Dean's Myth

[Petriix 3,222]

It seems that our increasingly unpopular head coach likes to put an alternative spin on our games. Each time we lose there's a somewhat fantasy based response about how we actually deserved to win according to the statistics or the referee was actually Vladimir Putin or Kenny McLean's MD 2020 was spiked with testosterone at half time etc.

Well, I think it's time we started calling out these delusions. Let's call them Dean's Myths and keep a record of them here in this thread.

[canarydan23 4,770]

He had a discreet dig at the fans chanting "Sort it out" mentioning that we were down to 10 men at that point.

That's boll*cks. The Snakepit started that change right after the goal. Once we were down to 10 men the fans started to be supportive again.

[Google Bot 3,936]

When asked about Isaac Hayden being injured a few weeks back, He told reporters he was back on the grass..  Such a low remark to make, excuses.

SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

When asked about Isaac Hayden being injured a few weeks back, He told reporters he was back on the grass

 

[canarybubbles 2,200]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

When asked about Isaac Hayden being injured a few weeks back, He told reporters he was back on the grass..  Such a low remark to make, excuses.

SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

I'm sorry if I'm being dumb, but I don't understand this post.

[hogesar 10,774]

2 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

He had a discreet dig at the fans chanting "Sort it out" mentioning that we were down to 10 men at that point.

That's boll*cks. The Snakepit started that change right after the goal. Once we were down to 10 men the fans started to be supportive again.

To be fair he did correct Paddy who claimed "one or two" chanted and said it was plenty more.

He did also say that the fans gave the team support in second half.

Plenty to criticise but I think you're looking too much into this one.

[corbs 147]

I’ve generally been ok with Shakey 1’s post match comments, as I was with Daniel’s too. Very surprised to hear TNC Reevo saying Deano has more humility than Farke. I for one have had humility up to my neck, I never saw Daniel as arrogant, but if we occasionally were then ‘great’, most of my time following us we have been too deferential. 

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

We won xG and that it has any value whatsoever to a game of football

[Branston Pickle 4,152]

5 hours ago, Petriix said:

It seems that our increasingly unpopular head coach likes to put an alternative spin on our games. Each time we lose there's a somewhat fantasy based response about how we actually deserved to win according to the statistics or the referee was actually Vladimir Putin or Kenny McLean's MD 2020 was spiked with testosterone at half time etc.

Well, I think it's time we started calling out these delusions. Let's call them Dean's Myths and keep a record of them here in this thread.

It’s no different to the negative spin some seemed to need to out on games when we won. You didn’t seem to mind those…

Edited October 20, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Petriix 3,222]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s no different to the negative spin some seemed to need to out on games when we won. You didn’t seem to mind those…

I wouldn't have minded hearing Dean Smith come out with an honest appraisal of how things weren't quite clicking and how he planned to address the issues. I'm relatively happy to ignore the random opinions of fans on a forum because they're not actually responsible for picking the team or tactics etc.. 

[Google Bot 3,936]

3 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

I'm sorry if I'm being dumb, but I don't understand this post.

Then let me explain...

This thread could be easily intrepreted as leading a witch hunt for Smith.  (Which i'm not against)

So I provided a light hearted example in that when Hayden was back "on the grass" (meaning trainining/working on the pitch again), I was making it sound that Smith was implying Hayden is back on drugs, and therefore part of the collusion against us winning games under his tenure.

The "shame!" reference and gif is from Game of thrones where the queen is stripped naked and shamed in the most extreme and embarassing way... i.e. The suggestion being that Smith should be hunted out, stripped and paraded through the city streets like the witch he is, for a remark which I had mis-interpreted.

Now was that so hard to understand?! 🙂

[Google Bot 3,936]

Waitaminute... Did @Petriixrealise the pun with the title "Deans myth"?  If so, that's bloody genius... Well done.

[canarybubbles 2,200]

7 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Then let me explain...

This thread could be easily intrepreted as leading a witch hunt for Smith.  (Which i'm not against)

So I provided a light hearted example in that when Hayden was back "on the grass" (meaning trainining/working on the pitch again), I was making it sound that Smith was implying Hayden is back on drugs, and therefore part of the collusion against us winning games under his tenure.

The "shame!" reference and gif is from Game of thrones where the queen is stripped naked and shamed in the most extreme and embarassing way... i.e. The suggestion being that Smith should be hunted out, stripped and paraded through the city streets like the witch he is, for a remark which I had mis-interpreted.

Now was that so hard to understand?! 🙂

Thanks. I picked up the ambiguity of 'on the grass', but I've never seen Game of Thrones, which didn't help.

[dylanisabaddog 6,149]

12 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Then let me explain...

This thread could be easily intrepreted as leading a witch hunt for Smith.  (Which i'm not against)

So I provided a light hearted example in that when Hayden was back "on the grass" (meaning trainining/working on the pitch again), I was making it sound that Smith was implying Hayden is back on drugs, and therefore part of the collusion against us winning games under his tenure.

The "shame!" reference and gif is from Game of thrones where the queen is stripped naked and shamed in the most extreme and embarassing way... i.e. The suggestion being that Smith should be hunted out, stripped and paraded through the city streets like the witch he is, for a remark which I had mis-interpreted.

Now was that so hard to understand?! 🙂

Well, yes it is hard to understand actually..... 

[TheGunnShow 7,379]

12 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Waitaminute... Did @Petriixrealise the pun with the title "Deans myth"?  If so, that's bloody genius... Well done.

We could have some fun there. I suggest Chris Rea rejigs the lyrics and mentions the Roeder Hell.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Do you get the fan frustration?

I totally understand frustrations at the end of the game, when you've got beat and you haven't deserved to get beat and controlled major parts of the game. I'd be frustrated if I'm a supporter because you you want to see your team win the game, and it's a game that we should have won.

So against Luton we should have won and didn't deserve to get beat.

Yeah yeah yeah whatever.

[hogesar 10,774]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Do you get the fan frustration?

I totally understand frustrations at the end of the game, when you've got beat and you haven't deserved to get beat and controlled major parts of the game. I'd be frustrated if I'm a supporter because you you want to see your team win the game, and it's a game that we should have won.

So against Luton we should have won and didn't deserve to get beat.

Yeah yeah yeah whatever.

I don't think we deserved to win by any stretch but I'd agree a draw would have been a fair result.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I don't think we deserved to win by any stretch but I'd agree a draw would have been a fair result.

Well the head coach at this mornings presser is saying that we should have won hoggy so it appears he was watching a different game.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

3 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Do you get the fan frustration?

I totally understand frustrations at the end of the game, when you've got beat and you haven't deserved to get beat and controlled major parts of the game. I'd be frustrated if I'm a supporter because you you want to see your team win the game, and it's a game that we should have won.

So against Luton we should have won and didn't deserve to get beat.

Yeah yeah yeah whatever.

We managed one shot on target, and that was a snapshot from outside the box after a lucky deflection off a Luton player.

Most of the shots off target were speculative; Pukki had a decent chance in each half and you'd have expected him to hit the target at least once. But over 90 minutes I don't understand how he can say we deserved to win that match, we created next to nothing!

 

[Google Bot 3,936]

32 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Yeah yeah yeah whatever.

I think Dean is one of those guys you see at the fair claiming that he would've won the prize if he had a 4th ball.

[Clint 221]

I may be wrong but I thought after the match the other night he said we should’ve beaten Watford, today he says we deserved to lose? 
 

Also, I wouldn’t class having loads of keep ball in our own half and endless amounts of backwards and sideways passing as ‘dominating games’. Yes it’s more possession but unless that leads to something more productive than one shot on target all match, I wouldn’t call it domination. I can think of plenty of less savoury and far more accurate ways to describe it! 

He’s lost the plot.

 

 

[Google Bot 3,936]

Nice one after the Brentford loss: 

"We can probably look at xG afterwards and Brentford will get 1.8 for two penalties",  "I think we would probably head that table if you take penalties away from the game"

If someone could have a word with the xG guys please?

[chicken 3,088]

On 20/10/2022 at 21:59, Petriix said:

I wouldn't have minded hearing Dean Smith come out with an honest appraisal of how things weren't quite clicking and how he planned to address the issues. I'm relatively happy to ignore the random opinions of fans on a forum because they're not actually responsible for picking the team or tactics etc.. 

I felt he was what is called 'being defensive' - which suggests he cares, and is trying to protect his players and directing it at himself. Willingly or not, that's a questions.

However, suggestion is he isn't honest in his appraisals... 

Fairly honest here. Pretty scathing in fact, just without the angst in his voice. Which, IMHO, is the right way to deliver it unlike a certain Colin W*nker.

Again, Vs Preston...

Honest, open, fairly hefty on the "not good enough" vibe.

And as for Luton:

Fairly honest there too. "Final ball let us down", "not creative enough in final third". Though it may annoy that he feels we had better control of the game on the whole. In fairness, I think that is fairly accurate. We have struggled to break down teams that haven't come here to play open, expansive football, but to sit deep and play on the counter attack.

As he has said a couple of times in the last couple of games, that creativity and final ball is letting us down. Dare I say it, but we are missing a 2020-21 Cantwell and Buendia and quite possibly a bit of vintage Vrancic as an option too? 

 

[chicken 3,088]

11 hours ago, Clint said:

I may be wrong but I thought after the match the other night he said we should’ve beaten Watford, today he says we deserved to lose? 
 

Also, I wouldn’t class having loads of keep ball in our own half and endless amounts of backwards and sideways passing as ‘dominating games’. Yes it’s more possession but unless that leads to something more productive than one shot on target all match, I wouldn’t call it domination. I can think of plenty of less savoury and far more accurate ways to describe it! 

He’s lost the plot.

 

 

What you call it may well be different, doesn't mean either of you are right or wrong. However, you can dominate possession and do nothing with it. You can dominate games and still lose.

Dominance can be measured in different ways, in different aspects of the game. You can be dominant in possession, but not out of it, for example. He is right though, Preston didn't create masses and their goal came from a brilliant individual run from Morris. Que all of the shots on target arguments... again, you can dominate shots on target but lose to someone who has one or two.

The only dominance that actually counts for anything is on the league table. No point sitting in 7th ruing all of the missed opportunities of the dominance we had. Equally, no better than sitting in 7th and saying we played some brilliant, attractive football. Gotta be able to mix it up. Grind wins out and find ways to break down/unlock teams that are well organised.

Well organised is often what this division is about. We were promoted under Worthington after having a couple of seasons of the meanest defence and adding Huckerby and other attacking threats to bang in the goals off the back of that solid base. We had some real battlers in that side who weren't the best footballers so to speak - two were Scottish. What we'd do now for a Gary Holt in CM.

[Branston Pickle 4,152]

12 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

We managed one shot on target, and that was a snapshot from outside the box after a lucky deflection off a Luton player.

Most of the shots off target were speculative; Pukki had a decent chance in each half and you'd have expected him to hit the target at least once. But over 90 minutes I don't understand how he can say we deserved to win that match, we created next to nothing!

 

So you think Luton ‘deserved’ the win on chances?  They dug in, made it hard, created very little and nicked it - that’s hardly the same thing.

Shots on target is a pretty flimsy metric, it gives absolutely no idea to the quality of the chance (and oddly enough only ever seems to be used as a negative), I think ‘total’ shots is better but can also mislead. Stats can always be used in multiple ways.  One thing for sure is that Pukki should have scored at least one goal but didn’t even put his attempts on target…that isn’t down to Smith, or even the quality of the chance, it’s purely poor finishing.. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[canarybubbles 2,200]

Yes, Pukki did miss those two chances, one of which he more or less created for himself. And yes, perhaps, he should even be moved out of that central position and replaced by Sargent. Interesting, though, that you choose to focus on that rather than Smith's bizarre opening line-up or the disjointed performance or the haphazard substitutions in the second half or the fact that we have only looked good in ten-minute stretches in a few games here and there or that the rest of our players, with the single exception of Sargent, are also going backwards as rapidly as Pukki.

It's as if Pukki has given much less to our football club over the years than Smith has.

EDIT: And BTW, I do think that Luton deserved to win it. They had a clear plan, they stuck to it, and they knew what they were doing. And for most of the match they were comfortable.

Edited October 22, 2022 by canarybubbles

[Michael Starr 571]

Dean Smith came here with a reputation of blaming other things for defeats. In particular, bad luck and ref decisions. Now we're seeing it first hand. The guy is a fraud. He barely took Villa up with a world class midfielder and possibly the strongest squad in the history of the Championship. He did fairly well with Brentford but that was down to Brentford being a progressive club at the time. He rode the wave of positive forward momentum. His win rate at Walsall wasn't overly impressive and he didn't really make any progress there during the 260 odd games he managed. In all of his roles, he lost almost as many games as he won. 

We need a coach who will give us identity, make us hard to beat, bring discipline back, get the most out of limited players, work on a tight budget... Sean Dyche. Proven coach at the highest level for a club of our size.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Michael Starr

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

9 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

So you think Luton ‘deserved’ the win on chances?  They dug in, made it hard, created very little and nicked it - that’s hardly the same thing.

Shots on target is a pretty flimsy metric, it gives absolutely no idea to the quality of the chance (and oddly enough only ever seems to be used as a negative), I think ‘total’ shots is better but can also mislead. Stats can always be used in multiple ways.  One thing for sure is that Pukki should have scored at least one goal but didn’t even put his attempts on target…that isn’t down to Smith, or even the quality of the chance, it’s purely poor finishing.. 

I didn't say that, I just said that we didn't deserve to win it. I think a draw would probably have been a fair result on chances.

I get what you're saying about SOT not being the most reliable metric, but in this instance I really don't think we created many chances that SHOULD have been on target. The two from Pukki are the only ones I can recall where I think we SHOULD have hit the target; on an average Pukki day, at least one of them would have tested the keeper.

Other than that, it was just speculative shots with a low probability of hitting the target, let alone scoring a goal.

[Petriix 3,222]

Look, this thread was supposed to be a light-hearted bit of fun based on a simple pun which tied in with a bit of a trend for making (often at least partially reasonable) excuses after poor results.

There's plenty of other places for well reasoned analysis and heated debate. Let's keep this one fun - and let's face it we all need some fun at the moment! 

[Mello Yello 2,573]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

Look, this thread was supposed to be a light-hearted bit of fun based on a simple pun which tied in with a bit of a trend for making (often at least partially reasonable) excuses after poor results.

There's plenty of other places for well reasoned analysis and heated debate. Let's keep this one fun - and let's face it we all need some fun at the moment! 

Don't we just....