Unofficial Reading v Norwich match thread with all the news

[NeymarSmith 133]

27 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

2nd in the table, draw away against the team in 3rd and people still moan moan moan.  Yes, we played poor. But come on, could be worse

But surely it's understandable when you consider how poor it is now, style wise (and performance wise, and yes ultimately results wise) when you consider where we.were. it's been regression dude. 

Obv comparing champ campaign to champ campaign 

[kirku 1,339]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

I can only presume yes. But there’s watching and watching.  We were not great first half, better second.

I don’t see why our goal was any more fortuitous than theirs? Players had shots on target, they went in (Krul badly messed up with theirs, but it wasn’t ‘fortuitous’, apparently).

But you are not talking about what I was - I said in the last ten we were the side looking for the winner. They weren’t, and were happy to stick with the point. Perhaps you missed that.  You clearly missed that this was what I was referring to.

Oh, so "by looking for the winner" you meant that we had the ball broadly in their half for the last 10 minutes without creating a single decent chance?

There's watching and there's watching, apparently

[Capt. Pants 4,278]

Once again the result was better than the performance but I would have taken a point before the start of the game. 

We were OK but £150m away from being a EPL team. Let's be honest it's turgid stuff but as long as we get promotion thats all that matters. If you want entertainment then this Smith side probably isn't for you.

It's a good result, we move on.

 

[Ian 1,136]

Just now, kirku said:

We got "continually dicked in the Premier League" under Smith, Ian.

What have you seen from us this season to suggest that'd change if we were to get promoted?

Nothing, other than we are clearly more pragmatic under Smith, but that wasn't your original point was it?

If you find us that boring, perhaps you would be better off firing up your Sky telly box and watching all those terrific attacking teams like Manchester City?

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I thought we did ok tonight to be honest. In fact I was more encouraged by tonight than by some of our wins. I thought we looked less open and vulnerable with that formation. We passed the ball better. We lacked threat at times as we were so slow in the final third so that’s something to work on but I have lord faith in that set up for these tough away games we have coming up than I do our set up for the Pat few games.

Clearly though we need to work on the front three of playing that formation. Ramsey is ineffective out wide and Sargent also looks way better through the middle so as may need to choose between him and Pukki for certain games. 

[Canaries north 151]

The last time we were in this division we had the joy of Buendia. A player who was so far ahead of the division it was frightening. He also had a perfect partner in Crime in Pukki. Just look at the points per game with and without Buendia to see what a difference he made. I think people just find it hard that we are not that team anymore. Smith signed Buendia and I'm sure would wish he had him now. We are grinding out results. I feel this will be what we have to do this season. We were spoilt. Not many teams have ever had a player that good in the championship. That doesn't mean we won't get promoted but we have to accept it won't be as pretty. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

Just now, kirku said:

I'm entertained by attacking possession football, which was traditionally our style. 

How would you describe our attacking gameplan today - or even under Smith in general - what patterns are we trying to create that are supposed to end up in goal scoring opportunities? How are we providing service for one of the best strikers in Championship history?

Like I said tonight was an outlier with the extremely low shots.

Blackpool was 22 shots with 8 on target.

West Bromwich 11 shots 3 on target 

Bristol 11 shots 6 on target 

Coventry 14 shots 7 on target 

Birmingham 14 shots 5 on target.

As for Pukki, I'm wondering if the obsession with service to Pukki stifles goals from elsewhere, because when Sargeant has his spell at centre forward, suddenly other players seemed to start scoring as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Branston Pickle 3,690]

14 minutes ago, markdmhoward said:

This board is so negative.

You must be new here…it’s par for the course. Under Smith if we win we were lucky, if we draw we were lucky, if we lose we got what we deserved.  You don’t even need to watch  to know this to be true.

[Nuff Said 5,178]

57 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Reading are 3rd with a minus GD, their defence is awful. 

They’re away at QPR next, who’ve just beaten Sheff Utd. Hopefully they’ll draw and we can open up a bit of a gap.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Nuff Said

[Nuff Said 5,178]

36 minutes ago, percy varco said:

We looked out of ideas. 
1 shot on target. 
No progress under Smith. He is getting away with it. 
Smith Out

 

42 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

 

There’s a lot of entitlement on this thread. Reading are one place behind us, with decent players.

 

[NeymarSmith 133]

30 minutes ago, Ian said:

I was actually less embarrassed as a Norwich fan last season than I am when I read the negative entitled rubbish on here.

Are we playing well? No, well below what we are capable of. Are there mitigating circumstances for this? Clearly the LB injuries crises and ridiculous amount of games we have played by the first week of October mean this is very unlikely to be one of those vintage seasons.

I do believe we have shown flashes of quality play, and I do believe we will improve in the second half of the season, but for now we are where we need to be.

Dreamer

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

8 minutes ago, kirku said:

We got "continually dicked in the Premier League" under Smith, Ian.

What have you seen from us this season to suggest that'd change if we were to get promoted?

We got continually dicked in the prem under Farke as well. However, Smith inherited what he inherited; now he's changing things to his own preferences as a guy who got a team to the premier League and kept them there 

[kirku 1,339]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

Nothing, other than we are clearly more pragmatic under Smith, but that wasn't your original point was it?

If you find us that boring, perhaps you would be better off firing up your Sky telly box and watching all those terrific attacking teams like Manchester City?

Interesting viewpoint. Most observers thought we looked significantly more pragmatic during Farke's second title-winning season, where we were defensively much more sound but still had the creativity and plan to get the best out of Pukki and Buendia.

I'd certainly consider that side more defensively solid than anything we've seen thus far from Smith. Or are you using pragmatism as a proxy for occasionally hitting a ball long in Sargent's vague direction? 

It's funny that you used Man City as an example of a "terrific attacking team". It wasn't long ago that Guardiola fired up his "Sky telly box" in his spare time to "watch all those terrific attacking teams like Norwich".

Somehow I don't think he's tuning in any longer...

 

[Branston Pickle 3,690]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I thought we did ok tonight to be honest. In fact I was more encouraged by tonight than by some of our wins. I thought we looked less open and vulnerable with that formation. We passed the ball better. We lacked threat at times as we were so slow in the final third so that’s something to work on but I have lord faith in that set up for these tough away games we have coming up than I do our set up for the Pat few games.

Clearly though we need to work on the front three of playing that formation. Ramsey is ineffective out wide and Sargent also looks way better through the middle so as may need to choose between him and Pukki for certain games. 

Good points. People seem to expect more and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but they seem to remember previous seasons with rose coloured spectacles.  I’ve been going to games for 40+ years and have seen some utter garbage from the boys in yellow and green, far far worse than anything our current side is.capable of.

Perhaps we could mix Josh/Teemu within the game - I’m certain Teemu has played that role before if not for us so much. 

[Ian 1,136]

9 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

But surely it's understandable when you consider how poor it is now, style wise (and performance wise, and yes ultimately results wise) when you consider where we.were. it's been regression dude. 

Obv comparing champ campaign to champ campaign 

Listen, I get it. We are all wanting to relive the halycon days where we played beautiful football under Farke, but forget some of the stormier times. Let's not forget that Farke himself faces similar criticism from a similar minority after his first season here.

I think it's very unlikely we will see a repeat of the "season of all seasons" for various reasons, but the main thing for me is that we progress as a club and we need to grind out results for that.

The fact we're barely a third of the way through the season, sitting joint top even though we have a lot of difficulties with injuries and a stupid schedule, and I really believe there is more to come.

Seems particularly harsh to judge Smith in such a ridiculously negative fashion when we are up the top and he has only been in charge in this league for a few months.

[percy varco 200]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

 

 

I am not entitled. 
I cannot take to Smith as our Manager. I do not see progress and have not changed my thoughts since last season  

p.s. I am not pineing for Farke either. 

[Ian 1,136]

9 minutes ago, Canaries north said:

The last time we were in this division we had the joy of Buendia. A player who was so far ahead of the division it was frightening. He also had a perfect partner in Crime in Pukki. Just look at the points per game with and without Buendia to see what a difference he made. I think people just find it hard that we are not that team anymore. Smith signed Buendia and I'm sure would wish he had him now. We are grinding out results. I feel this will be what we have to do this season. We were spoilt. Not many teams have ever had a player that good in the championship. That doesn't mean we won't get promoted but we have to accept it won't be as pretty. 

Very good point re: Buendia. I may be misremembering but I seem to recall we were less than sparkling under Farke when he wasn't available.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

3 minutes ago, kirku said:

Interesting viewpoint. Most observers thought we looked significantly more pragmatic during Farke's second title-winning season, where we were defensively much more sound but still had the creativity and plan to get the best out of Pukki and Buendia.

I'd certainly consider that side more defensively solid than anything we've seen thus far from Smith. Or are you using pragmatism as a proxy for occasionally hitting a ball long in Sargent's vague direction? 

It's funny that you used Man City as an example of a "terrific attacking team". It wasn't long ago that Guardiola fired up his "Sky telly box" in his spare time to "watch all those terrific attacking teams like Norwich".

Somehow I don't think he's tuning in any longer...

 

That side was never defensively solid. Our domination of the ball perhaps hid it sometimes but that defence had two or three errors a game in it and Skipp hid a few sins.

Oh for Skipp in there now. Perhaps after Christmas if he’s still not getting games at Spurs? 

 

[kirku 1,339]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We got continually dicked in the prem under Farke as well. However, Smith inherited what he inherited; now he's changing things to his own preferences as a guy who got a team to the premier League and kept them there 

Context is pretty key to this, no?

He got Villa up via the play-offs when we won the league. He had Tammy Abraham, McGinn, Grealish amongst others in that team. They then spent about £140-150m on players and relied on a VAR failure (unless I'm mistaken) to keep them in the league. 

Doesn't exactly scream coaching excellence to me.

[The Real Buh 3,481]

Just now, percy varco said:

I am not entitled. 
I cannot take to Smith as our Manager. I do not see progress and have not changed my thoughts since last season  

p.s. I am not pineing for Farke either. 

Having this opinion means you will be sent to the dungeons I'm afraid

[Jim Smith 2,339]

3 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Good points. People seem to expect more and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but they seem to remember previous seasons with rose coloured spectacles.  I’ve been going to games for 40+ years and have seen some utter garbage from the boys in yellow and green, far far worse than anything our current side is.capable of.

Perhaps we could mix Josh/Teemu within the game - I’m certain Teemu has played that role before if not for us so much. 

Farke originally wanted to play Pukki behind the striker as I recall. Played a game and a half there. 

[Ian 1,136]

5 minutes ago, kirku said:

 

Somehow I don't think he's tuning in any longer...

 

We definitely agree on this.

Can't see Pep getting hold of a dodgy Kodi box to stream the Championship games.

 

[Ian 1,136]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Having this opinion means you will be sent to the dungeons I'm afraid

Total strawman.

From what I've seen everyone agrees the football could and should be better.

However, most accept that fluency takes time, particularly when we had such a dreadful loser's mentality. I also suspect most accept that getting rid of our manager whilst joint top of the league and on a run of 7 wins from 9 undefeated games to bring in progressive hero Cooper (who has achieved precisely zero more than Smith) would be possibly the most Little Old Norwich behaviour ever exhibited.

[CDMullins 446]

5 minutes ago, Ian said:

Listen, I get it. We are all wanting to relive the halycon days where we played beautiful football under Farke, but forget some of the stormier times. Let's not forget that Farke himself faces similar criticism from a similar minority after his first season here.

I think it's very unlikely we will see a repeat of the "season of all seasons" for various reasons, but the main thing for me is that we progress as a club and we need to grind out results for that.

The fact we're barely a third of the way through the season, sitting joint top even though we have a lot of difficulties with injuries and a stupid schedule, and I really believe there is more to come.

Seems particularly harsh to judge Smith in such a ridiculously negative fashion when we are up the top and he has only been in charge in this league for a few months.

I've seen nothing in a year that shows that we are progressing.

 

 

[kirku 1,339]

9 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Like I said tonight was an outlier with the extremely low shots.

Blackpool was 22 shots with 8 on target.

West Bromwich 11 shots 3 on target 

Bristol 11 shots 6 on target 

Coventry 14 shots 7 on target 

Birmingham 14 shots 5 on target.

As for Pukki, I'm wondering if the obsession with service to Pukki stifles goals from elsewhere, because when Sargeant has his spell at centre forward, suddenly other players seemed to start scoring as well.

Yes, those may well be the stats, but I'm asking what we think our attacking gameplan is. Even on a basic level, and it's not meant to trip anyone up. I genuinely don't understand what it is we're trying to do to create regular goal scoring opportunities - do you?

I also agree that we've looked better with Sargent through the middle - but I also suspect that's because Sargent's main attributes are his work-rate and nuisance factor - which make him more effective in a system that inherently isn't built to make the most out of our most proven attacking player.

Is that something we should be building on? Is that a style of play that's likely to both get us promoted and stand us in better stead to survive in the Premier League? I can't see it myself

[TheGunnShow 6,010]

17 minutes ago, Canaries north said:

The last time we were in this division we had the joy of Buendia. A player who was so far ahead of the division it was frightening. He also had a perfect partner in Crime in Pukki. Just look at the points per game with and without Buendia to see what a difference he made. I think people just find it hard that we are not that team anymore. Smith signed Buendia and I'm sure would wish he had him now. We are grinding out results. I feel this will be what we have to do this season. We were spoilt. Not many teams have ever had a player that good in the championship. That doesn't mean we won't get promoted but we have to accept it won't be as pretty. 

Excellent shout. We didn't half c-r-a-p ourselves when he was suspended as the anguished cry was often "whurz duh creeuhdiveti, Neeyul?" as teams realised "shut Buendia down, you cut off half our attack" (They didn't often manage to do it, but we were a bit one-dimensional that way, just Buendia had a massive bag of tricks and eveni f he was marked out, it freed up another - often Stiepermann or Vrancic in Farke's first Champs-winning season, or Cantwell in his second).

Edited October 4, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[NeymarSmith 133]

7 minutes ago, Ian said:

Listen, I get it. We are all wanting to relive the halycon days where we played beautiful football under Farke, but forget some of the stormier times. Let's not forget that Farke himself faces similar criticism from a similar minority after his first season here.

I think it's very unlikely we will see a repeat of the "season of all seasons" for various reasons, but the main thing for me is that we progress as a club and we need to grind out results for that.

The fact we're barely a third of the way through the season, sitting joint top even though we have a lot of difficulties with injuries and a stupid schedule, and I really believe there is more to come.

Seems particularly harsh to judge Smith in such a ridiculously negative fashion when we are up the top and he has only been in charge in this league for a few months.

Fair points and kudos @Ian my main grind is with the performances considering where we were, perhaps entertainment level wise. 

But a good point well made sir 

[Ian 1,136]

1 minute ago, CDMullins said:

I've seen nothing in a year that shows that we are progressing.

 

 

You think a year is a reasonable amount of time to judge the progress of a yo-yo "self funding" club who have recently been relegated from the Prem?

I don't. Maybe that's why I seem to be at odds with a fair few on here tonight.

[NeymarSmith 133]

8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

That side was never defensively solid. Our domination of the ball perhaps hid it sometimes but that defence had two or three errors a game in it and Skipp hid a few sins.

Oh for Skipp in there now. Perhaps after Christmas if he’s still not getting games at Spurs? 

 

If we took the gamble of Sara with possible outlay of 12million, then knowing what Skipp was like and meant to us, should of gone all in and flat out twenty odd.

[......and Smith must score. 1,360]

28 minutes ago, Ian said:

Not sure I have ever watched Norwich and not found it entertaining, even when we were languishing in the bottom reaches of the Championship.

Came close to it last season, but Norwich are my team so will always watch and support with interest.

If you think Norwich were even close to entertaining last season all I can say is you're easily pleased