Unfortunately

[City fan 78]

The current atmosphere at the club and football on the on the pitch is similar to when city dropped into league 1 a few years ago. Unless there is a massive change at the club over the summer I can see city being in a relagation fight next season. History will show that Webber has taken the playing side of the club backwards. 

[hogesar 9,679]

A lot of people on here said the same after Farke's first season.

[Davidlingfield 63]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

A lot of people on here said the same after Farke's first season.

A lot of differences behind the scenes this time - terrible senior management, no independent oversight, no accountability - it’s the slippery slope unless the ‘takeover’ changes things.

[hogesar 9,679]

Just now, Davidlingfield said:

A lot of differences behind the scenes this time - terrible senior management, no independent oversight, no accountability - it’s the slippery slope unless the ‘takeover’ changes things.

Again, half those things were complaints back then. In fact, any season we're not doing well they're all part of a make-up of complaints.

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

Just now, hogesar said:

Again, half those things were complaints back then. In fact, any season we're not doing well they're all part of a make-up of complaints.

Absolutely- there’s nothing like the feel when we went to L1. Anyone saying otherwise either wasn’t around or is dreaming. 

[Davidlingfield 63]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Again, half those things were complaints back then. In fact, any season we're not doing well they're all part of a make-up of complaints.

I hope you are right!!

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Absolutely- there’s nothing like the feel when we went to L1. Anyone saying otherwise either wasn’t around or is dreaming. 

I challenge the OP to take a look at the squad list on this page and tell me the similarities he sees are valid.

For starters, that season we used sixteen loan players, whereas this season we've used two. And that's before you factor in the Cat 1 academy, the parachute payments, the relatively quality of Wagner as a manager compared to Roeder/Gunn... oh, and the small matter of an impending takeover by wealthy Americans (when we went down to L1, for comparison, Delia and Michael had to dig into their pockets to plug the £2m gap left by the Turners disappearing).

Sure, it's a pivotal time for the club, I'm not denying that. But a lot of things would have to go very, very wrong for us to get sucked into a Championship relegation battle. I'm sure the manager and players haven't given up on promotion yet, either... we're only four points off the play-offs with 27 points to play for.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,288]

24 minutes ago, City fan said:

The current atmosphere at the club and football on the on the pitch is similar to when city dropped into league 1 a few years ago. Unless there is a massive change at the club over the summer I can see city being in a relagation fight next season. History will show that Webber has taken the playing side of the club backwards. 

It’s not that bad, not even close.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

20 minutes ago, hogesar said:

A lot of people on here said the same after Farke's first season.

Since then recruitment  has gone down the toilet. We are back where we started. We might get lucky again with a new free Pukki and an Emi. But equally we might not this time. Bottom line is that the club has squandered nearly £80million assembling a rank average championship side. With many leaving this summer wages will be available- but there is no cash for a major rebuild which is needed. So get used to L1 standard crock Idah leading the attack for seasons to come 

[hogesar 9,679]

9 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Since then recruitment  has gone down the toilet. We are back where we started. We might get lucky again with a new free Pukki and an Emi. But equally we might not this time. Bottom line is that the club has squandered nearly £80million assembling a rank average championship side. With many leaving this summer wages will be available- but there is no cash for a major rebuild which is needed. So get used to L1 standard crock Idah leading the attack for seasons to come 

I don't personally think Idah is League One standard, although injuries could unfortunately make that a reality, I'd rather hope not.

I don't think recruitment has "gone down the toilet". I think two games ago people were really worried about losing Sara for £35m to West Ham. How many clubs regularly sign players at our level who within a season are wanted by bigger, richer clubs? Even Nunez was being lapped up a few games ago. Sargent was hailed as the better option than Pukki up front until he...wasn't. 

It's probably best not to make silly bold predictions about what will happen or not happen because the reality is none of us know and we had enough fans on here moaning about swapping Pritchard for Emi before seeing the latter play to realise that the desperation for some drama on this forum is like some men's equal to Eastenders or something.

[Bert 236]

I think we can all safely say it was never ever ever this bad under Chris Hughton 

[rock bus 854]

All those saying it wont happen might like to have a look at the position of our opponents last night who recently had made a better go at being a premier league team than us!

Not saying it will happen but there is a risk as things feel a bit toxic at the moment.

[shefcanary 2,410]

Performances like last night hopefully hasten the Attanasio era to kick in fully.

The source of new players in the short term will be the academy. We might pick up the odd great young player a la Sara / Buendia, but I'm beginning to go with @nutty nigel's view that as fans we will have to settle for a couple of seasons of moribund performance on the pitch until the Attanasio plan fully kicks in. It is what happens from time to time. 

The money from Sara and the Maddison dividend will keep the show on the road for those couple of seasons, whilst we gird our loins for what will come after the next World Cup. We'll probably lose to the Binners a couple of times too unfortunately. But as I reach retirement age things will start happening again.

It is what it is.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I challenge the OP to take a look at the squad list on this page and tell me the similarities he sees are valid.

For starters, that season we used sixteen loan players, whereas this season we've used two. And that's before you factor in the Cat 1 academy, the parachute payments, the relatively quality of Wagner as a manager compared to Roeder/Gunn... oh, and the small matter of an impending takeover by wealthy Americans (when we went down to L1, for comparison, Delia and Michael had to dig into their pockets to plug the £2m gap left by the Turners disappearing).

Sure, it's a pivotal time for the club, I'm not denying that. But a lot of things would have to go very, very wrong for us to get sucked into a Championship relegation battle. I'm sure the manager and players haven't given up on promotion yet, either... we're only four points off the play-offs with 27 points to play for.

Agree with what you say, as you say a pivotal season next season, an awful lot needs to go right to make us a competitive team competing for the play off spots, let alone automatic promotion..............

[Indy 3,301]

There are never any guarantees on promotion, so many clubs including us have spend a large period of time outside the top flight and the EFL FFP rules imply the longer you’re down here post relegation the harder it is to get promoted.

Leeds & Forest show just how hard it is, but once you’re up you need to spend wisely to give yourself a fighting chance of staying up. The reality is we need stability and build a squad not only capable of getting up but staying up, that means not selling the best chance on promotion.

Personally I can’t see why McLean has been given such a daft extension to his contract, this squad should be assessed by the manager and then the clubs coaches and scouts clearly define a vision based upon a budget set. It is time to let go of the Farke era, let those players go who’ve not been good enough in two attempts in the premiership and build on a future challenge. Hanley & Gibson are just too full of mistakes, look at our goals conceded in the past five seasons to tell you all you need to know. Time to blood  the future and drop the past, if Pukki, Dowell, Byram and the others out of contract aren’t required or want to be elsewhere then let them go in the summer and cut them out of the squad, we have 9 games left and likely hood of promotion is very slim. Time to assess the squad and start to plan next season’s campaign. Target what we need now and start recruiting early, know who we need and get them in as soon as we can, not last minute.

Time indeed for a reset, for all the criticism of Webber, he’s done it before and he’s good enough with Wagner to do it again, we can see the glimpse of good time ahead, but we really need to cut the deadwood now and start to plan, as they say **** poor planning leads to **** poor results.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

9 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Agree with what you say, as you say a pivotal season next season, an awful lot needs to go right to make us a competitive team competing for the play off spots, let alone automatic promotion..............

I think the most significant thing that needed to go right has already happened, and that's getting Deano and Shakey out of the club and reverting to a manager who wants to play brave front-foot football. As we saw with Farke, that kind of football doesn't click overnight. We've seen flashes of it, but with a full summer window and pre-season (not to mention parachute payments and possible additional investment from the Attanasios), I trust Wagner to get us competing at the right end of the table.

Personally, I don't think you can overstate quite how appalling an appointment Dean Smith was. Still can't get my head around how they threw themselves at him so quickly after Farke's departure.

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Personally, I don't think you can overstate quite how appalling an appointment Dean Smith was. Still can't get my head around how they threw themselves at him so quickly after Farke's departure.

Can only presume he was 2nd or 3rd choice and that was based on ticking the promotion and survival boxes rather than what he brings as a head coach and his fit here.

And to give Smith some credit, earlier in the season we picked up 7 wins, 2 draws in 10 games and not even playing particularly great.... So, while Wagner does need time, there's also the possibility of replicating a run like that now as same squad.

Tough 2 games coming up, time to get serious and we'll find out what we're made of.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think the most significant thing that needed to go right has already happened, and that's getting Deano and Shakey out of the club and reverting to a manager who wants to play brave front-foot football. As we saw with Farke, that kind of football doesn't click overnight. We've seen flashes of it, but with a full summer window and pre-season (not to mention parachute payments and possible additional investment from the Attanasios), I trust Wagner to get us competing at the right end of the table.

Personally, I don't think you can overstate quite how appalling an appointment Dean Smith was. Still can't get my head around how they threw themselves at him so quickly after Farke's departure.

Again I broadly agree with you, I have no issues with Wagner. Where I thinks things need to "go right" are on the pitch in terms of players that are not only good enough to mount a challenge on the automatic promotion places but also to make a decent fist of playing in the Premier League, as has bee discussed elsewhere a look at the current squad suggests that you would be hard pressed to find that many players good enough for a spot on the bench in the Premier League (On a personal note I do not expect or demand miracles in this respect)  I know it has been done to death but personally I have never been convinced by Webber, whatever argument is thrown at me I will never be convinced his record is that good, so for me he needs to be replaced by somebody that is competent.............

[Google Bot 3,278]

8 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

so for me he needs to be replaced by somebody that is competent.............

That person being who, though?

I think we already have someone who's in the higher percentage of available suitors. 

Is it that you think he's only average versus the available pool?  Or simply that we need a change due to the backlog of criticism he now carries?

There's talk of how Smith didn't really fit the club and I do wonder if Webber is starting to go that way with his perceived ego and appearance to just have too much say across all aspects here.   I do really like the guy still though.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Google Bot

[nutty nigel 7,539]

12 hours ago, City fan said:

The current atmosphere at the club and football on the on the pitch is similar to when city dropped into league 1 a few years ago. Unless there is a massive change at the club over the summer I can see city being in a relagation fight next season. History will show that Webber has taken the playing side of the club backwards. 

What's league one been like over the last few seasons?

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

That person being who, though?

I think we already have someone who's in the higher percentage of available suitors. 

Is it that you think he's only average versus the available pool?  Or simply that we need a change due to the backlog of criticism he now carries?

Was just about to reply with something similar. You can only ever draw broad-brush parallels, but I'd suggest there are SDs who have had much greater budgets (both transfer and wages) and achieved a lot less than two Championship titles.

Yes, of course there are outliers and overachievers such as Brentford and Brighton, but Benham and Bloom are many, many times richer than our owners. All I hear about is clubs falling foul of FFP, having transfer embargos imposed, selling their stadiums for inflated prices and renting them back... but we've done all this sustainably. I think Webber deserves a great deal of credit for that.

At how many other clubs would eyebrows be raised about borrowing against future income? We've done it for the first time this season, pretty much every other club does it every year as a matter of course. Hopefully this is a sign that the Attanasios mean business and have a plan to push us to the next level.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

13 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

That person being who, though?

I think we already have someone who's in the higher percentage of available suitors. 

Is it that you think he's only average versus the available pool?  Or simply that we need a change due to the backlog of criticism he now carries?

A fair question and my honest answer is no idea. I can only form a personal opinion on what I see in front of me, if you are telling me that Webber is one of the best in the business then fair enough, it suggests to me a very low bar. For me it is not about personality or the criticism, it is just that on a personal level I am not convinced his record is that great..........

Edited March 16, 2023 by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Was just about to reply with something similar. You can only ever draw broad-brush parallels, but I'd suggest there are SDs who have had much greater budgets (both transfer and wages) and achieved a lot less than two Championship titles.

Yes, of course there are outliers and overachievers such as Brentford and Brighton, but Benham and Bloom are many, many times richer than our owners. All I hear about is clubs falling foul of FFP, having transfer embargos imposed, selling their stadiums for inflated prices and renting them back... but we've done all this sustainably. I think Webber deserves a great deal of credit for that.

At how many other clubs would eyebrows be raised about borrowing against future income? We've done it for the first time this season, pretty much every other club does it every year as a matter of course. Hopefully this is a sign that the Attanasios mean business and have a plan to push us to the next level.

Again I do not disagree with what you say, my question would be do you think we have progressed after those two league title wins?. Do you think that the current squad is stronger or weaker than the squad at Daniel Farkes disposal when he got sacked?........

[Google Bot 3,278]

30 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

if you are telling me that Webber is one of the best in the business then fair enough, it suggests to me a very low bar.

Or together with McNally the bar has been raised on where we expect this club to be?

McNally was no fool, he came in to the club with a very good background and experience from Fulham...  Webber has followed on with the mentality of wanting to leave the club in a better state than when he came in and you can see he's either picked up existing plans and seen them through to completion or built his own legacy here too.

League position is just temporary, let's not forget.  I don't think you can get blind-sided by that as much as it hurts right now.

Both the aforementioned sit high on a pedestal for me, I don't fancy our chances of getting a third man (or woman) who's better than either.  It would be an incredible achievement by the club to make a third progressive appointment, and that's what concerns me.

Plus, I just think there's too much blood in Webber's veins for this club with Wagner coming in and the Attanasio deal going through.  I dunno, would you really take the risk at this point? 

You go back to the fruit machine after twice winning the jackpot you can find yourself kebab-less walking home.  (Only high brow analogies here lol).

Edited March 16, 2023 by Google Bot

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

13 hours ago, City fan said:

The current atmosphere at the club and football on the on the pitch is similar to when city dropped into league 1 a few years ago. Unless there is a massive change at the club over the summer I can see city being in a relagation fight next season. History will show that Webber has taken the playing side of the club backwards. 

It’s the pathetic ‘No Shows’ in our last 2 seasons in the Premier League. Southampton this campaign are awful but have already surpassed our points total in both seasons. They have damaged the fans and plenty of the current squad more than most appreciate. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Midlands Yellow

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

34 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Again I do not disagree with what you say, my question would be do you think we have progressed after those two league title wins?. Do you think that the current squad is stronger or weaker than the squad at Daniel Farkes disposal when he got sacked?........

My answer would be no, I do not think we have progressed after those two league title wins, and I think the current squad is weaker than the squad at Daniel Farke's disposal when he got sacked. I'm not saying Webber hasn't made mistakes, far from it – just that those mistakes can be mitigated against the limited budget he has to work with.

And, as I've said earlier on this thread, I believe that appointing Dean Smith was a monumental error of judgement that has wiped out a fair amount of the credit that Webber has in the bank. I'm prepared to be patient and give Webber and Wagner the chance to work together properly over the summer, identify targets and have a good crack at next season.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

13 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

I challenge the OP to take a look at the squad list on this page and tell me the similarities he sees are valid.

For starters, that season we used sixteen loan players, whereas this season we've used two. And that's before you factor in the Cat 1 academy, the parachute payments, the relatively quality of Wagner as a manager compared to Roeder/Gunn... oh, and the small matter of an impending takeover by wealthy Americans (when we went down to L1, for comparison, Delia and Michael had to dig into their pockets to plug the £2m gap left by the Turners disappearing).

Sure, it's a pivotal time for the club, I'm not denying that. But a lot of things would have to go very, very wrong for us to get sucked into a Championship relegation battle. I'm sure the manager and players haven't given up on promotion yet, either... we're only four points off the play-offs with 27 points to play for.

I'm not sure that comparing this season with our Championship relegation season is particularly relevant, not difficult to work on the assumption that he means that period post-relegation with Worthington and the steady decline which followed over the next few seasons which accelerated greatly following the loss of parachute payments.

Lets hope that history doesn't repeat itself with the withdrawal of interested investors, the Turner's walking away and reneging on their multi-million pound interest free loan pledge when the financial crisis started to develop was a large part of the problem. Two banks have just failed, and Credit Suisse are in trouble, and our investor is exposed to sub prime debt markets. 

On this basis the comparison would be this season with the 2005/06 season wouldn't it? And its potentially not a terrible one, we finished 9th that season, and sacked the manager we came down with in the first half of the season. Some would say eerily similar. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[Yobocop 1,099]

13 hours ago, City fan said:

The current atmosphere at the club and football on the on the pitch is similar to when city dropped into league 1 a few years ago. Unless there is a massive change at the club over the summer I can see city being in a relagation fight next season. History will show that Webber has taken the playing side of the club backwards. 

Only read your comment so far and I hope others have pulled you up on this 

no where near the situation when we dropped into league one

> league one we had 9 loan players was it? And the squad was ageing and not up to it - we currently have a young squad with a few talented players within that: sara, Aarons 

> when we went into league one the training ground was falling apart and in some aspects so was the stadium. We now have a state of the art training ground and stadium is looking better than it ever has 

> when we got relegated to league one, we had no idea in terms of back room recruitment, love Bryan Gunn but he was never going to succeed, we have a forward thinking manager now who has managed well at this level previously and managed in champions and top leagues in England and Germany 

 

before making reactionary and Ridiculous scare mongering posts, stop and have a little think about what you’re typing and how utterly cretinous it makes you sound 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm not sure that comparing this season with our Championship relegation season is particularly relevant, not difficult to work on the assumption that he means that period post-relegation with Worthington and the steady decline which followed over the next few seasons.

On this basis the comparison would be this season with the 2005/06 season, and its potentially not a terrible one, we finished 9th that season. 

You're cutting the OP way too much slack there. They said we'd be in a relegation battle next season, which would make this season 2007/8.

And that's before taking the first sentence at first value: "The current atmosphere at the club and football on the on the pitch is similar to when city dropped into league 1 a few years ago."

The OP is, frankly, bóllocks.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Only read your comment so far and I hope others have pulled you up on this 

no where near the situation when we dropped into league one

> league one we had 9 loan players was it? And the squad was ageing and not up to it - we currently have a young squad with a few talented players within that: sara, Aarons 

> when we went into league one the training ground was falling apart and in some aspects so was the stadium. We now have a state of the art training ground and stadium is looking better than it ever has 

> when we got relegated to league one, we had no idea in terms of back room recruitment, love Bryan Gunn but he was never going to succeed, we have a forward thinking manager now who has managed well at this level previously and managed in champions and top leagues in England and Germany 

before making reactionary and Ridiculous scare mongering posts, stop and have a little think about what you’re typing and how utterly cretinous it makes you sound 

Our relegation to League One was the result of several years of decline, starting with us finishing 9th in our first year of parachute payments after sacking the manager we were relegated with in 2005/06.