Tom Rogic

[canarydan23 4,060]

Been released by Celtic, a creative attacking midfielder but with a big physical presence. It was widely held that he wanted to head back to Australia as he's missed home but he's come out saying that isn't likely.

Was allegedly only on £21k at Celtic so within our wage structure, but has the ability to play in a top league so might not fancy second tier. Still, I'd be getting on the blower to his agent ASAP, he'd be great for us.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by canarydan23

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

I like him, but I think if we break the model to sign an ageing goalscoring midfielder on a free transfer on hefty wages and with no resale value... I suspect it will be Conor Hourihane? 

Edited May 18, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I like him, but I think if we break the model to sign an ageing goalscoring midfielder on a free transfer on hefty wages and with no resale value... I suspect it will be Conor Hourihane? 

I suspect you might be right, but it would make zero sense. 1 goal in 30 for Hourihane in his Sheffield Utd stint, and that penalty last night alone puts me off. Rogic has a couple of years and a few inches on him to.

I guess Hourihane would definitely be keen whereas Rogic might fancy a better league, but that's about the only positive I can think of that Hourihane has over him. That and the fact that if he's playing for us he can't score against us.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

12 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Been released by Celtic, a creative attacking midfielder but with a big physical presence. It was widely held that he wanted to head back to Australia as he's missed home but he's come out saying that isn't likely.

Was allegedly only on £21k at Celtic so within our wage structure, but has the ability to play in a top league so might not fancy second tier. Still, I'd be getting on the blower to his agent ASAP, he'd be great for us.

 

No

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I suspect you might be right, but it would make zero sense. 1 goal in 30 for Hourihane in his Sheffield Utd stint, and that penalty last night alone puts me off. Rogic has a couple of years and a few inches on him to.

I guess Hourihane would definitely be keen whereas Rogic might fancy a better league, but that's about the only positive I can think of that Hourihane has over him. That and the fact that if he's playing for us he can't score against us.

Yeah don't know what has happened with his goal tally this year, perhaps playing a different role to normal? I suppose could counter with him playing 30 times for a team which reached the play-offs. 

Hourihane linked to West Brom though as well, and if genuine he may decide that it suits him to not have to move house? Presumably settled in the Midlands having been at Villa for 5 years, suppose it depends whether he's a family man with kids etc.

Perhaps we should show Rogic the surfing spots of Norfolk, always see a few in Cromer 🤣

[TheRock 171]

13 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Been released by Celtic, a creative attacking midfielder but with a big physical presence. It was widely held that he wanted to head back to Australia as he's missed home but he's come out saying that isn't likely.

Was allegedly only on £21k at Celtic so within our wage structure, but has the ability to play in a top league so might not fancy second tier. Still, I'd be getting on the blower to his agent ASAP, he'd be great for us.

 

It wouldn't be a surpirse to be honest, Delia and Michael have always has a love-in with the Scottish League, especially the Glasgow teams.

 

Intrestingly Rogic has been at Celtic for 10 seasons. During the McNally era with Lambert / Hughton / Alex Neil, we must have been linked with atleast a third of Celtic's 13/14 squad, notably Nir Bitton, Shane Stokes and Virgil van Dijk (what could have been...!). Of course we did sign Hooper, and later Pukki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Celtic_F.C._season#Player_statistics

 

[Move Klose 303]

41 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I like him, but I think if we break the model to sign an ageing goalscoring midfielder on a free transfer on hefty wages and with no resale value... I suspect it will be Conor Hourihane? 

People are still judging off him from 3 years ago, if we are signing players like him I'd be very very concerned 

[TheGunnShow 5,994]

Vaguely remember Rogic as being a bit like Stiepermann in that he was a big physical presence but never quite used it, if that makes any sense. Not saying they're completely similar players, just saying that just being big physically doesn't necessarily mean they'll be the more physically imposing / aggressive sorts on the pitch.

Edited May 18, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[shefcanary 2,448]

Just to confirm here, I've been to Bramall Lane a few times this season and Hourihane was used mainly as a sub (Norwood plays a similar role and was preferred).  Even when he came on he looked well past it, powder puff at best.  He really is not the solution to our midfield problems.

Rogic though might be a one season, get the job done, type of player for us.  

[Mr Apples 1,330]

Rumours were that he might be off to the Middle East.

Apples

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 528]

15 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Just to confirm here, I've been to Bramall Lane a few times this season and Hourihane was used mainly as a sub (Norwood plays a similar role and was preferred).  Even when he came on he looked well past it, powder puff at best.  He really is not the solution to our midfield problems.

Rogic though might be a one season, get the job done, type of player for us.  

Yes indeed. Let's just get back to the Prem and not worry about how we do once we get there.

There has to be more of a plan this time, even if it takes a while to build a team who can hols their own in the Prem. No one under 6 ft or lightweight.

[Nuff Said 5,176]

48 minutes ago, TheRock said:

It wouldn't be a surpirse to be honest, Delia and Michael have always has a love-in with the Scottish League, especially the Glasgow teams.

 

Intrestingly Rogic has been at Celtic for 10 seasons. During the McNally era with Lambert / Hughton / Alex Neil, we must have been linked with atleast a third of Celtic's 13/14 squad, notably Nir Bitton, Shane Stokes and Virgil van Dijk (what could have been...!). Of course we did sign Hooper, and later Pukki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Celtic_F.C._season#Player_statistics

 

Yeah, because they are personally responsible for scouting and choosing all the players we recruit.

 

[WD40 720]

Very similar to what we’ve seen from PLM for me. In the 2nd tier PLM should be fine. 

[1902 1,167]

42 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Yes indeed. Let's just get back to the Prem and not worry about how we do once we get there.

There has to be more of a plan this time, even if it takes a while to build a team who can hols their own in the Prem. No one under 6 ft or lightweight.

Lightweight fair enough, but 6 ft tall is really not required.

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

Rather have Tom Selleck

[Monty13 2,251]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I like him, but I think if we break the model to sign an ageing goalscoring midfielder on a free transfer on hefty wages and with no resale value... I suspect it will be Conor Hourihane? 

He’s 29. What this team needs is a better balance of more experience to prospects IMO.

[Monty13 2,251]

3 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

I suspect you might be right, but it would make zero sense. 1 goal in 30 for Hourihane in his Sheffield Utd stint, and that penalty last night alone puts me off. Rogic has a couple of years and a few inches on him to.

I guess Hourihane would definitely be keen whereas Rogic might fancy a better league, but that's about the only positive I can think of that Hourihane has over him. That and the fact that if he's playing for us he can't score against us.

I don’t really understand why people think Smith would be keen on him, he’s the one who deemed him surplus at Villa.

[chicken 2,642]

20 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

He’s 29. What this team needs is a better balance of more experience to prospects IMO.

Not in CM.

PLM is 28/29, McLean is 30, Rupp is 31 (if he stays). None of those are creative midfielders though is the argument I would expect. Though PLM has done well there towards the end of the season.

We need to sort this transition now, not postpone it for another season. If we sign someone who is 29/30 they need to be exceptional or seen as being able to add something to the dressing room. We don't need another player we'll need to replace in a years time so we can have another summer like the last next summer... 

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Yeah, because they are personally responsible for scouting and choosing all the players we recruit.

 

Someone scouts our players? 🤔 

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 528]

43 minutes ago, Channon’s Windmill said:

Someone scouts our players? 🤔 

Yes,  by playing FIFA 12

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 412]

He's been released for a reason, is it really worth the risk of having another duff on the books.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Monty13 said:

He’s 29. What this team needs is a better balance of more experience to prospects IMO.

I don't disagree that the team needs a better balance of more experience to prospects.

Would love to know how signing Rogic helps us with that though, seeing as he's a centre mid and would presumably be taking minutes from either McLean (30) or Rupp (31). 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Move Klose said:

People are still judging off him from 3 years ago, if we are signing players like him I'd be very very concerned 

Could say similar about Rogic to be fair, had a crap couple of seasons, go and look at this stats up to 2018 and his stats since. Better season this year but seen as a return to form after a few pretty mediocre seasons. 

Not sure that 6 goals in 55 games across three seasons in the SPL from 2018-19 to 2020-21 shouts out "I'm the goalscoring centre mid that you desperately need" when a clapped out old Graham Dorrans went up there and scored 5 in 17 for Rangers.

Naismith scored 14 in 33 for Hearts in the 2018/19 season, Rogic managed 3 in 21 for Celtic that season.

Not even been a regular starter for Australia since 2018.

How about we stop looking at the SPL and being impressed by the stats, I'll never forget the time an ageing Michael Nelson went from League Two Bradford City to playing week in week out for Hibs in the Scottish Prem, just as a reminder of the standard of defenders that these attacking players are up against. 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Jambomo 215]

Rogic is a good player but he never seems to be able to manage a full game. I always seem to watch games where he gets subbed - either on or off.

The Scottish Prem is more physical than people give it credit for but if he can’t play a full 90 up here, he’ll never manage a full 90 in the Championship.

[Monty13 2,251]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I don't disagree that the team needs a better balance of more experience to prospects.

Would love to know how signing Rogic helps us with that though, seeing as he's a centre mid and would presumably be taking minutes from either McLean (30) or Rupp (31). 

Rupp won’t likely be here.

[chicken 2,642]

7 hours ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Yes indeed. Let's just get back to the Prem and not worry about how we do once we get there.

There has to be more of a plan this time, even if it takes a while to build a team who can hols their own in the Prem. No one under 6 ft or lightweight.

We do want a core of the team that are the right side of 30 though. Height isn't everything, some pace would be helpful too.

He'd need to be exceptional to bring here, we don't just need players who can do a job at this level. We got promoted with two teams made up of that ilk of player, you need more that can make that step up. I don't see the advantage of adding too many players who will not make the grade. We'll face the same issue as last summer.

We want to have a good dozen players who at least stand a chance of delivering something at Premier League level before we get there.

It needs to be very careful surgery on this team. There are lessons to be learned from Leeds, Brentford and Sheff Utd. We don't need to follow their example as such, but we can look at the fact that they largely all kept the core of their championship squads together and added fewer players with more quality.

Last summer proved that. Too many players needing to be replaced either because they wanted out or because of their age / not being good enough. Despite what folks say, all bar one or two would have added anything, and only then in hindsight.

We need to be looking at players that are good enough now, or that have the potential to be good enough. Not players that are getting released from SPL teams.

At 29 he won't want to sign a one year deal, or a two year deal. He'll be looking for some security.

Edited May 18, 2022 by chicken

[chicken 2,642]

16 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Rupp won’t likely be here.

Lees-Melou will be 29 on the 25th May. 

[Monty13 2,251]

2 hours ago, chicken said:

Lees-Melou will be 29 on the 25th May. 

I don’t understand the issue Chicken, are we only allowed one 29 year old in the squad?

My point was as a whole the squad needs a better balance of experience and prospects. I’m not advocating for Rogic, I just don’t understand why we apparently can’t bring in players who have up to 6 years of playing career left.

I also don’t understand why apparently that experience isn’t allowed to be concentrated in the centre of the park when it’s by far our weakest area.

[chicken 2,642]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

I don’t understand the issue Chicken, are we only allowed one 29 year old in the squad?

My point was as a whole the squad needs a better balance of experience and prospects. I’m not advocating for Rogic, I just don’t understand why we apparently can’t bring in players who have up to 6 years of playing career left.

I also don’t understand why apparently that experience isn’t allowed to be concentrated in the centre of the park when it’s by far our weakest area.

It was more the point that we already have a fair bit of experience across the board.

GK: Krul(34), Gunn(26), McGovern(37), then others that are early 20's and younger.
Def: Hanley(30), Gibson(29), Zimmermann(29), Byram(28), Giannoulis(26)
CM: Rupp (though out of contract, 31), McLean(30), PLM(28, 29 on 25th May), 
Wing/AM: Hernandez(29), Rashica(25, 26 in June), Sinani(25).
Str: Pukki(32), Hugill(29, 30 in June).

I think that's about all of the players 25 and older to look at experience. You could throw Aarons into that as well as he's played more games than a lot of players a good few years older than him.

Either way, I think you can see down the core of the team, if anything, we don't need more experience. We need better players or players that offer something else. In some cases we have them already perhaps, like Idah, perhaps Mumba and McCallum etc.

The point I was making was trying to look forward. The teams that have succeeded where we haven't have done so with players that had scope to improve or at least continue to deliver reliably at the levels they already were. I also said that if we were to sign someone who is 29+ they'd have to be slightly exceptional, as in, like how Brighton signed Lallana. For me Rogic doesn't fit any of that criteria. Rangers clearly don't feel he can continue to deliver for them. And you have to be honest, the level of opponents in the SPL are mixed.

 

[Monty13 2,251]

36 minutes ago, chicken said:

It was more the point that we already have a fair bit of experience across the board.

GK: Krul(34), Gunn(26), McGovern(37), then others that are early 20's and younger.
Def: Hanley(30), Gibson(29), Zimmermann(29), Byram(28), Giannoulis(26)
CM: Rupp (though out of contract, 31), McLean(30), PLM(28, 29 on 25th May), 
Wing/AM: Hernandez(29), Rashica(25, 26 in June), Sinani(25).
Str: Pukki(32), Hugill(29, 30 in June).

I think that's about all of the players 25 and older to look at experience. You could throw Aarons into that as well as he's played more games than a lot of players a good few years older than him.

Either way, I think you can see down the core of the team, if anything, we don't need more experience. We need better players or players that offer something else. In some cases we have them already perhaps, like Idah, perhaps Mumba and McCallum etc.

The point I was making was trying to look forward. The teams that have succeeded where we haven't have done so with players that had scope to improve or at least continue to deliver reliably at the levels they already were. I also said that if we were to sign someone who is 29+ they'd have to be slightly exceptional, as in, like how Brighton signed Lallana. For me Rogic doesn't fit any of that criteria. Rangers clearly don't feel he can continue to deliver for them. And you have to be honest, the level of opponents in the SPL are mixed.

 

I don’t think thats a particularly long list of experience, especially when you consider a good proportion of them haven’t been here this year and/or potentially won’t be here next year.

Regardless of whether Rogic is good enough, I don’t know enough about the player, I think players that can improve this squad and do so for at least the next two, possibly three seasons is the priority. 

Not every player needs to be one with the potential to dramatically improve, we need some players who are just very good at what they do and age shouldn’t be a defining factor imo.