Mark Attanasio

[Ren 75]

27 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I will need to read it carefully to understand why it is in our interests as minority shareholders. Let's hope the explanation is good and that they will respond to questions to the extent that it isn't.

I agree.  I have some shares id offload at the prices being banded around.  Does this agreement mean that MA is not allowed to offer to buy anymore for three years?  Surely this goes against market rules? 

[shefcanary 2,468]

1 hour ago, Year of the tiger said:

Perhaps Iam being thick but what price is Attansio paying per share for the 194000 shares. 

A loan made to the club of $6m is being converted into the new shares. The value per sharei s thus £25, the price paid by most shareholders historically and thus unchanged since 2004! The £25 per share is what Attanasio paid Foluger as well, so Foluger indeed only received c.£3m. This share price values the club at c.£25m. The interest on that loan had been at 11% as well.

Attanasio is foregoing immediate control of the club for 3 years, but his involvement is at a very low price to compensate. Quite a deal. Well done that man, perhaps amongst his peers, but unless we see so e form of cash injection from 2026 onward there is only one winner here. Delia and Mike said that did not want to be seen to profit from their ownership, well they've certainly achieved that.

And nephew Tom as an independent director? With an Executive Director being the other independent director despite the fact she is paid £525k p.a. by the club with a 4.1% annual bonus for the club just retaining their EFL status.

If I were Essex, I'd keel over now! 

Great read though!

Edited September 4, 2023 by shefcanary
Do see my post below; the above is a gut reaction to the information in the circular documents. Over the next few weeks I will reflect further.

[essex canary 508]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

A loan made to the club of $6m is being converted into the new shares. The value per sharei s thus £25, the price paid by most shareholders historically and thus unchanged since 2004! The £25 per share is what Attanasio paid Foluger as well, so Foluger indeed only received c.£3m. This share price values the club at c.£25m. The interest on that loan had been at 11% as well.

Attanasio is foregoing immediate control of the club for 3 years, but his involvement is at a very low price to compensate. Quite a deal. Well done that man, perhaps amongst his peers, but unless we see so e form of cash injection from 2026 onward there is only one winner here. Delia and Mike said that did not want to be seen to profit from their ownership, well they've certainly achieved that.

And nephew Tom as an independent director? With an Executive Director being the other independent director despite the fact she is paid £525k p.a. by the club with a 4.1% annual bonus for the club just retaining their EFL status.

If I were Essex, I'd keel over now! 

Great read though!

I'm still here. Great post. Well nailed especially that paragraph about independent directors.

The only issue I would take up is surely Zoe is the second winner and as for Tom I guess he will be looking to come through on the coat tails further down the line.

[Year of the tiger 59]

Thank you Sheffield. In the mean time I had found a figure of £4,862,800 in the term sheet which divided by 194,512 does give a price of £25. Seems very cheap to me, plus I wish I could get 11% on my meagre savings

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Year of the tiger
Clarity

[shefcanary 2,468]

The above was my gut reaction to skim reading all the documents. I think there is enough information in them to feed this thread for years to come.

I may change my opinion in due course, but in retaining control for a further 3 years, it does strike me that Smith & Jones (and indeed Foulger) have presented the club on a silver platter to Attanasio without benefitting things substantially on the field of play.

We have to hope that Attanasio's team start effecting all manner of things behind the scenes to see any real leap forward. But come February 2026, then the real change starts! I'm setting my alarm clock now.

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

17 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

A loan made to the club of $6m is being converted into the new shares. The value per sharei s thus £25, the price paid by most shareholders historically and thus unchanged since 2004! The £25 per share is what Attanasio paid Foluger as well, so Foluger indeed only received c.£3m. This share price values the club at c.£25m. The interest on that loan had been at 11% as well.

Attanasio is foregoing immediate control of the club for 3 years, but his involvement is at a very low price to compensate. Quite a deal. Well done that man, perhaps amongst his peers, but unless we see so e form of cash injection from 2026 onward there is only one winner here. Delia and Mike said that did not want to be seen to profit from their ownership, well they've certainly achieved that.

And nephew Tom as an independent director? With an Executive Director being the other independent director despite the fact she is paid £525k p.a. by the club with a 4.1% annual bonus for the club just retaining their EFL status.

If I were Essex, I'd keel over now! 

Great read though!

Thanks, shef. I have made some play over the waiver, and there certainly is a moral argument that shareholders should vote against on principle. But the reality is that with such a low price there is generally going to be little or no profit, and so those in charge of the mini-corporate holdings that probably still exist (RG Carter with 7,500 perhaps) may not much care that they cannot sell out to Attanasio.

[Bert 236]

So what does this value the overall club at and how does this compare to other clubs of a similar size? 

[essex canary 508]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks, shef. I have made some play over the waiver, and there certainly is a moral argument that shareholders should vote against on principle. But the reality is that with such a low price there is generally going to be little or no profit, and so those in charge of the mini-corporate holdings that probably still exist (RG Carter with 7,500 perhaps) may not much care that they cannot sell out to Attanasio.

Maybe but Pleasure and Leisure took their money at £30 per share. The ADs who hold 1,000 each as private individuals and around 30,000 in total could have offered the independent opinion. As numerous of them are multi-millionaires perhaps some of them don't care either. Those who get shafted are those that do and with 250 times the typical holding will not have any extra voting weight.

[shefcanary 2,468]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks, shef. I have made some play over the waiver, and there certainly is a moral argument that shareholders should vote against on principle. But the reality is that with such a low price there is generally going to be little or no profit, and so those in charge of the mini-corporate holdings that probably still exist (RG Carter with 7,500 perhaps) may not much care that they cannot sell out to Attanasio.

Yes, the waiver being potentially allowed by the TP (subject to the vote) must be based on other discussions they have had with the parties - as an accountant I am struggling with the terms involved, especially with some transactions being at EIGHT times the price here! 

I am also intrigued about the new loans discussed in the documents. Two new loans have been made by the Norfolk Group (the membership which is discussed is also something to unpick in time), the one which is now being used as the share allotment consideration I can't figure out if it was needed as a further sign of good intent or that cashflow was creaking again (its was made just in advance of a transfer window which may give a clue). 

Plenty to pick over and plenty to disagree about as well. Lots of information shared, but it only tells one quarter of the story, although it answers a fair number of questions and proves I was way off on some areas.

At least you called the underlying strategy right! I congratulate you sir, that tropical island is doing wonders for your corporate knowledge and  understanding. 

[shefcanary 2,468]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

So what does this value the overall club at and how does this compare to other clubs of a similar size? 

It values the club around £25m. Way lower than the recent valuation of £150m that the owner of Sheffield United is seeking for his shares, and the £100m that Burnley was valued at.

There are reasons for this of course, as Attanasio does not get complete control of the club for a number of years, but with other share transactions detailed within the documentation at £200 per share valuing the club at over £200m, you can see this deal is remarkably good for Attanasio as of today.

[Canary Pie 25]

from a non shareholder perspective it looks like a no brainer to vote in favour of this. MA is a very experienced professional investor and will be looking to increase the value of the club substantially over the next 5 to 10 years. Being an investor along side is almost certainly going to result in a decent gain in the medium to long term. 

[Year of the tiger 59]

Hi Sheffield, can you point me to the £200 share transactions in the documentation you mention. Thanks (my septuagenarian brain is trying to keep up)

[Soldier on 168]

24 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

It values the club around £25m. Way lower than the recent valuation of £150m that the owner of Sheffield United is seeking for his shares, and the £100m that Burnley was valued at.

There are reasons for this of course, as Attanasio does not get complete control of the club for a number of years, but with other share transactions detailed within the documentation at £200 per share valuing the club at over £200m, you can see this deal is remarkably good for Attanasio as of today.

Is this part of an over arching strategy / commitment to invest in other ways ?

Feels like a commitment to improve Carrow Road may form part of the equate re the favourable terms offered.

Perhaps we will hear more from the key players in due course.

 

[shefcanary 2,468]

8 minutes ago, Year of the tiger said:

Hi Sheffield, can you point me to the £200 share transactions in the documentation you mention. Thanks (my septuagenarian brain is trying to keep up)

Section 5 Matched Bargains, page 21 &22 of the Circular document details all registered share transactions over the past 6 months. Obviously not all were at £200, but does indicate what some people feel is a reasonable price.

[king canary 7,680]

13 minutes ago, Canary Pie said:

from a non shareholder perspective it looks like a no brainer to vote in favour of this. MA is a very experienced professional investor and will be looking to increase the value of the club substantially over the next 5 to 10 years. Being an investor along side is almost certainly going to result in a decent gain in the medium to long term. 

I think it depends if you look at the shares as something you bought to help/own a part of the club (which I imagine most did) or if you bought them with an eye on a return. 

[shefcanary 2,468]

2 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Is this part of an over arching strategy / commitment to invest in other ways ?

Feels like a commitment to improve Carrow Road may form part of the equate re the favourable terms offered.

Perhaps we will hear more from the key players in due course.

 

You would have to believe the TP were party to some other documentation over future strategy, otherwise I struggle to see why they have agreed to the waiver on the basis of what is presented in the circular. There is a lot unsaid. It does not rule out on February 2026 Attanasio not offering to buy out some of the other (less than 20% of shares) shareholders at a higher price.

There is no detail of any future investment from the Norfolk Group, but presumably there are plans to increase capacity / add to the range of activity that can happen at and around the stadium.  It is to be hoped, as it didn't happen after the February 23 GM as promised in the paperwork fir that meeting, we will hear more of this if the Waiver is passed at the October meeting. If not on that day, at least at the AGM in November / December!

[essex canary 508]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

 

And nephew Tom as an independent director? With an Executive Director being the other independent director despite the fact she is paid £525k p.a. by the club with a 4.1% annual bonus for the club just retaining their EFL status.

I

Do you mean that she gets an annual bonus as long as we remain above National League level?

[Mello Yello 2,303]

I really do hope that all the currently involved Carrow Road parties come to a peaceful compromise and an acceptable solution and conclusion?.....

This is our Club Matriarch addressing the North American NCFC Board member and shareholder....concerning Club Carra train-set.... 

"Right then you ther Yankee bloke it's like this....You can have/own 35% of the redundant bits of the track layout, plus that crumbling model stone bridge, a broken windmill, that model sunken rudderless river ferry and that rather dull lookin' field full of boring plastic cows....We're not thrifty so we'll also throw in that delightful row of slightly damaged model white thatched cottages and that pretty naff lookin' wooden copse of trees....We wish to be very fair so you can also have the figurine of the toy postie on his pushbike...and you can also have that flaky painty 3 legged unwanted sheep dog as well as that useless cracked gateless level crossing"....

"Oh I nearly forgot Yankster....do you see that farmyard full of toy chickens? Well they were Micky Foulger's but he said you can have 'em for a fistful of Dollars....or For a few Dollars more"....

"Right then that's you sorted....now what about my hubster Michael and I?"....

"So then as the majority shareholders we'll have 65% of the working remaining track, plus the train-sets 230-240 volt plug, its power transformer, the complete model train station, all the toy locomotives, signals, turntables, buildings and model restaurant and factories etc....including all the pristine passenger carriages and the guard's vans....an' stuff"...

"Oh actually, as I reiterate that we're majority shareholders, we'll also keep the complete collection of toy railway rolling stock. We will also retain the huge table this superb train set layout is currently displayed on - as well as the tunnels and all the other toy figurines whether they be passengers, plastic animals (apart from them cows) or ickle figures of local folk going about their business....Yep they're all ours....Our Neppers Tom (coz he really likes playing with them) will have complete control over all them model layout toy cars, the model lorries an' trucks, that combine harvester and also the 4 toy tractors and their trailers....including Tom's real favourite's, the little model camera stall and the coffee shop (our ickle cherub absolutely adores cameras an' coffee) that both sit quaintly in the layout's model village centre....

"Our Neppers Tom will also be the sole guardian of the key to the huge padlock for that bespoke tamper proof metal box that securely covers that wall mounted plug and the power on/off switch for the model rail layout set"....

"So then Kapitan Americano if you want to on occasion have a ickle play with it....please be nice as you must give at least 48 hours advance notice of wanting access to play with the Club Carra train set... Our darlin' young Neppers is very protective of this impressive layout....he feels it's an important and very serious role and responsibility for him - as there's not much else for him to do around here....A small fee of £80.00 for 30 mins play on the train set is payable to Tom to cover the club's electrical bill"...."If Tom's present whilst you play with the Club Carra train set, you must allow Neppers to operate the points and for him to shout out randomly 'Choo Choo!' and 'Whoo Whoo!' as the toy locomotives power around the track layout....Tom may also shout 'Nee Naw! Nee Naw! if he's having serious fun playing with the model layout emergency vehicles".....

"Right then basebally bloke an' fellow shareholding board member an' most welcomed club associate from across the pond....You just put your goddamn moniker right there on this here piece of official parchment, but only if you're happy with what we feel are wholly fair and acceptable arrangements concerning this here impressive lovely Club Carra train set?".... "Oh and actually, we'd much prefer it if you used your own pen an' ink...as y'know, times are really tight."....

"Oh and Mr Yankee doodle dandy, just as an ickle footnote...Can you see that impressive but bijou model football ground (of which me an' Michael have full ownership of) that sits centrally on the train-set layout table? Well you see it is requiring a new an' bigger model stand....Unfortunately myself an' Michael haven't got any disposable wonga....but if you wish to buy a new bigger stand for our Club Carra train-set model soccer stadium, then please feel free to do so as we certainly won't hold you back....but on one condition.... that it's named 'The Club Saviour's Delia and Michael Model Stand'.... Ok?"...."You see you may have a few bits of the Club Carra train set...but the majority of it is still me an' my hubster Mick's....

"So then Bazooka Joe just you be thankful an' fortunate we let you occasionally have a play on it....as we still control the power"....

"Now Mr Budnontheweiser....are yer gonna sign this official parchment or what?".....

 

[norfolkngood 1,092]

Maybe James dyson ( cromer born ) can throw a spanner in the works and buy the club outright 

 

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

31 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Maybe James dyson ( cromer born ) can throw a spanner in the works and buy the club outright 

 

If he did he would try and move us to the Singapore league.

 

[hogesar 9,765]

Pardon my ignorance but is this as much evidence as we've had to date (note I say evidence, not things said) that Delia & Michael are not looking to make any sort of significant money on the club for themselves? Can it stop pathetic posts from @Jim Smith calling our owners selfish? 🙂 

From my basic overview reading, that seems to be the case. And of course, Attanassio getting to 40% must therefore be something Delia & Michael are also happy with? I.e can some of the pathetic "train set" nonsense be knocked on the head at last?

[nutty nigel 7,645]

Our club is owned and always has been owned by it's supporters. The haste some wish to see it become owned on another continent is surprising. Especially given many clubs who are owned on another continent have fans who now want that ownership back.

[hogesar 9,765]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Our club is owned and always has been owned by it's supporters. The haste some wish to see it become owned on another continent is surprising. Especially given many clubs who are owned on another continent have fans who now want that ownership back.

I'll admit to not having read everything but on paper it looks a fantastic deal for Attannassio, and not for Delia and Michael. That should tell you where each individuals respective feelings and intentions are placed - obviously surmising and perhaps unfairly.

[essex canary 508]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Pardon my ignorance but is this as much evidence as we've had to date (note I say evidence, not things said) that Delia & Michael are not looking to make any sort of significant money on the club for themselves? Can it stop pathetic posts from @Jim Smith calling our owners selfish? 🙂 

 

Does that entitle them to impose their own deficient view of the rules of economics on their fellow shareholders aided by so called Independent Directors who can't be clearly seen as independent?   

[hogesar 9,765]

3 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Does that entitle them to impose their own deficient view of the rules of economics on their fellow shareholders aided by so called Independent Directors who can't be clearly seen as independent?   

There's a vote...do you trust everyone else to be as selfish as you, or? 

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

From July;

And what of her own stewardship? In September last year, Norwich broke the taboo and brought in overseas investment. Mark Attanasio, an American fund manager and owner of the Milwaukee Brewers baseball team, took a stake in the club and now sits on the board. Is he the heir apparent? “At the moment we don’t know. He seems like a really good guy. We have no idea what the future will bring. We just have to wait and see. What we have to do now is hand over to people we think will be good caretakers. Football is full of terrible disasters. We won’t have a disaster. We’ll do it properly.”

He's got three years to show Delia & Michael that he can be a good guy and not be a disaster. That seems fair.

Edited September 4, 2023 by A Load of Squit

[shefcanary 2,468]

Reflecting on Attanasio's total cash injection so far of c.£50m (albeit more than half is in the form of a loan), he could argue his 40% stake thus values the club at £125m, which would seem about right.

It is to be hoped the loan notes are a revolving facility that enables the club to develop further off the pitch, as we are all aware he does not over indulge in on field investment.

[Soldier on 168]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

From July;

And what of her own stewardship? In September last year, Norwich broke the taboo and brought in overseas investment. Mark Attanasio, an American fund manager and owner of the Milwaukee Brewers baseball team, took a stake in the club and now sits on the board. Is he the heir apparent? “At the moment we don’t know. He seems like a really good guy. We have no idea what the future will bring. We just have to wait and see. What we have to do now is hand over to people we think will be good caretakers. Football is full of terrible disasters. We won’t have a disaster. We’ll do it properly.”

He's got three years to show Delia & Michael that he can be a good guy and not be a disaster.

Difficult to stop him at that point though regardless ? Given he  will be a parity owner. In some respects the decision has already been taken that he is a suitable caretaker .

[Indy 3,323]

Very good deal for MA and makes the current ownership look good in light of not making an obscene profit from the sale!

It’s pretty much the value that was bounded at Foulger sale and for me the value of the club as it stands! It’s all well and good trying to value the club against the likes of others but as I’ve always said I hope fans like me never bought the shares to make money on more to help the club we all love!

Thanks Sheffield & others on some great info appreciated. Good place to be raising more funds to shore up the next three years and then we hope a smooth transition to the next ownership.
 

But for now I hope the club becomes more dynamic at board room level with an injection of youth on the board and fresh continues improvement in all areas on the pitch, off the pitch and the stadium.

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

15 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Does that entitle them to impose their own deficient view of the rules of economics on their fellow shareholders aided by so called Independent Directors who can't be clearly seen as independent?   

You are making too much of this notion of the "independent directors". As I read it this is a technical term to differentiate them from S&J and Attanasio who are deemed to be integral parts of the transaction, and so, for example, cannot vote on the waiver.