Might need to stick with Webber FTB

[rock bus 854]

I know there have been lots of calls for Webber's head - and I don't disagree with it.

But trying to be level headed this may not be the time to sack our Sporting Director. 

We are going to need a major overhaul of the squad and have a much smaller window in which to achieve it.

Webber has always spoke of the importance of planning and having a selection of targets so SHOULD be able to react quickly (although he also said that about the manager and I don't see that adds up with the appointment of Smith!)

If we sacked him the only replacement we could look at would be Adams as a totally new sporting director wouldn't have the time to assess the position and make the changes needed.

It risks Webber p' ing more money up the wall but if we were to replace him I think we should be aiming higher than Adams or we really will be going backwards.

[Google Bot 3,278]

We could make Smith manager and do without a sporting director is another option.

The whole point of a sporting director was to ensure continuity of the footballing operations at the club, but there's been none of that as we've brought in a new head coach, who's more of a manager type and doesn't fit the style of play that our players have been previously bought in for. 

I agree that Webber should stay, think it's madness to rip the script up at this point.  We've barely given the players a season before writing them all off.  Give it 6 months and we could be talking about what a legend Sargent is, for example.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I know there have been lots of calls for Webber's head - and I don't disagree with it.

But trying to be level headed this may not be the time to sack our Sporting Director. 

We are going to need a major overhaul of the squad and have a much smaller window in which to achieve it.

Webber has always spoke of the importance of planning and having a selection of targets so SHOULD be able to react quickly (although he also said that about the manager and I don't see that adds up with the appointment of Smith!)

If we sacked him the only replacement we could look at would be Adams as a totally new sporting director wouldn't have the time to assess the position and make the changes needed.

It risks Webber p' ing more money up the wall but if we were to replace him I think we should be aiming higher than Adams or we really will be going backwards.

Webber hasn't had a good transfer window since 2018. 

That we're in 2022 and calling Krul, Pukki and Hanley our best players is testimony to that. 

[Danke bitte 965]

5 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

We could make Smith manager and do without a sporting director is another option.

The whole point of a sporting director was to ensure continuity of the footballing operations at the club, but there's been none of that as we've brought in a new head coach, who's more of a manager type and doesn't fit the style of play that our players have been previously bought in for. 

I agree that Webber should stay, think it's madness to rip the script up at this point.  We've barely given the players a season before writing them all off.  Give it 6 months and we could be talking about what a legend Sargent is, for example.

I agree about the players but their minds are shot to sh1t after the season. It’s going to take some serious psychological work to get them back even if they were ever there to start with. There’s an interesting sound bite from Smith on the EDP this morning about bringing in players, potentially with a better mindset. If that’s the case then we’re going to have to let go of some surely??

[hogesar 9,676]

7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Webber hasn't had a good transfer window since 2018. 

That we're in 2022 and calling Krul, Pukki and Hanley our best players is testimony to that. 

Well, I'd say 2020 was good. Sold players who didn't negatively impact the team, signed Gianoullis, Skipp and Gibson who were all part of a Championiship winning campaign and kept hold of Pukki, Todd and Emi.

Not sure he could have got that window any more right, really.

[Bert 236]

There is no case for him to stay , he doesn’t want to be here nor has he performed adequately 

I am surprised he hasn’t gone by now, clearly he has no decency or honour 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

19 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

I agree about the players but their minds are shot to sh1t after the season. It’s going to take some serious psychological work to get them back even if they were ever there to start with. There’s an interesting sound bite from Smith on the EDP this morning about bringing in players, potentially with a better mindset. If that’s the case then we’re going to have to let go of some surely??

This is going to be a more extensive window in terms of comings and goings than Smith was saying until very recently.

[sgncfc 1,228]

47 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Webber hasn't had a good transfer window since 2018. 

That we're in 2022 and calling Krul, Pukki and Hanley our best players is testimony to that. 

The Summer window of 2020 was pretty damned good I would say as it led to a title win at a canter. He got £40m for Lewis and Godfrey, Skipp on loan, Gibson (at the time, a real coup), Sorensen (still seen by some on here as our saviour CDM), as well as McCallum, Placheta, Dowell and others for not much outlay. Even if you don't rate them, each one still worth at least what we paid for them.

But then if you seriously think Krul is still one of our best players......

Plus everyone on here thought at the time that last summer was pretty good too.

Edited May 24, 2022 by sgncfc

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

But then if you seriously think Krul is still one of our best players

Krul is one of our best players, going through a rare rough patch, he's been a tremendous signing for us, and two time title winner of course🏆 

If £70k a week is true then time to part ways for the sake of the rebuild, but one of the best keepers we've had.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

13 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Plus everyone on here thought at the time that last summer was pretty good too.

I think you know damn well that me being vocally displeased with the transfer business last summer resulted in me getting a lot of grief on here. I'm still looking for evidence that Sargent can use his left foot. 

[sgncfc 1,228]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Krul is one of our best players, going through a rare rough patch, he's been a tremendous signing for us, and two time title winner of course🏆 

If £70k a week is true then time to part ways for the sake of the rebuild, but one of the best keepers we've had.

We'll have to agree to differ. Never rated Krul that highly - some very good games but always a mistake in his game even when he was "playing well". Not even in the top5 keepers we've ever had. Gunn has some of the same faults but still has time to improve and is already the more reliable keeper.

[king canary 7,609]

45 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

This is going to be a more extensive window in terms of comings and goings than Smith was saying until very recently.

It feels like the goings should outweigh the comings this year. Squad feels bloated in places. 

[Canary dwarf 221]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

We could make Smith manager and do without a sporting director is another option.

The whole point of a sporting director was to ensure continuity of the footballing operations at the club, but there's been none of that as we've brought in a new head coach, who's more of a manager type and doesn't fit the style of play that our players have been previously bought in for. 

I agree that Webber should stay, think it's madness to rip the script up at this point.  We've barely given the players a season before writing them all off.  Give it 6 months and we could be talking about what a legend Sargent is, for example.

Sargeant could be many things in six months time , not so sure about legend though. Lol

[Canary dwarf 221]

11 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Krul is one of our best players, going through a rare rough patch, he's been a tremendous signing for us, and two time title winner of course🏆 

If £70k a week is true then time to part ways for the sake of the rebuild, but one of the best keepers we've had.

Is krul really on 70k a week,,

[Google Bot 3,278]

19 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

Sargeant could be many things in six months time , not so sure about legend though. Lol

Cult hero? 🙂

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

24 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

Is krul really on 70k a week,,

According to a recent discussion on here, which I believe originated from Michael Bailey's Athletic article he's the highest earner on £70k a week.

Edited May 24, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

We could make Smith manager and do without a sporting director is another option.

The whole point of a sporting director was to ensure continuity of the footballing operations at the club, but there's been none of that as we've brought in a new head coach, who's more of a manager type and doesn't fit the style of play that our players have been previously bought in for. 

I agree that Webber should stay, think it's madness to rip the script up at this point.  We've barely given the players a season before writing them all off.  Give it 6 months and we could be talking about what a legend Sargent is, for example.

Is that true? I get that various styles and formations have been tried this season, in a desperate attempt to get something to work, but I don't get the impression, based on how he managed or head coached at his previous clubs, that his favoured footballing philosophy, and the one he will want to implement next season, and Farke's are that different.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

We could make Smith manager and do without a sporting director is another option.

The whole point of a sporting director was to ensure continuity of the footballing operations at the club, but there's been none of that as we've brought in a new head coach, who's more of a manager type and doesn't fit the style of play that our players have been previously bought in for. 

I agree that Webber should stay, think it's madness to rip the script up at this point.  We've barely given the players a season before writing them all off.  Give it 6 months and we could be talking about what a legend Sargent is, for example.

We've been there before and it results in too much change when a new manager is appointed. The aim of the sporting director/coach model is to make the whole strategic element of acquisitions and transfers more of a collegiate process so that if any one person goes then continuity is maintained. The model is favoured in Europe and is becoming more accepted in England because it's fundamentally a better structure. 

We can't draw any conclusions about style of play under Smith because our whole squad has been so consistently outclassed by the opposition that there has never been enough flow to identify any style or identity at all and this was the case early in the season when Farke was still in charge. 

Unfortunately, the 'sack the manager' brigade seem to be working to frustrate that by adopting a 'sack the head coach and the sporting director' approach. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Is that true?

Yes, Smith has always wanted to play a high pressing football.  We lack the players for that, too lightweight and players bought in to this "farkeball" method of possession football.

If you've missed that, I really don't know what you've been watching in all honesty.  The difference, and stripping of any attractive character we had left in our play is quite stark for me.

Smith requires a more athletic, physical squad so they can press and attack the ball as a unit.  Farke in contrast, even in the championship, would be happy holding 80% possession, remaining patient on the belief that it's not "If" we score, but "when".

[Nuff Said 5,145]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

There is no case for him to stay , he doesn’t want to be here nor has he performed adequately 

I am surprised he hasn’t gone by now, clearly he has no decency or honour 

Are you talking Webber or Boris?

[Monty13 2,235]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

This is going to be a more extensive window in terms of comings and goings than Smith was saying until very recently.

Maybe he’s just meant less than last year? We had what 11 new players? That was pretty crazy.  Maybe this year it’s less than double figures in comparison.

[Canary dwarf 221]

19 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

According to a recent discussion on here, which I believe originated from Michael Bailey's Athletic article he's the highest earner on £70k a week.

Wow maybe we're not such bad payers after all , he will have to take a pay cut though , pukkis reportedly on 60 k.😁

[Google Bot 3,278]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The aim of the sporting director/coach model is to make the whole strategic element of acquisitions and transfers more of a collegiate process so that if any one person goes then continuity is maintained

Continuity when replacing the head coach of upmost importance too.  Smith wasn't a planned replacement, he was in a job when we got rid of Farke so we know this.

He was brought in solely as he had prem league survival and promotion on his cv, there was no strategic element on working with the resources we had at the club,  as Smith himself is now alluding too with remarks that players lacked "legs" and suited a different style of play.

From a continuity perspective, the appointment should've been someone like Knutsen who embraces possession football and has been carving out his own 'bodo' model.

I really can't sit here today and say that the director/coach model has provided us the continuity expected.  I don't want things to change as I see no better man than Webber to keep pulling the strings.   

However, if people are suggesting Adams, Smith & Shakespeare is an improvement while still pushing this director/coach model - then I don't share that optimism.  We'd have a head coach acting as manager, and a director being wagged like a tail.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

3 hours ago, rock bus said:

I know there have been lots of calls for Webber's head - and I don't disagree with it.

But trying to be level headed this may not be the time to sack our Sporting Director. 

We are going to need a major overhaul of the squad and have a much smaller window in which to achieve it.

Webber has always spoke of the importance of planning and having a selection of targets so SHOULD be able to react quickly (although he also said that about the manager and I don't see that adds up with the appointment of Smith!)

If we sacked him the only replacement we could look at would be Adams as a totally new sporting director wouldn't have the time to assess the position and make the changes needed.

It risks Webber p' ing more money up the wall but if we were to replace him I think we should be aiming higher than Adams or we really will be going backwards.

Like you I think, I have become extremely sceptical of the contuinity/planning which was supposed to be the major benefit of having a DoF - last summer's signing don't really provide any evidence of planning since neither of our two requirements (Emi & Skipp replacements) were met at all and neither departures were any surprise. Even more so, as you also say, there was clearly nothing in place before Farke was so stupidly sacked, so I suspect we have probably been fed **** all along about the continuity and transfer planning that has supposedly been going on.

But I don't know why you think Adams  wouldn't have time to 'assess the position' etc - he is Webber's deputy so I would assume he is as up to speed as Webber is himself (whatever that means) plus he isn't about to disappear up a mountain for the next few weeks.

IMO Webber should be gone now, and I assume the Board in this instance have done some succession planning and already decided that when Webber went Adams would be his replacement - now seems like the right time to me.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We've been there before and it results in too much change when a new manager is appointed. The aim of the sporting director/coach model is to make the whole strategic element of acquisitions and transfers more of a collegiate process so that if any one person goes then continuity is maintained. The model is favoured in Europe and is becoming more accepted in England because it's fundamentally a better structure.

Completely agree with that but the problem is the first time we've replaced the manager under the model absolutely none of that happened - we didn't have a continuity plan and made what I can only see as a panic appointment of an extremely average coach in Smith and the situation we are in now where continuity in the squad and the style of football is also shredded/or about to be.

So if you believe in the DoF model, and I must admit I have changed my ideas from very sceptical to moderately positive, then surely the only conclusion that NCFC can reach is that we have the wrong DoF because he has failed badly this season in all the important aspects of his role.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

3 hours ago, rock bus said:

I know there have been lots of calls for Webber's head - and I don't disagree with it.

But trying to be level headed this may not be the time to sack our Sporting Director. 

We are going to need a major overhaul of the squad and have a much smaller window in which to achieve it.

Webber has always spoke of the importance of planning and having a selection of targets so SHOULD be able to react quickly (although he also said that about the manager and I don't see that adds up with the appointment of Smith!)

If we sacked him the only replacement we could look at would be Adams as a totally new sporting director wouldn't have the time to assess the position and make the changes needed.

It risks Webber p' ing more money up the wall but if we were to replace him I think we should be aiming higher than Adams or we really will be going backwards.

Quote "We are going to need a major overhaul of the squad"

 

I'd rather he did not do it.

[Capt. Pants 4,247]

This is typical Norwich **** footing around. If Webber was prepared to give 100% focus to NCFC between now and the end of the coming transfer window then they may be able to continue their relationship. Is that likely? If he can't commit to that then he has to leave. This is a massive summer coming up for the club and we can't have a half-arsed approach. 

[RugbyCanary 94]

43 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

This is typical Norwich **** footing around. If Webber was prepared to give 100% focus to NCFC between now and the end of the coming transfer window then they may be able to continue their relationship. Is that likely? If he can't commit to that then he has to leave. This is a massive summer coming up for the club and we can't have a half-arsed approach. 

This completely.  Enough of the 'little Norwich' what do we want to be? If people dont do their job,  they gotta go. Same as in my job!!

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Yes, Smith has always wanted to play a high pressing football.  We lack the players for that, too lightweight and players bought in to this "farkeball" method of possession football.

If you've missed that, I really don't know what you've been watching in all honesty.  The difference, and stripping of any attractive character we had left in our play is quite stark for me.

Smith requires a more athletic, physical squad so they can press and attack the ball as a unit.  Farke in contrast, even in the championship, would be happy holding 80% possession, remaining patient on the belief that it's not "If" we score, but "when".

I haven't seen any football since the Euro final last summer.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

He must go. He won't be here much so why pay him? Why allow him to only put in 90% of what we need? Why let him continue to be a failure? He has a litany of bad signings.