Could we be on the brink financially?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just speculating but we spent hugely in the Prem season, made a huge loss, stuck with players like Rashica and Tsoliz on the payroll whilst we probably pay half their wages. 

And for the first season ever under Webber we've failed to recoup substantial fees in the transfer market for our players.

Meanwhile we're not sacking a failing manager, the club has limited press access, and our CFO has basically admitted there is no money in the pot.

How quickly could this end up a Robert Chase situation? 

We've seen relegation to League One, we've flogged our f*cking corner stand to a hotel chain, we've seen Brian Hamilton, Peter Grant, Bryan Gunn, we've seen a procession of dreadful players like Mark Fotheringham.

And yet this is the first time since the end of the Robert Chase era that we've actually seen people staying away from games because they feel disenfranchised / disconnected. 

Does anybody else have this deep sense of dread that something big is happening here, that things might currently be worse than we know? Do we even have the money to sack Smith and Shakespeare?

Edited December 17, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Surely not. We still have parachute money next season.

[lake district canary 4,586]

Money is the least of our worries. Finding another Farke is a more pressing issue.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Money is the least of our worries. Finding another Farke is a more pressing issue.

We generated a lot of money in the transfer market in order to fund Farke's first promotion though, including selling Maddison for £26m.

Who are we selling for £26m?

[KeiranShikari 1,493]

Nah. 

Loads of wage coming off the bill next summer. Even if it's at a loss there's still value in Tzolis and Rashica. Sargent and Aarons will still have decent value. Then we have the next gen of young players coming through.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by KeiranShikari

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, KeiranShikari said:

Even if it's at a loss there's still value in Tzolis and Rashica. 

Have we finished paying for them though? Often transfer fees are paid over the length of the contract in instalments.

[KeiranShikari 1,493]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Have we finished paying for them though? Often transfer fees are paid over the length of the contract in instalments.

Probably not but it's not like we'd have gotten all of the Buendia money up front either. Our massive summer spend was only massive because of that outgoing transfer.

[Midlands Yellow 4,176]

10 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We generated a lot of money in the transfer market in order to fund Farke's first promotion though, including selling Maddison for £26m.

Who are we selling for £26m?

Trust Webber, remember neither Aarons or Cantwell are leaving for less than £30m. 

[Danke bitte 971]

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Money is the least of our worries. Finding another Farke is a more pressing issue.

A valid point. We need a new coach that can connect the fans back to the football on display. Farke had his weaknesses of course but to go from his personality to the passive Smith has been a massive juxtaposition for everyone. We also lack footballing identity, which is the biggest concern. I still think Farke needed to go but we opted for who was available at the time and that’s become clear as fk right now despite me giving Webber and Smith the benefit of the doubt last year. 

[kirku 1,341]

19 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We generated a lot of money in the transfer market in order to fund Farke's first promotion though, including selling Maddison for £26m.

Who are we selling for £26m?

Jordan Hugill.

Next.

[Kenny Foggo 1,122]

Saint Delia is still in charge so impossible to be in peril.. ever!

[Dr Greenthumb 756]

As soon as the club is relegated, it’s always on the brink. Delia and MJW are not fit to run a football club

[nutty nigel 7,716]

26 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Saint Delia is still in charge so impossible to be in peril.. ever!

Poor old Wynnie. 67 years at Carrow Road and no sainthood for him.  😇

[crispeduk 282]

There’s likely to be a point when the costs of keeping him outweigh those of getting rid. The money maestros on here are far better qualified to quantify this than I am and some of their calculations will inevitably be influenced by probabilities rather than hard data, but I suspect that tipping point is fast approaching if not having actually been reached. A key factor is that it is not too late to rescue the season but how long can that assessment hold good?

 

[Capt. Pants 4,356]

One of Smith's legacies will be how he has indirectly eroded the value of key assets like Aarons, Cantwell, Rashica and Tzolis.

It does look as though the new owner will have a larger loss on their hands compared to those dizzy times last May when we were getting smashed by Spurs.

[PockthorpePete 331]

I believe we will be bankrupt by Xmas. We cannot continue with this £100m overdraft and a wage bill of £150m per annum. The OP is right to raise this, and should not be regarded as a scaremongering toill.  The board has put out the case that we are in financial trouble, not as a means to reduce expectation among fans but to avoid clubs thinking it is time to fill their boots if we come a calling. We should all be grateful that we jave such knowledgable posters, and perhaps remember the club we had before it's imminent collapse.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

I believe we will be bankrupt by Xmas. We cannot continue with this £100m overdraft and a wage bill of £150m per annum. The OP is right to raise this, and should not be regarded as a scaremongering toill.  The board has put out the case that we are in financial trouble, not as a means to reduce expectation among fans but to avoid clubs thinking it is time to fill their boots if we come a calling. We should all be grateful that we jave such knowledgable posters, and perhaps remember the club we had before it's imminent collapse.

Well at this least "toill" can spell knowledgeable.

[wcorkcanary 4,364]

@TeemuVanBasten.... shall  pay my €50 to the Club rather than Nuttyos Funds when Todd is eventually let go for less than 20 mill incl add-ons? I fear  they need it more😂. Better still lets put Nuttyo in charge of Club finances..

 Every penny would hit the target, no waste. 

Or will i buy Dean Smith a one way ticket back to brum?

TBF Nuttyos Funds will give best value for money, as there are plenty of people willing to drive DS home.   

[wcorkcanary 4,364]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well at this least "toill" can spell knowledgeable.

And   ' have'... thats a tricky one. 

[Naturalcynic 696]

12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Money is the least of our worries. Finding another Farke is a more pressing issue.

No, we need someone who’s not only capable of getting us promoted but who can actually keep us in the Prem rather than making us a laughing stock.

[lake district canary 4,586]

26 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

No, we need someone who’s not only capable of getting us promoted but who can actually keep us in the Prem rather than making us a laughing stock.

Right now I'd settle for someone who can get us playing good winning football that gets us promoted. One thing at a time.

[essex canary 523]

13 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Surely not. We still have parachute money next season.

Of the parachute money this season, £21 million around half of it is pledged to pay back the loan, there is a net £9 million to pay in relation to transfer instalments accounting for around 20% and the remainder has probably been used up on high wages for the first half of the season.

We need to learn to live on a £30 million a year salary budget now. Rachica is probably not the only cut price offload.

[CirclePoint 206]

Funny thing is, and as painful as it will be for the fans to experience, this could be the beginning of the Attanasio era.

If we fail to go back up and we're forced to sell our players to survive financially, leaving us to toil in mid-table championship mediocrity, our stock will go down. In this case, Attanasio may find himself in a position to buy out Delia & Co sooner and for considerably less than he may have been planning to.

NOTE: I assume that Mark Attanasio intends to buy into the club to eventually own it outright.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 17/12/2022 at 23:23, keelansgrandad said:

Surely not. We still have parachute money next season.

See...

6 hours ago, Petriix said:

As I understand it, we've taken out a ~ £60m loan tied to guaranteed future income (i.e. our remaining parachute payments and installments due on player sales). We will have the money to pay this off, but we've basically already spent everything we've got coming in.

The implication of this is we need to be absolutely balancing the books next year excluding parachute payments (which we've already spent). That means slashing the wage budget down from what is likely around £50m to something like £20m. The actual figures will emerge after future accounts are released.

In practice it means we need to sell players to break even, but we'll probably be offloading our best players. Pukki will leave on a free and a bunch of other players will be released. We'll be hoping to recoup some money on Rashica and Tzolis. 

Basically if you (like me) think the current squad is a little on the weak side you're not going to be ecstatic with who turns out for the first game next season. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

15 hours ago, PockthorpePete said:

I believe we will be bankrupt by Xmas. We cannot continue with this £100m overdraft and a wage bill of £150m per annum. The OP is right to raise this, and should not be regarded as a scaremongering toill.  The board has put out the case that we are in financial trouble, not as a means to reduce expectation among fans but to avoid clubs thinking it is time to fill their boots if we come a calling. We should all be grateful that we jave such knowledgable posters, and perhaps remember the club we had before it's imminent collapse.

In the meantime, you could get your fingers out of ears and stop chanting "la la la la la" and actually attempt to use your brain, start by reading...

13 hours ago, essex canary said:

Of the parachute money this season, £21 million around half of it is pledged to pay back the loan, there is a net £9 million to pay in relation to transfer instalments accounting for around 20% and the remainder has probably been used up on high wages for the first half of the season.

We need to learn to live on a £30 million a year salary budget now. Rachica is probably not the only cut price offload.

6 hours ago, Petriix said:

As I understand it, we've taken out a ~ £60m loan tied to guaranteed future income (i.e. our remaining parachute payments and installments due on player sales). We will have the money to pay this off, but we've basically already spent everything we've got coming in.

The implication of this is we need to be absolutely balancing the books next year excluding parachute payments (which we've already spent). That means slashing the wage budget down from what is likely around £50m to something like £20m. The actual figures will emerge after future accounts are released.

In practice it means we need to sell players to break even, but we'll probably be offloading our best players. Pukki will leave on a free and a bunch of other players will be released. We'll be hoping to recoup some money on Rashica and Tzolis. 

Basically if you (like me) think the current squad is a little on the weak side you're not going to be ecstatic with who turns out for the first game next season. 

[shefcanary 2,532]

The accounts basically spelt out that all our parachute payments are earmarked to pay off the £65m of loans Webber has used to **** up the wall. Richens explained that any transfer dealings (and, my assumption, compensation outside normal salary budgets e.g. managerial sackings) has to be funded by new transfer income and / or drastic revenue cost reduction elsewhere. Given the accounts were signed off only 6 weeks ago the financial situation should not have changed substantially.

But, all this is predicated on financial forecasts which assume a relatively steady, but prudent, trading position. This will include assumptions about numbers of season ticket sales being maintained at previous years levels, albeit with what are termed sensitivities run of them decreasing by 5 or 10% say. These sensitivities show what level of cost reduction might be needed to balance budgets should season ticket sales fall. This would have seemed a distant reality 2 to 3 months ago, but each home match we currently play brings the likelihood of this ever closer.

Smith's post match comments after Blackburn will mean there will be some serious number crunching by Richens financial forecast team this morning. Once these are delivered to the Executive team, I expect to see some action after Xmas!