Liverpool fans again

[hertfordyellow 460]

5 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Stereotyping Liverpool fans makes you look very silly. You're making the same mistake that was made after Hillsborough.

 

How many years have you lived in Liverpool? I have for four years. The Hillsborough defence is meant to cower people into not question Liverpool fans, it in itself is a childish ploy. 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

Always the victim. Never the perpetrator.

 

Compensation claims incoming.

[The Real Buh 3,477]

47 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

The French police have history though. Could be worth getting the facts before judging.I realise that for some that would mean changing the habit of a lifetime.

Stop sucking up to Liverpool when they do this again and again it makes you look like a mug

they’ll still rob you if you suck up to them you know

[Herman 9,819]

 

[Virtual reality 716]

A long thread by Rob Draper explaining it from his perspective in the crowd. I appreciate this won’t sit well with the “it’s Liverpool fans again ain’t it” narrative…

 

[Mason 47 1,391]

Probably some truth to both sides, but if there's one group of people that you would class as odds-on to causes trouble on a foreign excursion it's English football fans. Then if you were to say which of those likely lads was the most likely- it's definitely Liverpool fans.

 

 

[The Real Buh 3,477]

1 minute ago, Mason 47 said:

Probably some truth to both sides, but if there's one group of people that you would class as odds-on to causes trouble on a foreign excursion it's English football fans. Then if you were to say which of those likely lads was the most likely- it's definitely Liverpool fans.

 

 

Scouse, not English 

they are the ones trapped in a timewarp

just look at the state of their city

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Le French have a Police Force with a no-nonsense reputation and are very different to our current British Police Service...

 

[Badger 2,408]

11 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

A long thread by Rob Draper explaining it from his perspective in the crowd. I appreciate this won’t sit well with the “it’s Liverpool fans again ain’t it” narrative…

 

Perhaps some of the "commentators" should read this? I'm sure they won't, unfortunately, as they feel that they are blessed with total understanding without any information, on this and all other matters! 🥴

[hertfordyellow 460]

5 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

A long thread by Rob Draper explaining it from his perspective in the crowd. I appreciate this won’t sit well with the “it’s Liverpool fans again ain’t it” narrative…

 

And yet you are willing to go with the narrative that foreign police tear gas people for no reason.

[The Real Buh 3,477]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

Perhaps some of the "commentators" should read this? I'm sure they won't, unfortunately, as they feel that they are blessed with total understanding without any information, on this and all other matters! 🥴

Believe everything you read do you?

my opinions based on irrefutable track record that wasn’t their fault of course.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Did some of the French Police's Pepper Spray also manage to seep into the Stadium after the Full-time whistle went? It looked like some of the Red's players eyes were streaming from its effects?....... 

[Herman 9,819]

18 minutes ago, Badger said:

Perhaps some of the "commentators" should read this? I'm sure they won't, unfortunately, as they feel that they are blessed with total understanding without any information, on this and all other matters! 🥴

Of course they won't. Feet first, preconceived bias will overrule any sensible look at all the facts. Kelvin McKenzie Syndrome is alive and kicking.

[Branston Pickle 3,679]

46 minutes ago, Badger said:

Perhaps some of the "commentators" should read this? I'm sure they won't, unfortunately, as they feel that they are blessed with total understanding without any information, on this and all other matters! 🥴

The problem is that it’s one person’s version/perspective/experience.  Not everyone’s. I imagine the real truth/facts lie somewhere in between.  

For instance, we know for a fact, see Wembley last summer (and other examples), that there’s a set of “supporters” who are well versed in trying to get in to games without tickets and couldn’t give a toss about anyone else.  Liverpool has a track record of this, as do others.  It seems quite likely some of that happened here.  One indisputable fact here is that I have seen plenty of footage of Liverpool fans complaining about people trying to steal their tickets.

The media was proudly telling us that 60-80k Liverpool fans were in Paris, presumably there were plenty from Madrid.  The majority can’t have had tickets - but there’s a strong chance some will have decided to try to get them at the ground.

It’s also a fact that many innocent people will get caught up in it, see Wembley last summer - but those without tickets won’t give a stuff about these people.

The police response tends to be slightly indiscriminate- and to be fair they can’t know who the perpetrators are so it’s bound to be the case that innocents get caught up in it.  The problem for them is what to do when there is an issue, I imagine the language barrier was of no help at all.  It does seem that the stewarding was pretty shambolic.

The thing is it is all so easy to blame the supporters when it most likely isn’t the real ones, or the security - when it’s a mix of things. 

It all adds up to a mess - the shame is that the spectacle should be the football match, not what happens before or after.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Virtual reality 716]

38 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

And yet you are willing to go with the narrative that foreign police tear gas people for no reason.

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Virtual reality

[duke63 545]

If you travel to another country you have to accept they have a different way of dealing  with problems. 
 

 

[Badger 2,408]

27 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Believe everything you read do you?

my opinions based on irrefutable track record that wasn’t their fault of course.

If I believed everything I read, it would believe you! 🤯 🤯

Have to weigh up the probabilities here a respected journalist, posting in his own name, who was actually there vs an anonymous internet poster who wasn't?   Hmmmmm 🤔

[hertfordyellow 460]

8 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

 

You are missing the point being made. We won’t know exactly what went on throughout the day at this point. Isolated videos won’t provide that. My point is that saying there is a narrative against Liverpool fans and it’s absolutely wrong is the same as saying there is a narrative against police which is absolutely wrong. By assuming one side is blameless you are then applying all the blame to the other side.

[Newtopia 519]

Last night was not good.  Thank goodness it looks like no one was badly hurt.  I suspect there is truth on both sides, I really feel sorry for those fans who have been duped with fake tickets, the narrative from UEFA which seems to blame the fans for being late would seem an odd justification for teargas.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Newtopia

[Virtual reality 716]

 

[Virtual reality 716]

17 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

You are missing the point being made. We won’t know exactly what went on throughout the day at this point. Isolated videos won’t provide that. My point is that saying there is a narrative against Liverpool fans and it’s absolutely wrong is the same as saying there is a narrative against police which is absolutely wrong. By assuming one side is blameless you are then applying all the blame to the other side.

 

[The Real Buh 3,477]

22 minutes ago, Badger said:

If I believed everything I read, it would believe you! 🤯 🤯

Have to weigh up the probabilities here a respected journalist, posting in his own name, who was actually there vs an anonymous internet poster who wasn't?   Hmmmmm 🤔

Bold prediction - it won’t be their fault when it happens next time either 

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 minute ago, Virtual reality said:

 

This is pointless isn’t it? You didn’t read what I said did you?

[Badger 2,408]

26 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

 

It all adds up to a mess - the shame is that the spectacle should be the football match, not what happens before or after.

Only quoting the last sentence to save space but commenting on your point as a whole.

I agree that there were certainly some nefarious elements present, just as there were at Wembley. The problem is tarnishing all fans with the behaviour of the worst. I'm not saying that you are but some of the old slurs against Liverpool fans were very quickly repeated by some on this thread.

You and I are both old enough to remember how football fans were treated in "respectable society" in the 70s and especially the 80s. As you say, the policing was indiscriminate - that is the real issue imo, less we return to the "bad old days" of which there has been some sign recently.

[Virtual reality 716]

Just now, hertfordyellow said:

This is pointless isn’t it? You didn’t read what I said did you?

“And yet you are willing to go with the narrative that foreign police tear gas people for no reason.”

Provides video evidence of foreign police tear gassing people for no reason….

 

[DraytonBoy 160]

There is a major problem here in France with football hooliganism and the police always respond to any issue in the same way - batons, tear gas and pepper spray. Yesterday was nothing to do with hooligans and everything to do with poor checking of tickets and a lack of stewarding, loads of French journalists and celebrities got caught up in this and some couldn't get in even though they had genuine tickets, they've been posting their experiences on-line this morning and none of them have blamed Liverpool fans.

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

Only quoting the last sentence to save space but commenting on your point as a whole.

I agree that there were certainly some nefarious elements present, just as there were at Wembley. The problem is tarnishing all fans with the behaviour of the worst. I'm not saying that you are but some of the old slurs against Liverpool fans were very quickly repeated by some on this thread.

You and I are both old enough to remember how football fans were treated in "respectable society" in the 70s and especially the 80s. As you say, the policing was indiscriminate - that is the real issue imo, less we return to the "bad old days" of which there has been some sign recently.

How football fans were treated? Football grounds were a horrible place to be in these decades because of the violence, unsafe actions of fans which wasn’t isolated but widespread. 

[Virtual reality 716]

Just now, DraytonBoy said:

There is a major problem here in France with football hooliganism and the police always respond to any issue in the same way - batons, tear gas and pepper spray. Yesterday was nothing to do with hooligans and everything to do with poor checking of tickets and a lack of stewarding, loads of French journalists and celebrities got caught up in this and some couldn't get in even though they had genuine tickets, they've been posting their experiences on-line this morning and none of them have blamed Liverpool fans.

But, but, but it’s Liverpool fans based on an event that happened nearly 40 years ago…

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,797]

5 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

But, but, but it’s Liverpool fans based on an event that happened nearly 40 years ago…

..and 33 years ago...and 17 years ago...and 15 years ago...and 7 years ago....and 1 day ago

[Virtual reality 716]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

..and 33 years ago...and 17 years ago...and 15 years ago...and 7 years ago....and 1 day ago

Prejudice is strong with this one…