At a crossroads

[Dean Coneys boots 1,422]

Anyone can see that we have reached the end of a chapter. Many players have achieved all they will hear and need moving on. The current owners are very old now and have nothing much left to give - save handing over the reigns. The sporting director took us on one hell of an adventure but we are now back at square one. Needing a rebuild with little in the coffers. Ground hog day. 
 

What happens next do you think? The dice will roll this summer (we are not going up even if we make the playoffs. Which we won’t) 

1) 2 season rebuild and promotion again 

2) straight up next season 

3) languish for a decade in the champs 

4) relegated within two seasons 

ownership and money will play a part. Which do you see happening? 

[hogesar 9,810]

3 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Anyone can see that we have reached the end of a chapter. Many players have achieved all they will hear and need moving on. The current owners are very old now and have nothing much left to give - save handing over the reigns. The sporting director took us on one hell of an adventure but we are now back at square one. Needing a rebuild with little in the coffers. Ground hog day. 
 

What happens next do you think? The dice will roll this summer (we are not going up even if we make the playoffs. Which we won’t) 

1) 2 season rebuild and promotion again 

2) straight up next season 

3) languish for a decade in the champs 

4) relegated within two seasons 

ownership and money will play a part. Which do you see happening? 

So your summary is next season we could get promoted, stay in the division or get relegated.

I will defend you against anyone who doesn't think you're a visionary.

[daly 515]

Future looks bleak

Academy offers very little

No money according to BOD for  new players 

Mid Championship at best for the unforeseeable  future 

Disgusting how the amount of money that has come to NCFC coffers has been squandered 

Time for a change at the top

 

 

 

[Cowboy 211]

3. or possibly 4. if I'm honest.

Need a lucky break with unearthing a few cheap diamonds to break the doom and gloom again, but that luck may have run out.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,157]

I would hope that there is some money available this summer and that Webber is just being coy, trying to downplay expectations and the deflate the asking price of clubs we try to buy from. He said similar last summer and we spent about 15m in total on Sara and Nunez plus loan fees for Hayden and Ramsay and that was while only selling Lees-Melou for a small fee. We have whatever was going on with the shares and parachute payment loans (goes totally over my head to be honest) plus the potential departures of Aarons and a few OOC's that should give us something to play with this summer. So I think we should be able to do a rebuild albeit with lots of cheap gambles again. 

Nobody really knows though but my gut feeling is that we're at the end of a cycle and unless we perform another miracle and uncover another Pukki-Buendia combination we're looking at an extended stay in the Championship over the next few years. I'm not worried about relegation though, we're really not that much of a shambles compared to other clubs (for now and in the near future) but my instinct tells me we're not going to be going up automatically again any time soon. 

[raunds canary 218]

We will go to Blackburn and win comfortably then win at Middlesbrough but lose at home to Rotherham with Jordan hugill scoring the winner 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,422]

33 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So your summary is next season we could get promoted, stay in the division or get relegated.

I will defend you against anyone who doesn't think you're a visionary.

Try reading. The post isn’t predicting at all- it is asking a question; what immediate future do people think most likely.  It was setting up a debate not answering the question posed. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Dean Coneys boots

[Danke bitte 967]

2 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I would hope that there is some money available this summer and that Webber is just being coy, trying to downplay expectations and the deflate the asking price of clubs we try to buy from. He said similar last summer and we spent about 15m in total on Sara and Nunez plus loan fees for Hayden and Ramsay and that was while only selling Lees-Melou for a small fee. We have whatever was going on with the shares and parachute payment loans (goes totally over my head to be honest) plus the potential departures of Aarons and a few OOC's that should give us something to play with this summer. So I think we should be able to do a rebuild albeit with lots of cheap gambles again. 

Nobody really knows though but my gut feeling is that we're at the end of a cycle and unless we perform another miracle and uncover another Pukki-Buendia combination we're looking at an extended stay in the Championship over the next few years. I'm not worried about relegation though, we're really not that much of a shambles compared to other clubs (for now and in the near future) but my instinct tells me we're not going to be going up automatically again any time soon. 

A fair assessment. When you look at the opportunities we’ve had it’s galling. But equally we never had a pool of money to dip into to do so. I don’t know what lies in store from now on but I think we’re better than mid table Championship given the amount of £ poured into the academy which I feel, if we keep on top of it, will bear fruit to help us push into play offs and some. 

[Chichcan 148]

Wagner is the big unknown for me

Will we get the Wagner from Huddersfield days and see a big change after he's had a preseason and some say in shaping the squad

Or was he a one-hit wonder?

I don't know but I think we'll probably be pushing for play offs again next year

[By Hook or Ian crook 925]

51 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Anyone can see that we have reached the end of a chapter. Many players have achieved all they will hear and need moving on. The current owners are very old now and have nothing much left to give - save handing over the reigns. The sporting director took us on one hell of an adventure but we are now back at square one. Needing a rebuild with little in the coffers. Ground hog day. 
 

What happens next do you think? The dice will roll this summer (we are not going up even if we make the playoffs. Which we won’t) 

1) 2 season rebuild and promotion again 

2) straight up next season 

3) languish for a decade in the champs 

4) relegated within two seasons 

ownership and money will play a part. Which do you see happening? 

If we get taken over we could do well next year. If we do not I fear a repeat of the Roeder days. 

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,899]

44 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

1) 2 season rebuild and promotion again 

2) straight up next season 

3) languish for a decade in the champs 

4) relegated within two seasons 

There are so many variables at the mo it's almost impossible to say. Do we even have a transfer kitty for the Summer without selling what 'decent' players we have?  Will Attanasio have cemented his control of the club further by then or have decided he doesn't like what he sees and **** off back to Yanktown? Is Wagner a busted flush? Will we ever see a defensive midfielder play in the yellow and green again?

18 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Try reading. The post isn’t predicting at all- it is asking a question; what immediate future do people think most likely.  It was setting up a debate not answering the question posed. 

I must commend you on your use of a semi colon; I salute you sir!

OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,656]

Attanasio out.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,899]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Attanasio out.

I don't think he's quite in yet - maybe just the tip. More penetration needed. 

OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,656]

4 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

I don't think he's quite in yet - maybe just the tip. More penetration needed. 

OTBC

Well get the tip out!

Edited April 1, 2023 by nutty nigel
😂

[Dean Coneys boots 1,422]

I think it all hinges on summer recruiting- which doesn’t fill me with confidence. Whoever said Roeder years part 2 might be on to something…

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,820]

We could do with a couple of things happening in the summer....Rashica being sold for good money...Maddison being sold for huge money and a sell on clause being triggered.

Then Wagner needs to recruit , as far as Brexit rules will allow , by exploiting his continental knowledge.

Webber needs to be removed from responsibility of transfers and having overseen the upgrading of the training facility, removed from office.

In terms of our league chances, that largely depends on who comes down

Next season could be a lot harder than this should the likes of Everton and West Ham come down

Edited April 2, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[hogesar 9,810]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I think it all hinges on summer recruiting- which doesn’t fill me with confidence. Whoever said Roeder years part 2 might be on to something…

Or they're onto nothing and just predicting doom like usual on this season. If you're predicting that then going by previous championship campaigns we'll win the title at a canter.

[kingsway 94]

Things soon change in football which if you've been following Norwich for more than longer than a decade you'd of seen.

 

I agree we are at a crossroads and after the early optimism over Wagner, recent performances especially yesterdays clueless attacking square pegs in round holes Dean Smithesque performance I'm not so sure about him.

 

I've said many times in the past that 3 of the best players we've seen here in the last 20 years messrs Hoolahan, Russell Martin and Grant Holt cost £1M combined and were lower League journeymen when we signed them. - The point is even without money with the right recruitment and a manager playing the them to their strengths you can still achieve success without splashing the huge wads of cash out! - EG - Luton Town at present!

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by kingsway

[Well b back 3,309]

3 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

We could do with a couple of things happening in the summer....Rashica being sold for good money...Maddison being sold for huge money and a sell on clause being triggered.

Then Wagner needs to recruit , as far as Brexit rules will allow , by exploiting his continental knowledge.

Webber needs to be removed from responsibility of transfers and having overseen the upgrading of the training facility, removed from office.

In terms of our league chances, that largely depends on who comes down

Next season could be a lot harder than this should the likes of Everton and West Ham come down

A question here, not a statement.

If Webber goes doesn’t Wagner go as well ?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,820]

14 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A question here, not a statement.

If Webber goes doesn’t Wagner go as well ?

Maybe..maybe not

If thats the collateral damage then so be it but I can't accept that in the whole wide world of football that Webber can be the only/best person out there responsible for heading recruitment. His record over the last 4 seasons has forefitted that right to continue

[Jim Smith 2,365]

We should do what we can to get Greg Broughton from Blackburn to replace Webber. The vast majority of our “crown Jewell’s” (nearly all gone now) were down to him. 

[norfolkngood 1,095]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

A question here, not a statement.

If Webber goes doesn’t Wagner go as well ?

might not be a bad thing 

The head coach should be able to improve players as well as organise lesser players to play as a team 

We need a Head coach who does get that extra out of player si do not think Wagner does that here

Edited April 2, 2023 by norfolkngood

[Well b back 3,309]

4 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

might not be a bad thing 

The head coach should be able to improve players as well as organise lesser players to play as a team 

We need a Head coach who does get that extra out of player si do not think Wagner does that here

Can’t overly disagree, but I keep seeing these Webber out let Wagner rebuild. When I saw the team yesterday my head changed from excitement to concern. But is changing manager every 2 minutes going to help ? Or of course is it Wagner can’t play his system with the current available players. 
 

[norfolkngood 1,095]

10 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Can’t overly disagree, but I keep seeing these Webber out let Wagner rebuild. When I saw the team yesterday my head changed from excitement to concern. But is changing manager every 2 minutes going to help ? Or of course is it Wagner can’t play his system with the current available players. 
 

you would like to think most of the players would be used to his system or very close as some played under Farke also a fairly common style these days 

i am not one for sacking Managers every 2 minutes but if Webber goes the new Dof maybe want his man who he knows etc 

i think that is why Wagner got the job as Webber was in trouble and went to his man who he trusted and maybe not the best manager we could of got 

 

 

[Bovril 221]

Webber (perhaps correctly) saw that we simply couldn't survive in the Premier League playing a neat-passing game with the finances we had avalible to recruit the necessary talent. 

So Farke's 2nd season in the EPL, Webber tried to recruit a more pragmatic style of player which led to Farke's sacking and Smith's appointment. It was worth a try but spectaculary failed on many fronts. 

As a result we now have a completely mixed squad of 'passing' style footballers and more 'pragmatic' style footballers which has led us to our current problems where there is neither one nor the other. We can't play possession based as we don't have the No.10 to create and we can't play pragmatic whilst we play Pukki (and the crowd want to see the former rather than later style in any case). 

It's a real problem. Financially, we cannot survive in the EPL playing possession-based, we simply can't afford to recruit the players to do so on our budget. Therefore, the only way to try and stay up is to play Brentford-esque, for that we need a focal point and target man ala a Grant Holt or Ivan Toney. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,157]

7 hours ago, Bovril said:

Webber (perhaps correctly) saw that we simply couldn't survive in the Premier League playing a neat-passing game with the finances we had avalible to recruit the necessary talent. 

So Farke's 2nd season in the EPL, Webber tried to recruit a more pragmatic style of player which led to Farke's sacking and Smith's appointment. It was worth a try but spectaculary failed on many fronts. 

As a result we now have a completely mixed squad of 'passing' style footballers and more 'pragmatic' style footballers which has led us to our current problems where there is neither one nor the other. We can't play possession based as we don't have the No.10 to create and we can't play pragmatic whilst we play Pukki (and the crowd want to see the former rather than later style in any case). 

It's a real problem. Financially, we cannot survive in the EPL playing possession-based, we simply can't afford to recruit the players to do so on our budget. Therefore, the only way to try and stay up is to play Brentford-esque, for that we need a focal point and target man ala a Grant Holt or Ivan Toney. 

Good assessment. My problem with us signing more 'physical/pragmatic' players is that we went for the wrong physical attributes for the style of football that our head coaches are going for and that the fans are willing to tolerate. We went for bigger lads who are more hard working, but we were never, ever going to start playing long ball so adding that to our possession based philosophy was only going to subtract from what we had without adding anything meaningful. I look at Sargent, Lees-Melou, Kabak and Normann as examples of this. I think we did try to get some pace and directness with Rashica but he isn't particually fast or skillful by PL standards so that just reeked of signing a player who fits the mold but is someone who all of our rivals passed over. He might have done better though if he was just one of that type of player we signed instead of the only one and the one we had to rely on solely. 

What we should have done is target pace and dribbling ability instead of size/workrate and strength. Farke could have had a go with some pacy players in the side to add to our passing philosophy and if that didn't work Smith could have set us up on the counter and we could've hurt teams that way. Instead we signed a lot of 'Burnley under Dyche' type players who just didn't suit what we did before or what we were trying to move towards.

When saying Farke's 18/19 team wasn't physical enough the fix wasn't as simple and two dimensional as sign bigger players who work harder. I was more annoyed at our lack of pace and dribbling ability one v one than I was our strength on the ball or ability to win balls in the air. I kinda feel like we learned the wrong lessons from our first PL season under Farke. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Christoph Stiepermann

[Midlands Yellow 4,118]

Amy Turtle and Miss Diane. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Midlands Yellow