5 reasons Wagner should go

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

Well no announcement today so it feels as though the club are invested in Wagner as far as they can be bearing in mind he's only on a 12 mth rolling contract. Realistically it's not surprising and feels as though Webber and the BOD just wanted to get this season over and done with.

Huge summer ahead. I'm not expecting much creativity in the signings with a short term view just to stabilise the decline and somehow get in the top 6 again.

Crikey we need some experience and fight.

 

[repman 635]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

This is key. We don't have the financial resource to rebuild for another style of play. I note Zoe's Boardroom notes specifically mention the style of play, so that's surely going to be a future-proofing thought process for them.

The thing is I don't think the style of play has changed since we switched before 21/22. It's clear the focus now is meant to be pressing and making sure we're good defensively. Sargent for example was signed because of his running power. Wagner is much closer to Smith than he is to Farke and Webber said after sacking Smith that the style of play wasn't an issue at all.

There's another question over whether this style of play is even successful anymore.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Well no announcement today so it feels as though the club are invested in Wagner as far as they can be bearing in mind he's only on a 12 mth rolling contract. Realistically it's not surprising and feels as though Webber and the BOD just wanted to get this season over and done with.

Huge summer ahead. I'm not expecting much creativity in the signings with a short term view just to stabilise the decline and somehow get in the top 6 again.

Crikey we need some experience and fight.

 

As someone Twitter said- we are asked to have faith in a vision to sell the last remaining ola he rd we have to fund new players for a failing manager to play in a system which failed for him twice in recent years 

[hogesar 9,677]

2 minutes ago, repman said:

The thing is I don't think the style of play has changed since we switched before 21/22. It's clear the focus now is meant to be pressing and making sure we're good defensively. Sargent for example was signed because of his running power. Wagner is much closer to Smith than he is to Farke and Webber said after sacking Smith that the style of play wasn't an issue at all.

There's another question over whether this style of play is even successful anymore.

I agree there's a question at the top level, although with only one season of evidence even that's hard to determine. I see nothing to suggest it can't work in the second tier.

[repman 635]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I agree there's a question at the top level, although with only one season of evidence even that's hard to determine. I see nothing to suggest it can't work in the second tier.

Maybe the style works, but can the coach implement it effectively? 

I see nothing to suggest that Wagner has any capability to fix the problems his system has.

[king canary 7,609]

9 minutes ago, repman said:

Maybe the style works, but can the coach implement it effectively? 

I see nothing to suggest that Wagner has any capability to fix the problems his system has.

Yeah I don't see any reason why a high pressing, high energy, swift counter attacking style can't work, if anything it is more do-able than Farkeball. If we're settled on that fine but as you say being settled on that style doesn't mean we have to be settled on Wagner.

[lake district canary 4,533]

3 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Webber should of had a short list of managers at all times head coaches that play your way you have noticed kept a eye on to continue the work 

That is what we are told that the club keeps a eye out across the world for head coach talent 

we might not need them when Farke was doing well but if he left or as it happen sacked we would have someone to step in straight away 

now that list will change managers etc we get new jobs and come off the list but it should be a ever changing short list 

Zoe Webber Must think we came up the River Yare in a Mustard boat if she thinks we believe they looked around world football and Smith & Wagner was the best  Head coaches for the role

Yes, it was always said that we should be able to change head coaches without big changes - it was part of the model presented to us, but we have changed through some kind of turgid metamporphis into something that feels polar opposite to what Farke was doing.

So it feels we are back to square one, rebuilding, loads of new players needed to assimilate into Wagner's way. I try to be optimistic and it will be a fresh start next season, but I fear we will play 100mph football and will be successful up to a point, but will then run out of steam playing that way and as teams learn to deal with it.  With Farke, we were supremely fit and dominated posession so we didn't have to play at 100mph, so we always had plenty in the tank towards the ends of matches  (at this level at any rate). 

Playing Farkeball we probably could have got promoted again this season, Nunez and Sara relishing the amount of posession we would have had playing Farke's way. They are two players that to me are crying out for a system that works in their favour.

Edited May 9, 2023 by lake district canary

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, it was always said that we should be able to change head coaches without big changes - it was part of the model presented to us, but we have changed through some kind of turgid metamporphis into something that feels polar opposite to what Farke was doing.

So it feels we are back to square one, rebuilding, loads of new players needed to assimilate into Wagner's way. I try to be optimistic and it will be a fresh start next season, but I fear we will play 100mph football and will be successful up to a point, but will then run out of steam playing that way and as teams learn to deal with it.  With Farke, we were supremely fit and dominated posession so we didn't have to play at 100mph, so we always had plenty in the tank towards the ends of matches  (at this level at any rate). 

Playing Farkeball we probably could have got promoted again this season, Nunez and Sara relishing the amount of posession we would have had playing Farke's way. They are two players that to me are crying out for a system that works in their favour.

the problem is with Wagner 11 games without a win

so we wait and then we get his players and then still waiting next season comes still waiting for this big statement of wonderful football and it never comes =signings a waste =pre season a waste = next season a write  off after 10 games 

the early signs are there this will not work lets act before it happens next season it already has this season and it was not good enough 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

2 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

the problem is with Wagner 11 games without a win

so we wait and then we get his players and then still waiting next season comes still waiting for this big statement of wonderful football and it never comes =signings a waste =pre season a waste = next season a write  off after 10 games 

the early signs are there this will not work lets act before it happens next season it already has this season and it was not good enough 

I made this point. With no credit at all in the tank it is foolish to build round him. Lose the first couple and toxic atmosphere is all but guaranteed- and then what? Sack him having chucked a wedge building round him. Madness. We should get a new manager this week - a total fresh start and go from there. Building round a man who served up the last 11 games is just throwing good money at bad. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

We really need a good bowel movement, so much turd to flush away in the summer. 

[Yobocop 1,099]

On 08/05/2023 at 18:55, Dean Coneys boots said:

1. He has had months to showcase his talent and the club has gone backwards at an alarming pace. He has failed tbe audition on any metric you want to choose. 

2. He has no credit in the bank- if the team lose first game next season it will be toxic immediately 

3. He is a manager on a downward turn whose only decent spell was a long time ago. Recent CV should have been a clue 

4. his style is a different which means rebuilding on his vision with specific player type - that is very risky- if he is sacked after 10 games next season then what? 

5. Building a team round a manager with a record like this is chucking good money after bad

Sorry to rain on your parade but damage was done long before Wagner stepped foot in the door 

We have already got rid of some deadwood with more to go, three key sales in the summer of Aarons, Maddison and Rashica will give the team a decent amount of money to spend 

not to mention the crop of youngsters we have coming through and of course Bali Mumba after an exceptional season at Plymouth.

very easy to paint a negative picture without looking at true facts and glossing over the good work which HAS happened at NCFC down the years 

 

 

 

[Mello Yello 2,296]

 ..."Now is the Summer of our discontent!"...

[Mike w 46]

On 08/05/2023 at 19:15, Capt. Pants said:

Now take this how you will, but I've heard from a person who's friendly with a player leaving the club this summer that Wagner is not at all popular with the players.

It's not necessarily a bad thing but it's a very unhappy camp.

Wagner has to get his own lackies in. Personally I think he's a gonna.

10 games not top 6 then he's gone. I'd sack him now though.

my feeling also that players have no respect for him. Players in last month show no appetite to play. Terrible performances and to finish in bottom half and no goals at home for umpteen matches shows that. 28 shots against Blackpool and not score sums ti up 'lets get rid of ball' mentality

No effort is just appalling for everyone of the supporters

 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

39 minutes ago, Mike w said:

my feeling also that players have no respect for him. Players in last month show no appetite to play. Terrible performances and to finish in bottom half and no goals at home for umpteen matches shows that. 28 shots against Blackpool and not score sums ti up 'lets get rid of ball' mentality

No effort is just appalling for everyone of the supporters

 

He doesn't communicate with them apparently.

Mind you I think that was the case with Lambert and he left that kind of stuff to Culverhouse. That didn't turn out too bad.

 

[rock bus 854]

9 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

He doesn't communicate with them apparently.

Mind you I think that was the case with Lambert and he left that kind of stuff to Culverhouse. That didn't turn out too bad.

 

I find that bit hard to believe, he seems to focus a lot on relationships with players when he speaks and appears very personable. He is also a very emotive on side line and quite 'touchy feely' with the players!

I cant see lack of communication being a problem, although what he says and the tactical advice could be complete rubbish though given how they are playing!!

[Commonsense 624]

On 08/05/2023 at 19:58, S_81 said:

Our fans are some of the most passive in English football. Very rarely do they do anything but cheer on their team. It takes a hell of a lot to protest. Wagner has seen nothing but support inside that ground. He’d have been run out of town at other clubs already. 

Do you really believe this? At times they appear to have turned into an over entitled bunch. Criticism has been almost constant with support patchy at best. I know performances have left a lot to be desired but I see no evidence that ‘it takes a hell of a lot to protest’

[Commonsense 624]

3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

He doesn't communicate with them apparently.

Mind you I think that was the case with Lambert and he left that kind of stuff to Culverhouse. That didn't turn out too bad.

 

Well at least until they got to Villa, where Culverhouse’s ‘communication’ left a lot to be desired.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,287]

My concerns with Wagner;

- In game management. Bizarre substitutions having no positive impact, and often making us worse and killing the game off.

- Another square pegs in round holes tactician. Throwing three strikers on like it’s playground football, continuing to play Sargent out wide, starting Aarons as a winger and talking of Mumba at full back.

- Losing mentality, and starting next season on the back foot. No ‘free hits’ even if the general feeling at the time of his appointment was that the rest of the season was just that. It did for Smith, and will do for Wagner.  

When Wagner was appointed I was dubious. But any concerns were put to bed after hearing him talk to the media and then the Preston and Cov games. But in reality, was it just pining for another Farke era and the warm feeling of familiarity? Farke was a one off.. the feeling remained for most of the recent bad run.. but it started to evaporate after the loss to Boro, and now it’s just not there anymore. He’s just a manger that’s overseen an horrendous run, which he is accountable for.

However, whilst Webber is still here, I don’t want him sacked. I don’t want Webber appointing another manager at this football club, ever again.

[S_81 803]

1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

Do you really believe this? At times they appear to have turned into an over entitled bunch. Criticism has been almost constant with support patchy at best. I know performances have left a lot to be desired but I see no evidence that ‘it takes a hell of a lot to protest’

Whinging on a message board and Twitter is very different to large scale protest inside the ground. We really have a very passive fan base in my opinion yes. In the ground dissent and protest would be far more obvious at other clubs by now. 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

5 hours ago, rock bus said:

I find that bit hard to believe, he seems to focus a lot on relationships with players when he speaks and appears very personable. He is also a very emotive on side line and quite 'touchy feely' with the players!

I cant see lack of communication being a problem, although what he says and the tactical advice could be complete rubbish though given how they are playing!!

i agree he seems a chatty bloke 

but it seems that all he says is these are not the players for his system and he needs transfer windows to replace them 

maybe and just guess work players are fed up with not good enough for my system vibe 

 

[Big Vince 318]

On 08/05/2023 at 22:10, Tommo said:

The stats I agree are indisputably favouring the removal of Wagner. The feeling of lack of ambition from the very top is what ultimately has to filter into the players mentalities eventually. Being a yo-yo club cannot be sustained . With the benefit of hindsight the sale of Buendia on the back of a successful promotion is the ultimate definition to the players that we lack ambition and are just happy to flit between the two leagues. 
trying to motivate this group of players whether it be Wagner or another manager to have turned this season around I think would have been a virtually impossible task. 
 

 

Agreed. Players will not buy into the idea of bouncing off a glass ceiling in perpetuity. There has to be a fundamental change in the way the club is run.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,770]

I'll add another one...

Brexit rules now mean that he cant sign the type of players he was able to from Germany (or indeed as Webber/Farke did) to help Huddersfield get promoted.

If we cant use his continental knowledge to make signings,I dont see why he would be better than any British manager who knows this league