Palace team news

[cambridgeshire canary 6,818]

23 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'd suggest you'd be in the minority, especially if you asked Premier League managers. But each to their own!

Byram is a very solid player and there is no doubt in my mind he could slot into most midtable prem teams with ease..

 

But he's not starting over Aarons. Just won't happen.

[kirku 1,339]

23 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Because Sargent and Rashica drop back and tuck in well to make a midfield 4. I don't see that with Placheta as I'm not so impressed by his back tracking and defensive covering.

I think we'll go with 3 in midfield to start with.

You're probably right on formation but looks like Smith doesn't agree regarding Placheta, going by what he said today.

I'm not sure you'd categorise the formation against Watford as a 4-4-2 but it's splitting hairs really. 

[king canary 7,680]

27 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Exactly, I'd say defensively Byram's the better right-back and he also gives us much more of a physical presence than Aarons, and whilst I agree that Aarons should be near the starting line-up, we're doing fine at left-back, which is generally the other spot Byram goes.

If you want a more attacking right-back, then Aarons is your man every time, but I'd say Byram's got the edge defensively.

 

I kind of agree but in general this just points to how the full back role has evolved over time- right now a fullback is as much judged for what they can bring going forward as they are defensively. The role is now more filled with players who would be probably have been wingers 10 years ago, rather than those whose secondary position would be a central defender. In that way Byram is a bit more of a throwback to how fullbacks used to be- solid defensively, OK going forward but not much for opposing defenders to worry about. 

I do wonder if Byram stays fit that a positional move may be in his future- either into central midfield or central defence (although maybe only in a back 3). 

Also to say Aarons should be 'near' the starting line up is a massive understatement of how good a player he is. He's first name on the team sheet. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

No Sorenson so is it Kenny with Lees Melou if Sargent were to play? Or does Norman come in alongside PLM. Or any combination.

[yellowrider120 791]

47 minutes ago, pete said:

Usual back 5, midfield of Normann, Gilmour, Rashica and PLM.  Pukki and Idah up front.  Rashica on flamks

This match is so important, I just can't see us starting with two players just back from injuries (one of whom was out for 10 weeks and who looked dead after his 26 minute stint on Saturday). Also, no way in the world will McLean be left out!

I agree that if Sargent is out then Idah wins a reprieve so its a question of who makes up the 'midfield' three. I think he will go with McLean /Gilmour / PLM (or Rupp). If Placheta plays that complicates things as Gilmour can't really play 'in a two' as he doesn't have the physicality so that may mean running with McLean and PLM again?  

[king canary 7,680]

7 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

This match is so important, I just can't see us starting with two players just back from injuries (one of whom was out for 10 weeks and who looked dead after his 26 minute stint on Saturday). Also, no way in the world will McLean be left out!

I agree that if Sargent is out then Idah wins a reprieve so its a question of who makes up the 'midfield' three. I think he will go with McLean /Gilmour / PLM (or Rupp). If Placheta plays that complicates things as Gilmour can't really play 'in a two' as he doesn't have the physicality so that may mean running with McLean and PLM again?  

I don't think Idah was in need of a reprieve- he's been key to this recent run in that he adds a new dimension to our attack. It has never been an either/or thing with Idah and Sargent in this run.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Palace team news

Paul Burrell takes over from Back Stairs Billy in goal. Prince Andrew is on the bench. Well in front of it. Camilla likes it at the back and Charles is going for the midfield three of us in this marriage. The Queen is captain and calls "me" at the coin toss. Harry doesn't want to play but will be quite happy to do the press conference after. Meghan is going to play w(h)inger.

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

34 minutes ago, king canary said:

I kind of agree but in general this just points to how the full back role has evolved over time- right now a fullback is as much judged for what they can bring going forward as they are defensively. The role is now more filled with players who would be probably have been wingers 10 years ago, rather than those whose secondary position would be a central defender. In that way Byram is a bit more of a throwback to how fullbacks used to be- solid defensively, OK going forward but not much for opposing defenders to worry about. 

I do wonder if Byram stays fit that a positional move may be in his future- either into central midfield or central defence (although maybe only in a back 3). 

Also to say Aarons should be 'near' the starting line up is a massive understatement of how good a player he is. He's first name on the team sheet. 

Agree with this in essence, particularly with the comment re. the evolution of a full-back's role. but there are three things I'd point out:

1. Byram can pose some attacking problems, but mainly from set pieces, not open play. He's certainly got himself into good positions on occasion, particularly in aerial battles, but not really been able to take advantage of it.

2. Moreover, I'd argue that in our position, we need our full-backs to be defensive first and foremost as it appears to have been part of our rebound.

3. Furthermore, I'd also say that this season, Aarons has really been more nuisance value than genuine threat down the flanks this season. He has got forward to some effect on occasion, but still can be very hit-and-miss with his crosses. I can definitely see how he could dovetail nicely with a Placheta or Sargent when going forward (the thought of two speedsters hammering it down the same flank is something I always like the idea of) but it's not there yet.

Aarons wouldn't deserve a bad word from anyone, he's been nothing short of a model professional in all his showings, but if we're keeping clean sheets or at least being defensively more adept with Byram in, then Byram's earned a run for me. It does just appear a shame that a lad like Max is on the wrong end.

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think Idah was in need of a reprieve- he's been key to this recent run in that he adds a new dimension to our attack. It has never been an either/or thing with Idah and Sargent in this run.

Agreed here. Idah and Sargent should ideally be together as that extra strength, size, and in Sargent's case, good old-fashioned workrate mean both are willing and determined out balls if we're under pressure.

[king canary 7,680]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Aarons wouldn't deserve a bad word from anyone, he's been nothing short of a model professional in all his showings, but if we're keeping clean sheets or at least being defensively more adept with Byram in, then Byram's earned a run for me. It does just appear a shame that a lad like Max is on the wrong end.

Am I missing something here? You're talking as if we've been on some run on defensive stability but we've kept two clean sheets with Byram, one against a League One side, and one with Aarons in this recent form. You're talking as if Byram has been starting all this time with Aarons out. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by king canary

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

Just now, king canary said:

Am I missing something here? You're talking as if we've been on some run on defensive stability but we've kept two clean sheets with Byram, one against a League One side, and one with Aarons in this recent form. 

We're looking more robust defensively and Byram's been in the middle of it - and the Wolves cup-tie away was quite a test, I thought. They didn't play too well, but I don't think we let them.

Basically, all I'm saying is that if we seem to have found a defensive line-up that's keeping the ball out for now, let's stick with it as far as we can and not change it too much. For me, as much as I'd like to see both Omobamidele and Aarons in at once, the only change to the back line I'd do is bring Gunn back in goal.

[Hucks6 169]

It’s amazing some of us were saying Josh Sargent was crap ( I always thought there was decent player in there) now most people are saying he will be missed tomorrow night, yes he will be missed

[Mason 47 1,403]

My opinion in the last Prem season was that Byram was very much our most complete fullback. 

Love Aarons to bits but the thing that keeps him as likely to start is his saleability, like Godfrey and Lewis before him. Otherwise it would be a much closer issue for that RB slot IMO

[rock bus 854]

36 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

2. Moreover, I'd argue that in our position, we need our full-backs to be defensive first and foremost as it appears to have been part of our rebound.
 

This is key to the point that I was making with original comment.

Don't get me wrong I think that Aarons is a great player and has been brilliant for us (I also have a lot of respect for the way he has conducted himself amongst all the transfer rumours and our relegation)

BUT for what we need now as a team struggling to stay in the premiership is a 'traditional' full back who is good at tackling, heading, positioning and battling rather than a skillful, forward thinking, fast, attacking playing fullback.

(I'd suggest this is exactly why Smith is starting with Williams on the other side rather than Dimi)

Let's be honest, it's great to be having a debate about two quality players in the same position!

[shefcanary 2,466]

1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said:

"one of whom was out for 10 weeks and who looked dead after his 26 minute stint on Saturday"

Doesn't Normann always look knackered though, even when practically fit (I accept we have not yet seen him play when fully fit).  I read on here once that the poster felt Normann does this "fake" knackered look to put the opposition off guard.  Whatever, I wouldn't be too concerned and the bench do monitor him via the sports bra monitor!

[king canary 7,680]

45 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

We're looking more robust defensively and Byram's been in the middle of it - and the Wolves cup-tie away was quite a test, I thought. They didn't play too well, but I don't think we let them.

Basically, all I'm saying is that if we seem to have found a defensive line-up that's keeping the ball out for now, let's stick with it as far as we can and not change it too much. For me, as much as I'd like to see both Omobamidele and Aarons in at once, the only change to the back line I'd do is bring Gunn back in goal.

I'm not advocating for change though, you are.

In every single league game, Aarons has started when available. So the change being advocated is to play Byram.

Also I'm still baffled by this idea that Byram is at the heart of looking more solid defensively. Did we not look solid defensively v Everton or Watford in the league? I thought so and Aaron's played those. 

It would be really odd to drop one of our best players who's played an important role in us picking up 6 points from our last 2 league games for a player who has started two Cup games, one against a midtable league one side.

[king canary 7,680]

14 minutes ago, rock bus said:

This is key to the point that I was making with original comment.

Don't get me wrong I think that Aarons is a great player and has been brilliant for us (I also have a lot of respect for the way he has conducted himself amongst all the transfer rumours and our relegation)

BUT for what we need now as a team struggling to stay in the premiership is a 'traditional' full back who is good at tackling, heading, positioning and battling rather than a skillful, forward thinking, fast, attacking playing fullback.

(I'd suggest this is exactly why Smith is starting with Williams on the other side rather than Dimi)

Let's be honest, it's great to be having a debate about two quality players in the same position!

Personally I think the fact he's starting Williams over Dimi is exactly why Aarons has to start over Byram. Starting two more defensively minded fullbacks to me is going too far in the other direction.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,183]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not advocating for change though, you are.

In every single league game, Aarons has started when available. So the change being advocated is to play Byram.

Also I'm still baffled by this idea that Byram is at the heart of looking more solid defensively. Did we not look solid defensively v Everton or Watford in the league? I thought so and Aaron's played those. 

It would be really odd to drop one of our best players who's played an important role in us picking up 6 points from our last 2 league games for a player who has started two Cup games, one against a midtable league one side.

My take on it is this.

Do I think Aarons will start tomorrow night? Yes

If it was up to me would I pick Aarons or Byram? Aarons.

Would I be remotely worried if Smith picked Byram ahead of Aarons tomorrow night? No. 

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not advocating for change though, you are.

In every single league game, Aarons has started when available. So the change being advocated is to play Byram.

Also I'm still baffled by this idea that Byram is at the heart of looking more solid defensively. Did we not look solid defensively v Everton or Watford in the league? I thought so and Aaron's played those. 

It would be really odd to drop one of our best players who's played an important role in us picking up 6 points from our last 2 league games for a player who has started two Cup games, one against a midtable league one side.

Not changing from the last line-up, with Byram in it. As I said, the only change I'd make to the defence is to bring Gunn back in goal - Wolves away was definitely quite a test and I thought we did very well to stifle them. Watford gave us a lot more trouble for that half-an-hour spell after Lungi went off injured and before Sargent scored, and Everton were very much out of form when we faced them.

If you're making the point that we looked better defensively in both those league games compared to what we've seen before them with Aarons in the team then I agree. However, I say that Wolves was a harder test of our newly-found defensive acumen, but we made them play quite poorly and for the most part defended well.

As @rock bus rightly said, it's great that we can start having these discussions though, as it means there's depth in there.

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

26 minutes ago, rock bus said:

This is key to the point that I was making with original comment.

Don't get me wrong I think that Aarons is a great player and has been brilliant for us (I also have a lot of respect for the way he has conducted himself amongst all the transfer rumours and our relegation)

BUT for what we need now as a team struggling to stay in the premiership is a 'traditional' full back who is good at tackling, heading, positioning and battling rather than a skillful, forward thinking, fast, attacking playing fullback.

(I'd suggest this is exactly why Smith is starting with Williams on the other side rather than Dimi)

Let's be honest, it's great to be having a debate about two quality players in the same position!

Exactly this in bold. @king canary does make an extremely valid point that two defensive full-backs might be too much, I take the notion that we need to batten the doors down a bit, especially as Palace are a big old side, and then our next two league games are very much a severe test of defensive mettle in Man City and Liverpool.

[Don’t be Krul 399]

2 hours ago, pete said:

Usual back 5, midfield of Normann, Gilmour, Rashica and PLM.  Pukki and Idah up front.  Rashica on flamks

If we can get away with a 5-4-2 formation happy days 🤣

[yellowrider120 791]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I don't think Idah was in need of a reprieve- he's been key to this recent run in that he adds a new dimension to our attack. It has never been an either/or thing with Idah and Sargent in this run.

Definitely agree with you there although Smith basically said when Idah and Sargent both started v Everton that we had virtually no-one left in midfield that he was almost forced into that formation. Now the midfield department is fully stocked again (bar Sorenson), he has more options and I think Idah would have made way if Sargent had been fit. I think P Davitt alluded to this in the Q&A by saying that Sargent gives the aerial and hassling attributes upfront (albeit it in a wider role) that both Idah and Pukki may not be needed which would give room for more protection in midfield (in terms of numbers).   

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

51 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

If we can get away with a 5-4-2 formation happy days 🤣

I think he is including the keeper in the five.

[Making Plans 940]

2 hours ago, Hucks6 said:

It’s amazing some of us were saying Josh Sargent was crap ( I always thought there was decent player in there) now most people are saying he will be missed tomorrow night, yes he will be missed

As far as I'm aware Smith didn't say he was definitely out, only that he was doubtful.

 

[Mengo 825]

5 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Doesn't Normann always look knackered though, even when practically fit (I accept we have not yet seen him play when fully fit).  I read on here once that the poster felt Normann does this "fake" knackered look to put the opposition off guard.  Whatever, I wouldn't be too concerned and the bench do monitor him via the sports bra monitor!

He needs to stay away from his missus for a month ffs. 🤣👍she's draining all his energy.

[TESCO 70]

Could we play Tzolis in sargent’s position? We all saw what a run of games did for Idah.

[BroadstairsR 2,209]

16 minutes ago, TESCO said:

Could we play Tzolis in sargent’s position? We all saw what a run of games did for Idah.

There's a lot to come from Tzolis. It's not a reputation born out of nothing.

We've seen flashes and the full exposure could be imminent as it seems to be the trend now with City players. First Rashica, then Idah, then Sargent and Sorensen. Could Tzolis be the next to shine?

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[Mengo 825]

16 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Palace team news

Paul Burrell takes over from Back Stairs Billy in goal. Prince Andrew is on the bench. Well in front of it. Camilla likes it at the back and Charles is going for the midfield three of us in this marriage. The Queen is captain and calls "me" at the coin toss. Harry doesn't want to play but will be quite happy to do the press conference after. Meghan is going to play w(h)inger.

All in All its quite a dysfunctional line up.