice to see us score a goal at Carrow Rd  let alone win a match, last home goal 25th February so by the time the new season is upon us it will only have been 6 months or so..........

But on the plus side it will be 3 months since we conceded one..

Let's hope we're home first game and score in the first minute.

Edited May 23, 2023 by nutty nigel
🤞🍀💛⚽💚💪💪🏿

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,030]

12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

But on the plus side it will be 3 months since we conceded one..

Let's hope we're home first game and score in the first minute.

Cannot wait for the new season to start, lets hope so, OTBC..............

[nutty nigel 7,552]

1 minute ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Cannot wait for the new season to start, lets hope so, OTBC..............

After 3 months of goalless draws we'll be ready for it 🙃😎 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

Fact is though, by setting the goal of promotion, he’s setting up for failure.    
 

This current squad don’t have the playing philosophy, the experience or the quality to achieve promotion and needs time to develop.   That was the case last summer too, but we went for it anyway and regressed as a result.    
 

He congratulated the players for ‘raising expectations’ and spins it as a positive.   Those who accept that have been fooled.    Those expectations should be long gone after last season’s performances so why is he raising expectation again?     

Edited May 24, 2023 by ged in the onion bag

[Google Bot 3,293]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

He congratulated the players for ‘raising expectations’ and spins it as a positive.

It's kinda what you have to do in that role in regards to staff though isn't it.

There's a fine balance between raising moral and blowing smoke up your own **** though - I think we had a lot of smoke filled hinds last season and never looked hungry enough as a result.

Wagner seems the sort to seek a positive spin on everything too.  Hopefully this is when players like Barnes are the realists in the dressing room after a lack lustre first half.

It's so hard to know what goes on behind closed doors vs what is said in front of a camera though.

[Nora's Ghost 157]

I suggest Webber put's a dress and some make up on then the squeaky Norwich fanbase will love him.

 

Maybe he's just too masculine for some.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Nora's Ghost

[Davidlingfield 63]

18 hours ago, repman said:

Everything Webber has said so far this summer suggests that we're ramping up for another go at promotion has it not? 

I think it's true to say we're entering a new phase or whatever but I wouldn't characterise it as a long term rebuild (or even a medium term one). The Barnes signing, plus all the talk of adding 'experience' says to me that we're going for it straight up. I'm not sure Webber and Wagner have much choice other than to give it a good go but it's certainly important to note how when he joined in January the goal was promotion and it remained that way up until the last month of the season when the messaging suddenly shifted to next season. Any attempt by the two of them to buy themselves more time next season if things aren't going well shouldn't be given the light of day in my opinion, especially if the transfer business this summer consists of selling young players and replacing them with older, more win-now players.

There is no choice but to "add experience" through free transfers as there is no money available to do anything else.  It is the last roll of the dice before Championship mediocrity (or worse) beckons.