The ***official*** Farke out poll

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

16 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The only obvious points to come out of this thread are that those who think Deano is doing OK still do.

And those who think he is doing a poor job, and by the OP, worse than DF, still do.

The only certainties at this stage are that DF got us promoted twice and Deano has us in a play off spot at the moment.

And of course, they were both in charge of a Norwich side that was relegated from the EPL.

Yes, no reason why people should change their minds at the moment.

 

Time will tell, and personally I think DS was right to commit that the squad would come back as a "different animal" after the break, it was his chance to establish them as his squad rather than players he inherited (there was pre-season this year but that was disrupted and I don't think all the new players were in by then ?).  So that is the standard he will need to measure up to.

 

If we fail to get promoted this season, it will be fair to point out that Farke also failed to achieve that when he took over.  But DS has already been in place for over a year so I think that's wearing thin.

 

The big concern for me is that our parachute payments are running out and as soon as they are gone, we're at risk of quickly finding ourselves with a squad of pretty average Championship players.  So far I've seen nothing to make me think DS can get us promoted this year, we're not convincing in any games and so I can't see us making it to the top 2, and the problem with the playoffs is that our record against the top 6 is abysmal, so I wouldn't back us even if we stay in the top 6 to the end of the season.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

16 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Well I'm hoping he does do better. As we're 4th going into the halfway point changing him would be a bigger gamble than if we were mid-table or worse. I guess it depends how good you think this squad is. I'm with you and don't think they're as good as the team from 2015. They finished 3rd.

Thankfully I don't have to roll the dice.

Would you think the 2015 team with Deano in charge would still beat this team if they were managed by Alex? I do.

 

Yes I think they would. Which helps in Deano's defence. But I also think Alex would do better with the current squad.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

33 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Yes, no reason why people should change their minds at the moment.

 

Time will tell, and personally I think DS was right to commit that the squad would come back as a "different animal" after the break, it was his chance to establish them as his squad rather than players he inherited (there was pre-season this year but that was disrupted and I don't think all the new players were in by then ?).  So that is the standard he will need to measure up to.

 

If we fail to get promoted this season, it will be fair to point out that Farke also failed to achieve that when he took over.  But DS has already been in place for over a year so I think that's wearing thin.

 

The big concern for me is that our parachute payments are running out and as soon as they are gone, we're at risk of quickly finding ourselves with a squad of pretty average Championship players.  So far I've seen nothing to make me think DS can get us promoted this year, we're not convincing in any games and so I can't see us making it to the top 2, and the problem with the playoffs is that our record against the top 6 is abysmal, so I wouldn't back us even if we stay in the top 6 to the end of the season.

I hope that the likes of AO, Mumba, Tomkinson, Gibbs, Rowe etc wil be challenging soon. Because if we do run out of parachute payments, we are going to be no different than a lot of Championship clubs who have to rely on academy and bargain buys.

[Petriix 2,842]

4 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

If we fail to get promoted this season, it will be fair to point out that Farke also failed to achieve that when he took over.  But DS has already been in place for over a year so I think that's wearing thin.

Farke took over a club in the middle of a major overhaul involving many new players and a totally new philosophy. It took him about a year to make things click by instilling a coherent identity throughout every level of the club.

Dean Smith took over a club just 10 games after its record points total from a season. He's already had a year but, as far as I can tell, has not even worked out his best team or formation yet, let alone got the squad performing consistently. 

Nobody expected Farke to gain promotion in his second season, let alone equal the club's highest points haul. Conversely we started this season as favourites to win the league. It's a ridiculous comparison. 

And, for the record, I was one of the 27 who voted 'shake it all about'. I was disappointed by the transfer business, baffled by the switch to 4-3-3 and thought it was obvious that no manager in the world could have kept that squad up.

Sacking him has proven to be a terrible decision. I'm astounded that anyone still stands by that choice. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 12/12/2022 at 13:28, nutty nigel said:

Just for the avoidance of more rewriting of history...

Thanks for finding this Nutty, I tried find it after posting the other day that there was a poll just before Farke was sacked which had almost as many "outers" as the recent equivalent polls for Smith - couldn't find it so began to doubt my own claim! 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 24/10/2021 at 16:04, TeemuVanBasten said:

An approval rating of 25% is still more popular than Kier Starmer who has an approval rating of 18%

This, for me, is the most depressing post on the thread. Because Kier Starmer is now the prime minister in waiting and if the election was held today they are projecting a majority of up to 341.

I voted out in this poll. 

I hugely regret that. 

But we can't deny that the poll existed, there are a few on here who seem to claim that Farke never lost the fans. This shows that he definitely lost the pinkun forum. I seem to recall the mood being much the same on twitter at the time. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I don't think anyone wanted DF out in the Championship though.

[Barham Blitz 653]

5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

This, for me, is the most depressing post on the thread. Because Kier Starmer is now the prime minister in waiting and if the election was held today they are projecting a majority of up to 341.

I voted out in this poll. 

I hugely regret that. 

But we can't deny that the poll existed, there are a few on here who seem to claim that Farke never lost the fans. This shows that he definitely lost the pinkun forum. I seem to recall the mood being much the same on twitter at the time. 

He hadn't lost this fan.  And I think a lot of the Farke out talk at the time was predicated on the rather blue sky thinking of a Favre or a Knutsen type successor.  If we'd been given the choice of Farke or Smith it might have been a little different even without the benefit of hindsight.

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

16 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

He hadn't lost this fan.  And I think a lot of the Farke out talk at the time was predicated on the rather blue sky thinking of a Favre or a Knutsen type successor.  If we'd been given the choice of Farke or Smith it might have been a little different even without the benefit of hindsight.

The poll was 2 weeks before the Brentford match and at that time Smith was still Villa manager.

I think we all knew Lampard was available, although he hardly had glowing support. There was an assumption that we would end up with a Farke type manager and I was surprised we went for Smith, but there seemed to be a bit of a panic to get someone in during the international break.

I think the people who voted just wanted Farke out despite the uncertainty. There's only so much humiliation you can take as a fan and turning up week in week out and see us make the same old errors.

[hogesar 9,690]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

The poll was 2 weeks before the Brentford match and at that time Smith was still Villa manager.

I think we all knew Lampard was available, although he hardly had glowing support. There was an assumption that we would end up with a Farke type manager and I was surprised we went for Smith, but there seemed to be a bit of a panic to get someone in during the international break.

I think the people who voted just wanted Farke out despite the uncertainty. There's only so much humiliation you can take as a fan and turning up week in week out and see us make the same old errors.

Also, it would be incredibly naive to vote for a manager who's been a huge success at the club to be sacked, but then say "Well no, not if that person was going to be the replacement!" Like any of us know beforehand who it's going to be (How many of us had heard of Farke?!)

[chicken 2,627]

6 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

The poll was 2 weeks before the Brentford match and at that time Smith was still Villa manager.

I think we all knew Lampard was available, although he hardly had glowing support. There was an assumption that we would end up with a Farke type manager and I was surprised we went for Smith, but there seemed to be a bit of a panic to get someone in during the international break.

I think the people who voted just wanted Farke out despite the uncertainty. There's only so much humiliation you can take as a fan and turning up week in week out and see us make the same old errors.

In many senses they are quite similar though, I think that is something often missed. Probably because we have to hate Webber so ignore what he has to say, which sometimes, isn't wrong.

Brentford follow a not so different model to us. Villa are/were a different beast but it's fair to say that Smith clearly believed in the youth their too. In that sense, he fit the mould of a manager/coach willing to work within our model, who will bring youngsters through and give them the time and confidence to become great players for us and possibly to help fund the model in the long run.

If you also add in that there was clearly a change in direction in terms of approach to how we would play in the Premier League, and to be harder to beat - which we knew before the season kicked off, then Smith also fit that additional criteria that one could argue Farke struggled with.

The main issue is always going to be results, then performances. And neither have been consistent this season... the issue is people will say that Smith is no Farke. No one will be though. The same as Alex Neil was no Lambert. The only valid question really is whether a manager can deliver results and whether the fans respond to that or not. 

[Barham Blitz 653]

8 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

The poll was 2 weeks before the Brentford match and at that time Smith was still Villa manager.

I think we all knew Lampard was available, although he hardly had glowing support. There was an assumption that we would end up with a Farke type manager and I was surprised we went for Smith, but there seemed to be a bit of a panic to get someone in during the international break.

I think the people who voted just wanted Farke out despite the uncertainty. There's only so much humiliation you can take as a fan and turning up week in week out and see us make the same old errors.

I get what you are saying although I think you were taking me a little too literally.  I wasn't quite suggesting a show of hands on Smith or Farke prior to any decision.  But the chat on here had some slightly more exotic names bandied around than Dean Smith which could and probably did have some people thinking the grass was greener.  

As it goes I was relieved at the time that Lampard turned us down and thought that Smith might be a more reasonable pair of hands at least out of the apparently available options for the reasons that Chicken has outlined above.  That we ended up with a manager who was unavailable at the point of sacking Farke just highlights the lack of preparation in the whole debacle though.  We seem to be one of the few clubs that doesn't at least get a replacement agreed in principle before pulling the trigger.

But then I didn't want Farke out in the first place and still maintain that was the wrong decision because nobody could have kept that squad up playing in the way that the transfer decisions in that close season required. The fact that Smith didn't do any better - and who knows may have done worse than would otherwise have been the case - and we have lost much of the impetus of the original project rather vindicates that.

Still, we are where we are, and we'll never know what might have been.  Let's hope for a second half of the season resurgence and that Webber is ultimately proved right and that my opinion is completely disapproved.  I'm not so stubborn as to wish otherwise !

[Samwam27 528]

On 14/12/2022 at 17:53, Petriix said:

Farke took over a club in the middle of a major overhaul involving many new players and a totally new philosophy. It took him about a year to make things click by instilling a coherent identity throughout every level of the club.

Dean Smith took over a club just 10 games after its record points total from a season. He's already had a year but, as far as I can tell, has not even worked out his best team or formation yet, let alone got the squad performing consistently. 

Nobody expected Farke to gain promotion in his second season, let alone equal the club's highest points haul. Conversely we started this season as favourites to win the league. It's a ridiculous comparison. 

And, for the record, I was one of the 27 who voted 'shake it all about'. I was disappointed by the transfer business, baffled by the switch to 4-3-3 and thought it was obvious that no manager in the world could have kept that squad up.

Sacking him has proven to be a terrible decision. I'm astounded that anyone still stands by that choice. 

This isn't as a fair comparison.  I agree with the Farke took over statement. We needed a new approach and style, so Farke came in as part of that transition. Smith took over a team looking hopelessly out of place in the Premiership, and then under immediate pressure to get results. Yes, we romped the EFL the year before, but then why did Farke manage that twice and yet twice we looked so hopeless the next season in EPL. Its a chalk and cheese comparison. Smith also inherited a squad with new summer recruitments almost all of who (Sargent aside) turned out to be abysmal (I excluded Gunn as he hardly featured in EPL)

 Regardless of the debacle of sacking Farke after a fighting performance & win, I suspect none of us imagined we'd end up with Smith at that point in time. I'm no longer a Smith fan, and for me it's straight from the horses mouth what's needed and expected. He said we needed to come back a different animal. The next games are crucial and will quickly determine if we can match any of the better teams. If results and performances don't or haven't improved, he should quickly fall on his own sword as he'l have unequivocally failed to deliver what he said he would, 

[nutty nigel 7,539]

On 14/12/2022 at 19:24, keelansgrandad said:

I don't think anyone wanted DF out in the Championship though.

Did they think he'd come back then?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Did they think he'd come back then?

He had a brilliant season before he was sacked. But that was in the Championship. Nobody wanted him out then. Only when we looked poor in the EPL. That is the difference. People want Deano out in the Championship.

[nutty nigel 7,539]

21 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

He had a brilliant season before he was sacked. But that was in the Championship. Nobody wanted him out then. Only when we looked poor in the EPL. That is the difference. People want Deano out in the Championship.

It doesn't work like that though. Perhaps they should have stated they would want him back when we were relegated. But they didn't. In fact if you look at the thread they didn't seem to think he'd get us back up if he stayed. Soooo much revisionism...

Disappointment with current results is always why fans want managers gone it was the same with Farke in his first championship season. Smith is under pressure no doubt. One win in the last six homes in the champs is not good enough. But so far this season he's managed to get a result before the pressure builds to breaking point. I hope he gets that result tomorrow. Others don't.

Pining for the manager that's gone is pointless. I found that out through Grant to Gunn. Football is cyclical and the cycle just carries on regardless.

 

 

[lake district canary 4,537]

7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Pining for the manager that's gone is pointless. I found that out through Grant to Gunn. Football is cyclical and the cycle just carries on regardless.

It's only cyclical if people make it cyclical - and if it is cyclical, it's only because people make it so usually because they lose their nerve. We could have persevered with Gunn, except that the 1-7 - a freak result - kyboshed him. A narrow 1-2 and we might have built from there. We could have persevered with Hughton, a recognised promotion success story. We could have persevered with Alex Neil, he could have done the rebuild in 2017.  We could - and maybe should have - persevered with Farke. 

I know that Delia/MJW wanted a long term manager - which is why they persevered with Worthy for so long - it is not a strange concept, Wenger and Ferguson were not successful every season, but they were trusted in their jobs.  Top clubs, yes, but why should it not work at Norwich.  John Bond was here for seven years, Farke was only given five, despite his proven success at championship level and getting us promoted twice and a record breaking season just before. 

Sacking a manager is too easy imo and often counter-productive.

 

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 

Sacking a manager is too easy imo and often counter-productive.

 

Which is why we need to move on from Farke, get behind Smith and the team and see what happens this season.

I cannot believe Farke would have turned down Bundesliga BMG for another crack at the Championship anyway.

We are where we are. Another chapter in the history of NCFC awaits, probably under new ownership, new hopes and aspirations, possibly a new manager, never a dull moment with us though!

[KeiranShikari 1,422]

lol okay Deano.

[Virtual reality 712]

On 13/12/2022 at 12:44, Flying Dutchman said:

I know it's slightly out of context but this really made me chuckle

Still laughing, chuckles?

[Flying Dutchman 744]

41 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Still laughing, chuckles?

You're a strange one aren't you?

But anyway, it was funny, but it was 5 day's ago. It's wasn't THAT funny.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,742]

😶